3 hours ago, SFL82 said:

Looking at villa I’m wondering if JT is having any impact on their unbelievable form and if he is get him across here as a defensive coach in jan

Frank looked pretty upset when someone asked about him looking for a new defensive coach. He just said no in disgust. I think JT is looking to take the next step which is to be a head coach. For me the dynamic is not right betqeen the two. 

1 hour ago, haviet1 said:

 

Lamp deserves at least half a season with this new team/players to get things going. 

What people are worried about, which is very valid, is the lack of improvement on the defensive front.

Yep I understand that and I’m pissed off it keeps happening too. Southampton’s late equaliser was a kick in the teeth.

But it is going to take patience and more than one window to repair the damage of years of poor investment. Lampard needs to improve too but that’s not Surprising given he’s only been a manager for just over two years.

If it goes tits up we all know what will happen to Frank but it is too early to push the panic button 

33 minutes ago, evissy said:

Frank looked pretty upset when someone asked about him looking for a new defensive coach. He just said no in disgust. I think JT is looking to take the next step which is to be a head coach. For me the dynamic is not right betqeen the two. 

JT.... True Legend of the club in the rel sense of the word. 

Left the club and stepped down a division rather than accept any Premier league offers and risk playing against Chelsea. 

57 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

So you can safely sell all your midfielders even though you play well over 50 to 60 games. Shall we sell every CB we have then because Silva is better than every CB at the club, it makes no sense. You would only have Silva playing every game.

Man City did extend his contract, why has he made 2 starts and been involved in all 4 league games. Just because he doesnt start every game for City who have a better player in Rodri doesn't mean he wont improve Chelsea. City are better than Chelsea and have the best squad in english football if not Europe. I cant even remember the original point but I have no doubt Fernandinho would improve this current Chelsea team because he is exactly what we need. Would I take Fernandinho over Jorginho for this season, hell yeah but then I'm getting old and I like my dms to be able to defend.

Jorginho played more minutes than Fernandinho this season but he's better statistically in both offense and defense, you overrate Fernandinho a lot...

Contrary to some here that prefer to treat Lampard with kids' gloves and turn a blind eye to some of his faults & weaknesses, I believe a little bit of criticism and tough questioning will be good for Lampard; for his growth and development as a MANAGER.

 

2) Lampard must take some of the blame

Timo Werner and Kai Havertz were outstanding, tormenting Southampton’s defence and scoring their first goals in the Premier League. Yet it was not enough to cover up for a malfunctioning defence. Once again Chelsea were a mess without the ball and, although Frank Lampard spoke about individual errors after his side’s draw with Southampton, it is hard not to wonder if they are down to structural failings. It is too easy to look at isolated moments such as the mistakes from Kurt Zouma and Kepa Arrizabalaga that gifted Che Adams a goal. If the slips keep happening the manager has to accept some blame. Southampton dominated the second half, outrunning Chelsea and capitalising on poor positioning from Jorginho and N’Golo Kanté. Lampard has to show that he can organise his team. Jacob Steinberg

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/19/premier-league-10-talking-points-from-the-weekends-action

 

9 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

I personally think from a systematic perspective we look a lot more solid defensively in comparison to last season, we don't appear hugely open in the transition and we have developed as a team defending set pieces, so far majority of the goals we have conceded have been huge individual errors.

1 Goal Brighton- That goal was completely on Kepa, no way he should be letting that in

2 Goals against Liverpool- 1 gifted by Kepa and the 2nd James losing Mane at the backpost, both goals conceded after a Christensen brainfart.

3 goals against West Brom- 1st goal Alonso plays the ball back into a dangerous area and James is caught too far upfield, 2nd goal Silva slips and the third goal James is caught sleeping whilst the defense stepped up.

3 Goals against Southampton- Kai caught on the ball and defense falls asleep, don't even get me started on the 2nd goal and the 3rd goal once again team switches off after clearing the first ball.

I think so far this season the worst football we've played is probably the 2nd half against Southampton, this is understandable considering we had a large number of players away on International duty midweek and our fitness levels were at a lower level in comparison to Southampton's. The disappointing thing in this was Lampard didn't ring the changes earlier to freshen up the team, whilst watching the game I was confident he was going to bring on Giroud and ask the team to go long as we kept on getting caught playing out. Unsure why Kova was not in the squad as we badly needed him with a shift to a 4-3-3 not bring a little control in the middle of the park.

I've heard people state if we had Mendy and Silva we would've won that game and I agree but at the same time I think had we not had the International break even with the same players we wouldve won that game. Can someone tell FIFA that nobody gives a f**k about International football certainly not during the most congested footballing Calendar ever.     

Good post

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Frank looked pretty upset when someone asked about him looking for a new defensive coach. He just said no in disgust. I think JT is looking to take the next step which is to be a head coach. For me the dynamic is not right betqeen the two. 

Yea could be as JT was always his captain, I see Terry here in the future for sure not sure how fluid and attacking his teams would be, although you get plenty of managers who were defenders JT has a mindset of organisation his teams likely wouldn’t be as fun as franks to watch. 
 

I feel that creative players make those flowing teams and we have to be fair seen some brilliant attacking football at times we couldn’t buy a goal before frank came in, but it’s almost as if all the focus is there. 
 

If he doesn’t want a new defensive coach I’d have to ask why and the answer is probably loyalty over good sense, we are close to being a very good team we just need that defensive click 

50 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

Contrary to some here that prefer to treat Lampard with kids' gloves and turn a blind eye to some of his faults & weaknesses, I believe a little bit of criticism and tough questioning will be good for Lampard; for his growth and development as a MANAGER.

 

Literally no one is saying he has no faults or weakness, or that he is immune to criticism. 

7 minutes ago, dkw said:

Literally no one is saying he has no faults or weakness, or that he is immune to criticism. 

 

Really? Try to say something bad/negative about Frank and see what happens. 

42 minutes ago, SFL82 said:

Yea could be as JT was always his captain, I see Terry here in the future for sure not sure how fluid and attacking his teams would be, although you get plenty of managers who were defenders JT has a mindset of organisation his teams likely wouldn’t be as fun as franks to watch. 
 

I feel that creative players make those flowing teams and we have to be fair seen some brilliant attacking football at times we couldn’t buy a goal before frank came in, but it’s almost as if all the focus is there. 
 

If he doesn’t want a new defensive coach I’d have to ask why and the answer is probably loyalty over good sense, we are close to being a very good team we just need that defensive click 

The thing is that a new defensive coach was hired this summer, and from where I stand that’s showing already in how we defend set pieces. Individual mistakes are still costing us, but as a team we have received the second lest number of shots.

 

1 minute ago, haviet1 said:

 

Really? Try to say something bad/negative about Frank and see what happens. 

What happens ? we tell you to be patient, maybe call you a w**ker, and then have a cup of tea.

2 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

Really? Try to say something bad/negative about Frank and see what happens. 

Show me anyone that has said your not allowed to point out Frank's faults? And I don't mean a response to someone demanding hs sacked.

There's plenty of posts jumping to his defense as soon as a finger is point in his direction, all you have to do is look. 

18 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

There's plenty of posts jumping to his defense as soon as a finger is point in his direction, all you have to do is look. 

That's part of the discussion, equally if someone said Lamps is perfect and we should never sack him no matter how what, there would be oppositon to that from most people.

There's a lot of different aspects to managing. Lampard clearly does some parts of the job well, assisted by abramovitch  and that is getting quality players to the club. Havertz and Werner were pretty good scores by any standard.

Equally he's brought young players through in a way no coach has since at least going back to Raneri (as far back as I easily recall)

Those are things to do with personality as opposed to the actual science and art of winning matches.

Its crystal crystal clear that the defence has been crap from the start of last season to last week.

Despite that the club priortised attack in the transfer window. That had to be a club decision no doubt influenced by both Lampard and Abramovitch.

But nevertheless its Lampard's job to make the defence work

From where I sit, and however frustrating it is to watch a game at 3:00 pm on saturday its a lot more frustrating when its 3:00 am in Sydney, Lampard has tried everything except consistency. If we have 4 central defenders, although a lot of last season only 3 were available, for 2 positions that's 6 different combos and the only one that wasn't tried from memory was Rudigier and Tomori.  

But no 2 defenders were ever settled on. Equally the treatment of Rudigier, Tomori and Christenson has been inconsistent. Tomori was played until injured, and he made mistakes but was quick. Rudigier was played consistently on his return from injury but has been frozen out this season (new defensive coach?) Christenson has never been regarded as a certainty in his entire time at Chelsea but is currently back in favour. You could easily criticise the manager for not settling on a back two and sticking with them.

Equally James clearly is not very good defensively yet. I personally think Moses was a better defensive player than James. So that only leaves Azpi who is ageing for RB.

And that's before we get to the GK. So my view is Frank needs to settle on a back four and stick with them until one of them clearly is not up to the job then  change for next in line and stick with them. If Rudiger is frozen out then move him on. A starter for Germany is too valuable to leave in the reserves all season.

I wonder. Are some of our fans willing to consider Lamps leaving right away motivated by the inconstancy in City and VVD needing surgery?

Do they smell blood in the water and want a Diego Simeone appointed in an effort to put us ahead of the rest of pool and City drop the ball?

Now VVD is out I think City will win the league quite comfortably this year, squad is just too dam good. Laporte and Aguero back from injuries and they have KDB.

3 hours ago, haviet1 said:

There's plenty of posts jumping to his defense as soon as a finger is point in his direction, all you have to do is look. 

You have to expect that most Chelsea fans will defend Frank because he's a club legend. We also have a strong community here that gives managers time, and this is a wacky period right now. It's not just Frank who's slipping up, it's every other gaffer in the league. Covid and the restart has had a huge effect on the performances and expectations. 

On top of that, Frank has had to deal with a lot of injuries and ineligibilities. And this side needs time to gel, like it or not, he needs more time to get things going. Nobody can just sign that many players in key areas and get the ball rolling instantly, this is a project. 

6 hours ago, ozboy said:

 

Equally James clearly is not very good defensively yet. I personally think Moses was a better defensive player than James. So that only leaves Azpi who is ageing for RB.

 

Are you high? 

8 hours ago, haviet1 said:

There's plenty of posts jumping to his defense as soon as a finger is point in his direction, all you have to do is look. 

There's a big difference between jumping to his defence (alternatively known as having a different opinion  to you  which us allowed) and your statements. 

18 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I agree about Frank learning and hopefully now he has seen Werner playing centrally that will happen with Tammy and Giroud on the bench.

I'm not sure on Kante, so often he is so far advanced up the pitch it is as though we are playing with five forwards, is that intentional or just indiscipline?

 

 

Without access to the dressing room we just don't know about Kante. It wouldn't surprise me if he was given a bit more of a free role than Jorginho. He has a better engine than Jorginho who seems to lose pace late in games.

I am just starting to ask questions about Frank but he has often come back with a stern response on the pitch. Lets get Silva and Mendy back on the pitch. Lets have a steady run of games without international breaks and see where we are after 10 games. It hasn't gone as well as it could have but nearly all the other top teams are having a strange start to the season so we are still in with a serious challenge. 

Never ceases to amaze me how some of our fans have less patience than a starving cat at 20 past tea-time, and turn faster than milk left in the sun in August.

Probably something to do with modern society and the need for everyone to get exactly what they want, exactly when they want it, encased in gold wrapping paper and providing superfast broadband to their 3-week old telephone.

I blame the parents.

And Kenyon.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12106791/why-cant-frank-lampard-fix-chelseas-leaky-defence

Quote

 

This points to individual mistakes. Seven of the nine goals Chelsea have conceded this season have been down to individual mistakes in some form: Sadio Mane's first in Liverpool's 2-0 win on September 20 and Jannik Vestegaard's late equaliser on Saturday the only two that have not.

Lampard is fully aware, and wants game management, something that seems to have been abandoned across the Premier League this season.

"They are mistakes that concern you. [The second goal] was a situation that we should have clearly dealt with in a much better and simpler terms. If you are going to concede those kind of goals, then it doesn't matter how well you play in periods of games, it is something that we can't have in our game.

 

Where do individual mistakes come from? Not having a clear one formation, not having a set core of players in that clear formation, not having time to train, not having played together as a group for that long, lacking individual talent in key areas...I personally think it is a bit of everything. One thing Frank should fix is the formation. I think he should just play one and hone it to perfection. He would sacrifice the flexibility but after that every player knows exactly what to do on the pitch game in game out. Again I come back to the idea that Frank maybe expects many of our players to be able to handle all this as he could himself back in the day when he was playing. Not all our guys are franklampards. Intelligent, quick learners, eager to always learn more and so on. We have a lot of mere mortals in our side....Anyway I feel Mendy and Silva can bring that solidity to our side. They have only featured in one game together. It was a 4-0 trashing.. 

I agree 100% about the need of better assistant. Everybody loves Jodi and that's exactly what is wrong with us. Everybody loves everybody in the club rn. There is no respect, no hierarchy, nada. 

Swap Morris and Lampard positions and there would be no difference. Having them both is like having Kepa and Willy. We need our Mendy on the bench. Preferably  a guy with knowledge about defense. 

Edited October 20, 20205 yr by Droopy

4 minutes ago, Droopy said:

I agree 100% about the need of better assistant. Everybody loves Jodi and that's exactly what is wrong with us. Everybody loves everybody in the club rn. There is no respect, no hierarchy, nada. 

Swap Morris and Lampard positions and there would be no difference. Having them both is like having Kepa and Willy. We need our Mendy on the bench. Preferably  a guy with knowledge about defense. 

I wouldn't be that fast to pull that trigger, we have young players and Jody has been working well with the youth so he has a good role during this transition.