2 minutes ago, dkw said:

The narrative last night was that it was a much weakened Newcastle side. They had 3 injuries. 

Crazy how biased the media is, take Liverpool as an example they are plagued with injuries but we never hear anything about that from the media.

I had no clue VVD was injured until I bumped into him in The Royal Liverpool University Hospital last week.

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Crazy how biased the media is, take Liverpool as an example they are plagued with injuries but we never hear anything about that from the media.

I had no clue VVD was injured until I bumped into him in The Royal Liverpool University Hospital last week.

The Liverpool Centre back thing makes me laugh, everyone using it to excuse them from the sh*t show they currently are. Yet its not mentioned that they sold centre backs in the summer, and went into this season with VVD, Gomez who is injury prone and Matip who is basically made of glass. It was there own choice to start with only 3 cb`s, 2 of whom are broken.

10 minutes ago, dkw said:

The Liverpool Centre back thing makes me laugh, everyone using it to excuse them from the sh*t show they currently are. Yet its not mentioned that they sold centre backs in the summer, and went into this season with VVD, Gomez who is injury prone and Matip who is basically made of glass. It was there own choice to start with only 3 cb`s, 2 of whom are broken.

Meanwhile Pep was busy signing the 900th defender he's had since taking the City job. 

just watched TT post match interview I think he first on the team sheet

Great game last night, MOTM without doubt. He is all energy and got so much skill in getting out of tight positions. Definitely see a change in that he is getting forward or passing forward more.

Really wish he would score though and I think we should expect more goals from him. Even like 4/5 a season wouldn’t be too much to expect from a player of his caliber. 
 

 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by goose

A  lot of teams play with two DMs that don't score, the issue we have is that our third currently Mount wasted his opportunities.

Yes it would be great if he could score yet the real issue is that our real forward players are not clinical enough.

1 hour ago, andy said:

just watched TT post match interview I think he first on the team sheet

Certainly sounded like it, didn't it !

You just know with this no found belief, and being allowed the freedom to express himself, he is going to score that Hazard/Messi type Worldie, honestly he is.......

A lot of members in the thread calling for Kovacic to start getting goals and assists but I am not concerned with that element at all, Kova every game seems to be linking the midfield with attack. Against Newcastle he played wonderful ball over the top for Tammy which on another day we could've got a penalty from. Against Sheffield he played a similar ball to Chilwell & Werner which were wasted & against Spurs he made numerous runs at their backline but was wasteful himself.

In my view Jorginho needs to start doing more when it comes to linking midfield to attack but if Kova continues in the rich vain of form he is in we won't need to worry about that either.

   

2 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

A lot of members in the thread calling for Kovacic to start getting goals and assists but I am not concerned with that element at all, Kova every game seems to be linking the midfield with attack. Against Newcastle he played wonderful ball over the top for Tammy which on another day we could've got a penalty from. Against Sheffield he played a similar ball to Chilwell & Werner which were wasted & against Spurs he made numerous runs at their backline but was wasteful himself.

In my view Jorginho needs to start doing more when it comes to linking midfield to attack but if Kova continues in the rich vain of form he is in we won't need to worry about that either.

   

Yes Kovacic was unlucky not to get an assist against Newcastle but let's not pretend that regularly setting up goalscoring oppotunities is one of his strengths. In two and a half seasons at Chelsea, in all competitions, he has contributed 2 goals and 7 assists. 

Jorginho has a whopping 3 assists in the same period. 

Combined they have 248 appearances for Chelsea so contribute 1 assist between them every 25 games. 

Yes, there's more to what a player contributes that just goals/assists but you would hope they'd occassionally chip in. Personally, I don't think that contribution is enough. 

@ForeverCarefree

Do you expect more goals and assists from Reece James as well?

11 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

@ForeverCarefree

Do you expect more goals and assists from Reece James as well?

Reece James in 60 appearances (less than a quater of Jorginho and Kovacic combined) has 8 assists for Chelsea. Two less than those players have managed between them. 

He also has 3 goals, which I think matches their output for goals from open play. 

So for a 21 year old with a season and a half of football in the top flight under his belt I would say he's done quite well so far.

Just now, ForeverCarefree said:

Reece James in 60 appearances (less than a quater of Jorginho and Kovacic combined) has 8 assists for Chelsea. Two less than those players have managed between them. 

He also has 3 goals, which I think matches their output for goals from open play. 

So for a 21 year old with a season and a half of football in the top flight under his belt I would say he's done quite well so far.

Is that a yes or a no?

2 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Is that a yes or a no?

If he gets games in the RWB position Tuchel is using, yes, I would expect more assists from him. 

Why, don't you? 

Do you think 10 assists from 250 appearances from Kovacic and Jorginho is good enough? 

On 16/02/2021 at 12:45, Slojo said:

Stats are very misleading though, he should've easily had 2 assists today and he didn't, is that his fault? 

Same with last season, if you watch his highlights last season he didn't get a lot of assists but you'll see about 10 chances he created with throughballs to Abraham and Mount and they weren't finished. He does actually create chances, obviously not as much as the likes of KDB, but he does create. Just unfortunately for him, people aren't finishing his chances. 

Reece James should easily be on the same number of stats as TAA, but again, people don't finish the chances he creates, that's not his fault. 

I'm saying I'd like to see a Kovacic that's improved on his end product. His end product across 3 seasons is woeful. In 100+ games he plays for us,  his goal+assists totals to 8. That is a lot of room for improvement that he can make. 

I want to see a player that has honed his craft so well that he has everything in his locker because Kovacic is that good of a player. 

Don't you want to see Kovacic playing so well that he could get at least 10 goal contributions per season? I'd love to see that and I've seen players like Modric, Pirlo, Xavi improved from above average in their early 20's to world class players in their late 20's. 

Unless you don't want us to win titles and are satisfied just to be in the Top 4, then that's ok too. I just want to see a player playing his best and fulfilling his potential for us instead of seeing opposition players go from strength to strength. 

12 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

If he gets games in the RWB position Tuchel is using, yes, I would expect more assists from him. 

Why, don't you? 

Do you think 10 assists from 250 appearances from Kovacic and Jorginho is good enough? 

So that's a yes. I'm glad you're consistent.

Of course it's not good enough, but there's only so much you can do. If you want to use a stat for a midfielders offensive contribution, use "chances created" or "expected goals", not just the number for assists with a striker like Morata, Higuain or our horrible conversion rate last season. Surely it can't be Kovas responsibility to make his attackers score, can it?

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Vagabond

57 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Yes Kovacic was unlucky not to get an assist against Newcastle but let's not pretend that regularly setting up goalscoring oppotunities is one of his strengths. In two and a half seasons at Chelsea, in all competitions, he has contributed 2 goals and 7 assists. 

Jorginho has a whopping 3 assists in the same period. 

Combined they have 248 appearances for Chelsea so contribute 1 assist between them every 25 games. 

Yes, there's more to what a player contributes that just goals/assists but you would hope they'd occassionally chip in. Personally, I don't think that contribution is enough. 

Overall his numbers are not good enough however what I've see over the last few games does fill me with optimism, I do agree in a system which includes 3 CB's the 2 Number 6's need to be contributing more going forward.

I personally think Kova has been pulling his weight from an attacking standpoint since Tuchel has made the switch to 3 at the back but Jorginho is the one I am more concerned about, he still seems reluctant to try the high risk ball or even a forward pass with any sort of impetus. 

Just now, Imran_CFC said:

Overall his numbers are not good enough however what I've see over the last few games does fill me with optimism, I do agree in a system which includes 3 CB's the 2 Number 6's need to be contributing more going forward.

I personally think Kova has been pulling his weight from an attacking standpoint since Tuchel has made the switch to 3 at the back but Jorginho is the one I am more concerned about, he still seems reluctant to try the high risk ball or even a forward pass with any sort of impetus. 

He's not an attacking midfielder, you can expect the odd goal here and there, but that's it. You should be looking to Mason (and take away his assists from corners same as you took Jorginhos penalties) or Kai for consistent contributions in terms of assists or goals from midfield.

Compare Kova to Verratti, who had 5 assists in a lot stronger team compared to his league last season, yet nobody in PSG is asking him to contribute more in terms of goals. Tuchel recognizes this, I believe.

29 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

He's not an attacking midfielder, you can expect the odd goal here and there, but that's it. You should be looking to Mason (and take away his assists from corners same as you took Jorginhos penalties) or Kai for consistent contributions in terms of assists or goals from midfield.

Compare Kova to Verratti, who had 5 assists in a lot stronger team compared to his league last season, yet nobody in PSG is asking him to contribute more in terms of goals. Tuchel recognizes this, I believe.

I don't think anyone is asking for them to be prolific but with a faltering front line and 3 CB's behind them they should be looking to contribute more. Kova has been getting into exceptional positions in the final third and has not been putting the chances away; against Spurs, Newcastle, Sheffield & Wolves he found himself in the box with the opportunity to get a shot away and he failed to hit the target in each of those scenarios.

Like I said before I am optimistic in regards to Kova because he is doing this regularly and at some point he will get rewarded for his perseverance. 

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Yes Kovacic was unlucky not to get an assist against Newcastle but let's not pretend that regularly setting up goalscoring oppotunities is one of his strengths. In two and a half seasons at Chelsea, in all competitions, he has contributed 2 goals and 7 assists. 

Jorginho has a whopping 3 assists in the same period. 

Combined they have 248 appearances for Chelsea so contribute 1 assist between them every 25 games. 

Yes, there's more to what a player contributes that just goals/assists but you would hope they'd occassionally chip in. Personally, I don't think that contribution is enough. 

Last season Kovacic was creating plenty of chances, obviously again, I'm not saying anywhere to the level of KDB or any top tier creative player in the Premier League. But he can't help it if the chances aren't getting converted. 

Reece James should have well more assists than he already does, he should be on TAA levels, but so many of his crosses don't get converted. It's clear that in the past few years at this club, we've squandered many chances, I think statistically, especially last season, we had the most failed chances in the league. I think that's obvious why also, since Costa left, who have we had to convert the chances? I like Tammy Abraham, but even he misses a lot of chances, especially in the air. 

18 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I don't think anyone is asking for them to be prolific but with a faltering front line and 3 CB's behind them they should be looking to contribute more. Kova has been getting into exceptional positions in the final third and has not been putting the chances away; against Spurs, Newcastle, Sheffield & Wolves he found himself in the box with the opportunity to get a shot away and he failed to hit the target in each of those scenarios.

Like I said before I am optimistic in regards to Kova because he is doing this regularly and at some point he will get rewarded for his perseverance. 

So instead of asking our front line plus attacking midfielders to stop faltering, you are looking to Jorginho and Kovacic to do the job of that faltering front line on top of already controlling the game and connecting defense to attack?

Everybody else seems to be absolved from actually doing their job, because if we don't get enough goals it's because our midfield doesn't contribute goals to our "faltering attackers" and if our defense is comical it's because of our midfield not offering protection to our "faltering defenders". With such a lazy argument I propose the following: let's give the rest of the team a break get Mendy, Kova and Jorgi on the pitch to play and let those three play alone since they are responsible for everything anyways.

14 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

So instead of asking our front line plus attacking midfielders to stop faltering, you are looking to Jorginho and Kovacic to do the job of that faltering front line on top of already controlling the game and connecting defense to attack?

Everybody else seems to be absolved from actually doing their job, because if we don't get enough goals it's because our midfield doesn't contribute goals to our "faltering attackers" and if our defense is comical it's because of our midfield not offering protection to our "faltering defenders". With such a lazy argument I propose the following: let's give the rest of the team a break get Mendy, Kova and Jorgi on the pitch to play and let those three play alone since they are responsible for everything anyways.

Exaggeration really does not help your argument, like I stated above no one is asking the 2 of them to start becoming prolific goal scorers but when you see Kova getting into exceptional positions you would expect him to do better.

We have 3 CB's covering Kova and Jorginho which allows them to be a little more adventurous, again like I said I am not too concerned about Kova because he seems to be linking the midfield to attack incredibly well and his goal contribution will go up if he continues to do so.

This is the Kova thread so obviously we won't be discussing the shortcomings of our faltering attack but it was a point raised due to the Verratti link, if you got a frontline like Mbappe and Neymar banging them in you can get away with a more restricted attacking role as a Central Midfielder.  

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Imran_CFC

3 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Exaggeration really does not help your argument, like I stated above no one is asking the 2 of them to start becoming prolific goal scorers but when you see Kova getting into exceptional positions you would expect him to do better.

We have 3 CB's covering Kova and Jorginho which allows them to be a little more adventurous, again like I said I am not too concerned about Kova because he seems to be linking the midfield to attack incredibly well and his goal contribution will go up if he continues to do so.

This is the Kova thread so obviously we won't be discussing the shortcomings of our faltering attack but it was a point raised due to the Verratti link, if you got a frontline like Mbappe and Neymar banging them in you can get away with a more restricted attacking role as a Central Midfielder.  

Every shot he takes is from the edge of the box with 6 or so opposition players in front of him. I doubt he had more than one chance where he was actually in the box, so you're the one exaggerating when you claim he gets into exceptional positions. He doesn't. You're welcome to prove me wrong here, but imho "he needs to score or assist" is just nitpicking after very good performances for whatever reason.

I don't understand. Are you saying Verratti doesn't have many assists because his attackers are so good, while it's Kovacics fault that he doesn't have many assists despite his attackers missing chances left and right? Looks like very selective logic to me.

I've got no problem with Kovacic or Jorginho not scoring or assisting, all the time they are putting in really good performances like Kova did against Newcastle. Would still expect the odd goal or assist here and there but as long as they keep playing well and others are converting the chances, I have no issue. But let's not pretend the Newcastle performance has been the norm. Both Kova and Jorginho have been very patchy this season and both need to be more consistent.