8 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I’m not saying it’s because of Jorginho.

Jorginho had over 100 passes yesterday which indicates we had the ball a lot and we at least had it in the middle of the park.

But much like when we played West Ham and Newcastle at the start of the season when Jorginho also had over 100 passes we struggled to break down the opposition.

Something between midfield and attack just isn’t quite clicking at moment.

52 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And that’s the point I’m making, Jorginho has made over 100 passes. That’s a lot of movement to shift us around the pitch and to potentially create openings against the opposition.

When we’re having 70% plus possession we’ve got to start creating better openings in open play. The ball is too often getting into the final third, played across the opposition 18 yard line and then played backwards.

We’re dominating possession but heading into the final ten minutes with a slender leader. Connor Wickham had a good chance that he lofted over the bar towards the end of the game yesterday... that goes in and all the domenance of possession counts for nothing.

 

Think you answered your own question. We lack width, Willian and Hazard both like to cut inside to the congested area, Alonso and Azpi don't get to the byline so any pass into the area is like threading an eye in a needle if the defence is well drilled. On the odd occasions that we get to the line all too often our attackers no longer gamble with a near post run(something Giroud is particularly good at) as the ball rarely comes in.

I thought we had our easiest game against Palace, at their ground, in a long time, and I truly believe that Jorginho is a player who allows for this domination. He has glaring weaknesses, so you need to build your team around him, surround him with positive movement (we haven’t moved well enough off the ball).

In my opinion, based on my understanding of Sarriball, Jorginho, along with Kovacic, are the only ones who tries to do it correctly, using no more than two touches. Many of his passes goes sideways, but that’s not only a way we lure the opponent out of position, it’s also a way to defend and control the game. Once Jorginho gets a couple more targets in front of him, who aren’t impotent offensively, you’ll see the more expansive passing some expected of him (even if that’s not his main role in the first XI).

Jorginho. If Citeh are still interested look to do a deal for KDB.

Discuss.

Edited January 8, 20197 yr by just

1 hour ago, just said:

Jorginho. If Citeh are still interested look to do a deal for KDB.

Discuss.

Not gonna happen is it? If it did KDB would be ideal for Barkley's position.

Sell Jorginho to City and go for Bentancur, Thiago, or Diawara (Diawara was Jorginho's backup at Napoli).

Sorry to use stats to make a point but for me this says it all... he's good but we can do better.

Edited January 8, 20197 yr by the special one

Thought he had an excellent start to the season for us but lately he’s looked more and more like an actual issue.
His defensive contributions are minimal at best and for months now he’s not added much to our offense either.
Moves the ball around a lot but I am seeing more short passes going backwards or sideways.

I think we need some changes in the midfield setup.

 

Jorginho the defensive liability .. 

had the best defensive contribution of the whole team 

higher match rating than CHO .. 

 

Yeah but WhoScored match ratings don't mean sh*t... 

Is it a coincidence that his apparent drop in form is happening at the same time as the team‘s on the while? Maybe, but it could also be used as evidence of Jorginho‘s importance to this system.

He looked very good at the start of the season though. Hopefully he can recover that form.

59 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Yeah but WhoScored match ratings don't mean sh*t... 

As a matter of interest, who's match ratings are acceptable?

Is it any web site that agrees with me? 

Or, seriously, is there a respected match rating site that everyone accepts as objective, fair and accurate?

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

As a matter of interest, who's match ratings are acceptable?

Is it any web site that agrees with me? 

Or, seriously, is there a respected match rating site that everyone accepts as objective, fair and accurate?

Most match ratings are subjective so it's based on an individual's interpretation of a performance. 

Or

It's based on an algorithm of statistics used to measure performance... which is just a load of old sh*t. 

Ok, I just wondered if there was one place that most people respected.  No worries.

Mine are the official post-match ratings.

1 minute ago, Zeta said:

Mine are the official post-match ratings.

But you do know that the numbers higher than 2 can be applied to all players at times, don't you? 

Yesterday Dele Alli  marked him man to man.  Peraphs he isn't in his best moment, but also in Napoli it happened sometimes. He was, is and will be essential for the sarriball 

Whoscored love Hazard, its always good enough for me.

8 hours ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

Jorginho the defensive liability .. 

had the best defensive contribution of the whole team 

higher match rating than CHO .. 

 

Yeah but 3 of those tackles were on his own players.

Jorginho is about as good at tackling as Arjen Robben was. Unfortunately, he is nowhere as good as Robben at the attacking part of the game. And if I ever have to face a firing squad I hope Jorginho and Kovacic are doing the shooting.

Edited January 9, 20197 yr by just

Very disappointing performance - he had a perfect opportunity to go in studs-up on Dele Alli and didn't take it. 

32 minutes ago, just said:

Yeah but 3 of those tackles were on his own players.

Jorginho is about as good at tackling as Arjen Robben was. Unfortunately, he is nowhere as good as Robben at the attacking part of the game. And if I ever have to face a firing squad I hope Jorginho and Kovacic are doing the shooting.

Certainly when combined with the lack of goals from center forward this season, you can see why we are not scoring enough goals right now. The lack of goals from midfield would be less of a problem if we had a striker regularly finding the net. Unless one of our strikers runs into some goal scoring form, or we sign a more productive striker, we are going to need more goals from midfield.

Ray Wilkins was also criticised for his sideways passing by some supporters and journo's, he used to be known as the crab in his Man Utd days, but a managers definition of Wilkins was that he was extremely important to the team.

1 hour ago, Osgood is Good said:

Ray Wilkins was also criticised for his sideways passing by some supporters and journo's, he used to be known as the crab in his Man Utd days, but a managers definition of Wilkins was that he was extremely important to the team.

Like you I am old enough to have seen RW play many, many times. We both know he was a way better, more complete midfielder, than we have seen Jorginho be so far.

Jorginho needs to hit the weights. He looks so lightweight.

I can see what it is we are trying to accomplish with Jorginho in the team, but when we play slow and without confidence, he becomes more of a hindrance than anything else. At the start of the season, you could see what it was about Jorginho that made people think he was so good. It was his one touch quick passing, he was almost passing with every touch. He just kept us ticking, that isn't the case in the last few months though.

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I can see what it is we are trying to accomplish with Jorginho in the team, but when we play slow and without confidence, he becomes more of a hindrance than anything else. At the start of the season, you could see what it was about Jorginho that made people think he was so good. It was his one touch quick passing, he was almost passing with every touch. He just kept us ticking, that isn't the case in the last few months though.

Sadly not.....but he can still be a quality asset when and if we get clicking. Imo he should play a Little further ahead and Kante in Jgorgo's position. Or go 4231 with both at the center to dictate and shield the defence.

16 minutes ago, just said:

Like you I am old enough to have seen RW play many, many times. We both know he was a way better, more complete midfielder, than we have seen Jorginho be so far.

Jorginho needs to hit the weights. He looks so lightweight.

Yes he was a better player, that is not in question, my point being as I stated RW was heavily criticised by supporters and the press for sideways passing, when managers said he was integral to the team. Managers also see Jorginho as integral to a team, but after only 5 months in England he is being criticised for sideways passing by supporters and the press.

Klopp said the other day, Keita (also only 5 months here) is nowhere near the player he was at Leipzig.

We have to give Jorginho a chance to adapt and show his stuff.

21 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I can see what it is we are trying to accomplish with Jorginho in the team, but when we play slow and without confidence, he becomes more of a hindrance than anything else. At the start of the season, you could see what it was about Jorginho that made people think he was so good. It was his one touch quick passing, he was almost passing with every touch. He just kept us ticking, that isn't the case in the last few months though.

Do you not think that the movement in front of him or lack thereof from the 2 midfielders and forwards prevents him from making one touch forward passing.

2 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Do you not think that the movement in front of him or lack thereof from the 2 midfielders and forwards prevents him from making one touch forward passing.

In part, yes. I do think there are times where he can release the ball a bit quicker though. There has been plenty of opportunites where he could have moved the ball on quicker like he was doing at the start of the season. The whole team seems to have slowed down a fair amount compared to then. Either it's a confidence issue or it's under Sarri's instruction.