Volumes of posts on here about him.

My take is close the door on your way out. 

16 hours ago, Kev56 said:

Volumes of posts on here about him.

My take is close the door on your way out. 

Had we signed De Jong no other midfield thread would have new posts for a whole year and we would be saved.

Actually I think that if we had signed Kounde + De Jong that this forum would have been the happiest place on the web, all pretty gifs and sunshine 24/7 yea yea but now all laugh at us...

Not been on here in a while… just came back to remind everyone.

 

We will never mount another serious title challenge while Jorginho remains a regular starter at the club.

41 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Not been on here in a while… just came back to remind everyone.

 

We will never mount another serious title challenge while Jorginho remains a regular starter at the club.

I think it's only TT that can not see this.

What does he see in this clown to keep picking him, every fan, every commentator,   every ex player/manager sees he's oir biggest problem yet Tuchel keeps picking him and basing our teams around him. 

 

I mean, f**king hell ha ha

 

 

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by dkw

8 minutes ago, dkw said:

What does he see in this clown to keep picking him, l

The fact no one else in our midfield can stay fit or avaliable for the next match says everything.

The biggest mistake Tuchel has made in our midfield is not selling Kante who should have been gone day 1 this summer and pretending it's 2017 when he talks about him being a key player and bringing in a top quality partner to Jorginho.

Jorginho is the only player at the entire club who can be relied up to start in midfield 2 games in a row and we're placing a player without athleticism who relies on his connection and positional understanding with the players around him in a different midfield with whatever random player is fit that particular week next to him.

Jorginho is being failed by asking to be a midfield 1 every week.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

1 minute ago, HazardousChoice said:

The fact no one else in our midfield can stay fit or avaliable for the next match says everything.

The biggest mistake Tuchel has made in our midfield is not selling Kante who should have been gone day 1 this summer and pretending it's 2017 when he talks about him being a key player.

Jorginho is the only player at the entire club who can be relied up to start in midfield 2 games in a row.

I guess it's hard to get injured when you spend 90 minutes strolling around wondering if you left the hob on. 

 

If that clip was five seconds longer we'd also see Mount gifting Southampton the ball and setting off the counter attack. Then half arsing the return run in such a way that he's no help for his team. But yes sure, bash only Jorginho.

He was absolutely crap today too but there is a context to that clip as well.

9 minutes ago, loz said:

I guess it's hard to get injured when you spend 90 minutes strolling around wondering if you left the hob on. 

 

Jorginho's 90 minutes of strolling sees him cover nearly 3x the ground Kante and Kovacic do over the season.

Easy to run your ass off when you get a month rest between games.

I'm not defending Jorginho today he was poor and obviously has physical flaws, I'm not going to act like he's the greatest player on the planet but it's ridiculous to blame him for every issue in our midfield and to ask why he keeps getting picked when he's the only midfielder at the club that doesn't attend the NHS Christmas party.

Ideally you play Jorginho alongside a more physical high energy midfielder but given no one can stay fit what is he supposed to do when no one in the team covers for his weaknesses?

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

I take your point that Jorginho plays because Kante and Kovavic are injured but if you are going to bring 'ideally' into the narrative then ideally you have a far better player than Jorginho who stays fit.  

Put simply he just isn't very good! Not in the English league at least. I find it hugely disappointing that we are going to sit through another season seeing him contribute very little week in week out.

Worst performance I've ever seen from him club or country. He's always been massively over criticised since he's got here but this season he's massively dipped with tonight being atrocious. Yes the lack of a competent midfielder next to him hasn't helped but he's got to do a lot better.

Just now, loz said:

 ideally you have a far better player than Jorginho who stays fit.  

In an ideal world we have 10 Ruud Gullits.  11 actually given how awful Mendy has been.

But we don't and while I think we do need midfield upgrades and would love a better player than Jorginho he's the least of our problems in midfield right now.

A quality midfielder to replace Kante and play alongside Jorginho was a must this summer.  I suspect we'll replace Jorginho himself next year when his contract expires.

7 minutes ago, loz said:

I take your point that Jorginho plays because Kante and Kovavic are injured but if you are going to bring 'ideally' into the narrative then ideally you have a far better player than Jorginho who stays fit.  

Put simply he just isn't very good! Not in the English league at least. I find it hugely disappointing that we are going to sit through another season seeing him contribute very little week in week out.

There's a very specific role and formation required for him to be good. Being one of a midfield 2 is not that. Also being surrounded by RLC and Mount is not that. But let's put that into context - our 3 first choice options to pair with him are out. That being said, no Chelsea midfielder should be completely out of the game when having an opposition player run at them. 

Sindre and Hazardous Voice are correct. It is so obvious we need to provide the right formation and protection for Jorginho to flourish as our defensive midfielder.

.........................Kante

........Kante..Kante..Kante..Kante

.......Kante.... Jorginho.....Kante...

............Kante....Kante...Kante...

 

 

 

 

I think we need a tough tackling technical player in this position now Live Jorgi but he’s just so slow to recovery when you are not playing well go back to basics.

26 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Worst performance I've ever seen from him club or country. He's always been massively over criticised since he's got here but this season he's massively dipped with tonight being atrocious. Yes the lack of a competent midfielder next to him hasn't helped but he's got to do a lot better.

That's the thing, he can't do better, not against that type of press, not in a back 4 formation, he has no physical attributes to avoid getting bullied or protect the defence. There will be times where these problems won't occur and he will stand out and have a good game, but there are too many situations throughout a season where his limitations are exploited. I have always said that we cannot win a Premier League title with a player like Jorginho in the team, he simply cannot play in certain games and certain formations.

38 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Worst performance I've ever seen from him club or country. He's always been massively over criticised since he's got here but this season he's massively dipped with tonight being atrocious. Yes the lack of a competent midfielder next to him hasn't helped but he's got to do a lot better.

I actually thought that RLC did fine, specially in the first 20 minutes before their first goal came. But it's not like we were doing much better without Jorginho, everyone knows that he doesn't have the pace but we conceded goals without him in the lineup too and we don't look better without him.

Our defense shouldn't surrender as soon as Jorginho doesn't block 1 player or 1 ball either, why are we paying everyone from Azpilicueta to Cucurella over 100k per week and they all go missing as soon as any given opponent is trying to attack our box? That's pretty sad.

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I actually thought that RLC did fine, specially in the first 20 minutes before their first goal came. But it's not like we were doing much better without Jorginho, everyone knows that he doesn't have the pace but we conceded goals without him in the lineup too and we don't look better without him.

Our defense shouldn't surrender as soon as Jorginho doesn't block 1 player or 1 ball either, why are we paying everyone from Azpilicueta to Cucurella over 100k per week and they all go missing as soon as any given opponent is trying to attack our box? That's pretty sad.

This is the issue though and people crying that Jorginho starts we literally have nobody else that can play in midfield right now and that's been a recruitment issue, if Jorgi is having a bad game our midfield is generally terrible but we have nobody to replace him with. Before anyone says it, no, Gilmour is not a replacement, he's toss.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

If that clip was five seconds longer we'd also see Mount gifting Southampton the ball and setting off the counter attack. Then half arsing the return run in such a way that he's no help for his team. But yes sure, bash only Jorginho.

He was absolutely crap today too but there is a context to that clip as well.

Losing the ball up high and when you have your back 6 intact is not a problem 

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Our defense shouldn't surrender as soon as Jorginho doesn't block 1 player or 1 ball either, why are we paying everyone from Azpilicueta to Cucurella over 100k per week and they all go missing as soon as any given opponent is trying to attack our box? That's pretty sad.

This part makes me think you probably haven't played competitive football yourself Gol? It's pretty much defensive football 101.

It's pretty basic. For every player that runs past him, every tackle he doesn't win, every block he doesn't make, that usually drags defenders behind him out of position and hugely increases the pressure on them to make decisions. I think now the majority on here understand Jorginho is not a "good" defender. He never has been. He relies 90% of the time on his positioning to make his "defending" work but it's always a high risk strategy because he has no other natural defensive abilities to utilise when his positioning is by-passed.

15 minutes ago, just said:

It's pretty basic. For every player that runs past him, every tackle he doesn't win, every block he doesn't make, that usually drags defenders behind him out of position and hugely increases the pressure on them to make decisions. I think now the majority on here understand Jorginho is not a "good" defender. He never has been. He relies 90% of the time on his positioning to make his "defending" work but it's always a high risk strategy because he has no other natural defensive abilities to utilise when his positioning is by-passed.

You're 100% right with this but I don't think it's some kind of definitive "Jorginho is poor defensively" gotcha

The most important part of defending is positioning, Thiago Silva's pace has gone and he's never been the biggest centre back but he's still elite defensively because he anticipates things and he's positionally sound.  Jorginho can be effective defensively by occupying passing lanes and being in position to stop counter attacks which he actually does well.

What he struggles with is when players run at him or run beyond him like any defensive player would, now Granted Jorginho is less capable at dealing with this than other players because of his lack of pace and physicality but if we're in a position where teams are consistently running at an isolated Jorginho something is very wrong with our team structure and we're not providing him the support he needs.

13 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

You're 100% right with this but I don't think it's some kind of definitive "Jorginho is poor defensively" gotcha

The most important part of defending is positioning, Thiago Silva's pace has gone and he's never been the biggest centre back but he's still elite defensively because he anticipates things and he's positionally sound.  Jorginho can be effective defensively by occupying passing lanes and being in position to stop counter attacks which he actually does well.

What he struggles with is when players run at him or run beyond him like any defensive player would, now Granted Jorginho is less capable at dealing with this than other players because of his lack of pace and physicality but if we're in a position where teams are consistently running at an isolated Jorginho something is very wrong with our team structure and we're not providing him the support he needs.

You basically say we need our attacker to protect our dm. No wonder our attacker cannot score. 

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by Bob stark

36 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Losing the ball up high and when you have your back 6 intact is not a problem 

NVM I saw the replay once again. We had actually 7 players at the back but 3 were Ziyech, ruben and Jorgi so back 4 then. 

11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

You basically say we need our attacker to protect our dm. No wonder our attacker cannot score. 

Given how useless most of them are going forward that may be a better use for them.

I'm not saying we need the whole team set up to protect Jorginho but it's a really basic thing to position yourself in a way that you provide some defensive utility to your midfield partner, whether that's by being compact so teams can't play through you or taking a few steps so you're in position to cut out a potential through ball that would but an opponent running at or in behind your midfield partner.  Kovacic and Kante do it really well. RLC and Gallagher don't.

Leaving Jorginho on his own with no team mate within 15 yards while the opposition run at him isn't doing him any favours but no player would look reasonable in the circumstances Jorginho is finding himself in with his midfield partners vanishing around him.

In the last 3 games he's been asked to play next to Connor and Ruben.  Both have the physicality but neither of them have a defensive bone in their body.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

11 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Given how useless most of them are going forward that may be a better use for them.

I'm not saying we need the whole team set up to protect Jorginho but it's a really basic thing to position yourself in a way that you provide some defensive utility to your midfield parter, whether that's by being compact so teams can't play through you or taking a few steps so you're in position to cut out a potential through ball that would but an opponent running at or in behind your midfield partner.  Kovacic and Kante do it really well. RLC and Gallagher don't.

Leaving Jorginho on his own with no team mate within 15 yards while the opposition run at him isn't doing him any favours but no player would look reasonable in the circumstances Jorginho is finding himself in with his midfield partners vanishing around him.

You basically are saying that Jorgi need to be protected because he can't defend and you are 1000% right. You also say Jorgi need a elite partner to cover his defficiency, you are also 1000% right.

So what is jorgi? Like I said before, Harry winks