2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Not great for Broja either then.

Maybe will be Mount, Sterling and Pulisic on Sunday then, or perhaps Ziyech or Gallagher?

Borja is also a  goner unless he can adapt playing on the wing.

Against Spurs? Who knows just no more Mount and Kai on the wing please. 

Also let's just offer alonso <> depay trade to Barcelona. 

17 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I still somewhat believe that, but take a look at the profile of players. 

Salah, Dias, Foden, Mahrez, B.Silva are all able to take players on individually. They don't require assistance from others, they have unique creative/attacking characteristics to be independent. We can't say that about anyone bar Sterling. This is what Tuchel is looking for and why its important to get a DoF in before we make any more wrong attacking signings. 

At the moment nothing has changed my mind about Havertz and he's likely the first attacker gone next summer. 

Not sure I buy this. Grealish & Mahrez have struggled under Pep because they are individualistic, and would rather do it alone than go with the collective. Grealish has said recently that Pep wants him to keep it simple, that is why you don’t see the step overs & endless dribbles anymore; hard to change your ways in your late 20s. I think what sticks out with what both managers want is young fresh legs, willing pressers and runners. Pep has the 6 seconds rule, and Klopp has gegenpressing.

These players you have mentioned are not a Hazard or a Messi who you can give the ball, and they would dribble 2-3 players and smack one in the top corner. Pep has always said he will get you to the position/area in the pitch you need to be, the finishing is up to you. So you will see him working on patterns & movements, working individually with players on body shape when receiving the ball (there are videos online of him doing with Sane & Sterling, and even in game pulling players aside to tell them the exact area they need to be on the pitch. These players were not bought as polished articles (bar Grealish & Arteta), but needed a lot of polishing. Klopp also is renowned for polishing turds. If you watch Liverpool out of possession in their half, they will have Diaz & Salah on the half turn on the halfway line. Once they regain possession, the ball is launched immediatelyto the flanks where they are positioned. You now have a FB/CB at a disadvantage facing a pacy winger running at him with the ball, with his back to goal. Those quick transitions & switches are key to their success. With Tuchel he wants his players to play their way out of their own half. 

21 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Tbf most of them were sh*t and unfit for purpose before we signed them.  It isn't like we signed a bunch of stars that flopped.  Most of them had never played at the highest level prior to signing for us and the one that had (Lukaku) flopped at that level previously.

Werner - Looked good in the worst defensive league in Europe.

Havertz - Looked good in the worst defensive league in Europe.

Pulisic - looked sh*t in the worst defensive league on Europe.

Ziyech - played in the Dutch league.

It's not like these guys were top Premier league performers before us.  They just don't have the quality for this level it isn't something Tuchel or any manager can fix.

Exactly, bar Rudiger the same players who were good under Lamaprd are good for Tuchel. The same players who were poor under Lampard are poor under Tuchel.

Havertz was ass under Lampard as well as Tuchel.

 

7 hours ago, ducavis said:

Not sure I buy this. Grealish & Mahrez have struggled under Pep because they are individualistic, and would rather do it alone than go with the collective. Grealish has said recently that Pep wants him to keep it simple, that is why you don’t see the step overs & endless dribbles anymore; hard to change your ways in your late 20s. I think what sticks out with what both managers want is young fresh legs, willing pressers and runners. Pep has the 6 seconds rule, and Klopp has gegenpressing.

These players you have mentioned are not a Hazard or a Messi who you can give the ball, and they would dribble 2-3 players and smack one in the top corner. Pep has always said he will get you to the position/area in the pitch you need to be, the finishing is up to you. So you will see him working on patterns & movements, working individually with players on body shape when receiving the ball (there are videos online of him doing with Sane & Sterling, and even in game pulling players aside to tell them the exact area they need to be on the pitch. These players were not bought as polished articles (bar Grealish & Arteta), but needed a lot of polishing. Klopp also is renowned for polishing turds. If you watch Liverpool out of possession in their half, they will have Diaz & Salah on the half turn on the halfway line. Once they regain possession, the ball is launched immediatelyto the flanks where they are positioned. You now have a FB/CB at a disadvantage facing a pacy winger running at him with the ball, with his back to goal. Those quick transitions & switches are key to their success. With Tuchel he wants his players to play their way out of their own half. 

Mahrez struggling? Mahrez was City's best player last season according to most City fans. 

 

11 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Exactly, bar Rudiger the same players who were good under Lamaprd are good for Tuchel. The same players who were poor under Lampard are poor under Tuchel.

Havertz was ass under Lampard as well as Tuchel.

 

Haven't seen a player live so long off of one goal as Kai

10 minutes ago, Evenflow20 said:

Haven't seen a player live so long off of one goal as Kai

Torres in the semi? sh*t before and sh*t after? And quite a lot sh*t in between?

Havertz isn't a centre-forward. TT is shoe- horning him in as a temporary "best fit" stop gap until he finds someone who is. Not ideal, but there you go.

I can't believe Torres still gets sh*t on here, anyone want to throw in either Malouda or Mikel to balance it out a bit like the old days!

8 minutes ago, Mod said:

I can't believe Torres still gets sh*t on here, anyone want to throw in either Malouda or Mikel to balance it out a bit like the old days!

Never thought I would see the day @just gives Torres, or anyone for that matter, more stick than David Luiz. Is very unsettling @Mod

18 minutes ago, Mod said:

I can't believe Torres still gets sh*t on here, anyone want to throw in either Malouda or Mikel to balance it out a bit like the old days!

Mikel, really? The man who invented the "Jorginho role"?

@PloKoon13 and @Nibs went let that one go past Mod.

Mikel might have been a world-class holding mid, but his pointing game was years behind Jorginho:

7 hours ago, just said:

Torres in the semi? sh*t before and sh*t after? And quite a lot sh*t in between?

Havertz isn't a centre-forward. TT is shoe- horning him in as a temporary "best fit" stop gap until he finds someone who is. Not ideal, but there you go.

Where would you played him out of interest?

He's been tried in midfield, 10, wing, inverted winger, second striker and centre forward for us and personally I don't think he's been good anywhere.

15 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Where would you played him out of interest?

He's been tried in midfield, 10, wing, inverted winger, second striker and centre forward for us and personally I don't think he's been good anywhere.

I think in a more complete system I do actually think as a Lampard type of attacking midfielder,  arriving late, he could be very good. I think not only do we not play him in his best position,  I don't think that we tap into his best attributes and I don't think that the players around him have helped him either.

On 13/08/2022 at 06:26, ducavis said:

Not sure I buy this. Grealish & Mahrez have struggled under Pep because they are individualistic, and would rather do it alone than go with the collective. Grealish has said recently that Pep wants him to keep it simple, that is why you don’t see the step overs & endless dribbles anymore; hard to change your ways in your late 20s. I think what sticks out with what both managers want is young fresh legs, willing pressers and runners. Pep has the 6 seconds rule, and Klopp has gegenpressing.

These players you have mentioned are not a Hazard or a Messi who you can give the ball, and they would dribble 2-3 players and smack one in the top corner. Pep has always said he will get you to the position/area in the pitch you need to be, the finishing is up to you. So you will see him working on patterns & movements, working individually with players on body shape when receiving the ball (there are videos online of him doing with Sane & Sterling, and even in game pulling players aside to tell them the exact area they need to be on the pitch. These players were not bought as polished articles (bar Grealish & Arteta), but needed a lot of polishing. Klopp also is renowned for polishing turds. If you watch Liverpool out of possession in their half, they will have Diaz & Salah on the half turn on the halfway line. Once they regain possession, the ball is launched immediatelyto the flanks where they are positioned. You now have a FB/CB at a disadvantage facing a pacy winger running at him with the ball, with his back to goal. Those quick transitions & switches are key to their success. With Tuchel he wants his players to play their way out of their own half. 

If you want to see Peps appreciation of a player, check 2010 video when pep meets up with Baggio, after the CL game against Arsenal , Messi hatrick, he just gushes like an excited fan, probably never told him ever how to play…

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I think in a more complete system I do actually think as a Lampard type of attacking midfielder,  arriving late, he could be very good. I think not only do we not play him in his best position,  I don't think that we tap into his best attributes and I don't think that the players around him have helped him either.

Lampard tried that though. It sounds fine in theory but he's not good there either. Not good enough of a passer to be in midfield, not up to the physical battle of a Premier League midfield and I could go on and on.

https://www.givemesport.com/1628321-chelsea-news-fan-creates-video-of-kai-havertzs-disasterclass-in-21-defeat-vs-wolves

https://talksport.com/football/803656/chelsea-nine-men-everton-timo-werner-kai-havertz/

https://www.givemesport.com/1640401-chelsea-explaining-kai-havertz-video-shows-where-frank-lampard-is-going-wrong

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/failure-to-fix-werner-havertz-could-cost-lampard-chelsea-job/vln4ymheo3l01eupno1p5qoyt

https://talksport.com/football/821201/kai-havertz-academy-chelsea-frank-lampard-sack/

There are just some examples of articles on Havertz when Lampard was here. He didn't perform back then either with different systems and different players and a different manager.

Bundesliga is a kindergarden compared to the Premier League. We've seen it a million times that players that look like stars there can't cut it here.

Edited August 14, 20223 yr by Sindre

Time for this lad to step up and get his season underway today

11 hours ago, just said:

Mikel, really? The man who invented the "Jorginho role"?

@PloKoon13 and @Nibs went let that one go past Mod.

I liked them both Just, but you remember how it was!

Torres couldn’t find the net at first cause Malouda never passed the ball to him and every time we lost, Mikel would be public enemy number 1, even if he was just a sub 

36 minutes ago, Mod said:

I liked them both Just, but you remember how it was!

Torres couldn’t find the net at first cause Malouda never passed the ball to him and every time we lost, Mikel would be public enemy number 1, even if he was just a sub 

You could have added Haventgotter to your list as well Mod.

 

As in, Haventgotter........ Kalou.

 

I think he’ll go to Bayern next season 

The thing about havertz, he seems to come alive in the big games, especially the cups near the final stages. He obviously won us the CL with that goal but he was really good against Real in both semis. Won us the CWC too. Was good in the carabao cup final even without scoring. He may never be consistent enough for the league unfortunately, but with a striker alongside him he would contribute more im sure.

Also Torres was generally bad for us, but he was a huge part of us winning the Europa League, and obviously scored the goal that confirmed our place in the CL final the year before. £50m not exactly down the drain.

He is in the Muller category, he's good when wandering and getting into unpredictable positions. 

Pin him uptop and his skillset doesn't suit how a false 9 plays

5 hours ago, Sindre said:

Lampard tried that though. It sounds fine in theory but he's not good there either. Not good enough of a passer to be in midfield, not up to the physical battle of a Premier League midfield and I could go on and on.

https://www.givemesport.com/1628321-chelsea-news-fan-creates-video-of-kai-havertzs-disasterclass-in-21-defeat-vs-wolves

https://talksport.com/football/803656/chelsea-nine-men-everton-timo-werner-kai-havertz/

https://www.givemesport.com/1640401-chelsea-explaining-kai-havertz-video-shows-where-frank-lampard-is-going-wrong

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/failure-to-fix-werner-havertz-could-cost-lampard-chelsea-job/vln4ymheo3l01eupno1p5qoyt

https://talksport.com/football/821201/kai-havertz-academy-chelsea-frank-lampard-sack/

There are just some examples of articles on Havertz when Lampard was here. He didn't perform back then either with different systems and different players and a different manager.

Bundesliga is a kindergarden compared to the Premier League. We've seen it a million times that players that look like stars there can't cut it here.

True, but wasn't this atca time of Covid and injuries. I think he has matured a bit now and could work in the right system. Ww have enough players failing in their favoured positions,  I just think that we shouldn't really judge Havertz until he has had a good run in his proper position. 

I say Dele Alli category. 

 

12 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I say Dele Alli category. 

 

Dele Alli is a lazy feck tho. 

How is this guy a 'generational talent' again?