1 minute ago, coco said:

Two MOTM on the trot, then 3 months off, then a bad 45 minutes on his return.  i bet you was dying for that 45 minutes to come around, just so you could say 'told you not to hype him'.

Don't you understand people getting excited by young players breaking into the team ? yes some of us do get over zealous, but so what, why should it be a problem for you ? I just dont get it ?

I already said that this time period is very difficult and that our squad isn't in full form so nobody should be so harsh to judge our players, I haven't seen any other team playing flawlessly either.

We're getting into a huge winning streak but some still prefer to moan about silly things, Billy made a few poor passes which is bound to happen he's just getting started, he's come very far already and he has the very right to make a mistake at this point in time but some people just don't get it, they prefer to whine and be toxic no matter what...Just wait till CHO plays next time I guarantee you that someone will be super picky and cheeky about every little thing...

 

I think today was just the inevitable reality check after we all got a bit overexcited. His credentials as a potential Chelsea legend in the making are very much intact.

I don't think him getting hooked off is a problem under Lamps, there will be honest conversations and an arm around him. Got to make mistakes to learn from them.

14 minutes ago, Dean said:

I think today was just the inevitable reality check after we all got a bit overexcited. 

If he has a game like this in his actual position then I'd agree.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

If he has a game like this in his actual position then I'd agree.

What a stupid argument, being out of position doesnt excuse a poor performance with some really bad passing. It's not like he was playing a completely unknown position like centre back. 

Edited June 28, 20206 yr by dkw

6 minutes ago, dkw said:

What a stupid argument, being out of position doesnt excuse a poor performance with done really bad passing. It's not like he was playing a completely unknown position like centre back. 

Ofcourse it doesn't but it also wasn't a "reality check" either, play Mount infront of the back four he's still technically in midfield but it's a world away to what he's been training as since a boy. Any specialist regista in a further advanced position where their passing angles and way they scan their surroundings completely different to what he's used too as was the case for Billy today and they will struggle, even finished article one's let alone a teenager.

It's no coincidence that he's been amazing playing the deeper role (Everton, Liverpool, Hull) while bang average playing in LCM (today, United in the cup), it's also no coincidence our and his best moment in the first half came when he dropped back (due to Kante bombing forward) which allowed him to break the lines, a moment which lead to that Pulisic chance.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

If he has a game like this in his actual position then I'd agree.

If you think he was played out of position and this was the problem, presumably Lampard would be aware of this too and consider switching things around. Yet he opted to take him off instead, which to me suggests Billy just wasn’t quite up to it today. 

1 hour ago, coco said:

Two MOTM on the trot, then 3 months off, then a bad 45 minutes on his return.  i bet you was dying for that 45 minutes to come around, just so you could say 'told you not to hype him'.

Don't you understand people getting excited by young players breaking into the team ? yes some of us do get over zealous, but so what, why should it be a problem for you ? I just dont get it ?

I understand where Brutos is coming from, I've seen it time and time again where a youngster will put in an amazing performance and then the hype kills them, Arsenal do it to their players all the time. That's where it can be a problem. But I can only speak for myself when I say I wasn't begging for this at all, but it really didn't bother me that much. A poor 45 minutes is nothing, he has so much time to improve his game. Plus he played in a position he isn't that comfortable with, I think I remember him playing in that same position against United in the cup and he really struggled then, he's better when he's in the middle like he was against Liverpool and Everton. 

40 minutes ago, dkw said:

What a stupid argument, being out of position doesnt excuse a poor performance with some really bad passing. It's not like he was playing a completely unknown position like centre back. 

I wouldn't say it's a stupid argument. He didn't play that well in the United game also when he was in that position. I don't think it's playing to his strengths, although yes, it doesn't excuse the sloppy play. But it's not like United or Leicester are bum sides either, he's playing against top quality at 18/19, so a bad 45 minutes is nothing, but I hope he doesn't play in that position again. 

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I understand where Brutos is coming from, I've seen it time and time again where a youngster will put in an amazing performance and then the hype kills them, Arsenal do it to their players all the time. That's where it can be a problem. But I can only speak for myself when I say I wasn't begging for this at all, but it really didn't bother me that much. A poor 45 minutes is nothing, he has so much time to improve his game. Plus he played in a position he isn't that comfortable with, I think I remember him playing in that same position against United in the cup and he really struggled then, he's better when he's in the middle like he was against Liverpool and Everton. 

I'm not convinced it's the "hype" that kills players, if they struggle to mentally cope with it then odds are something will derail them at some point anyway so such attention is merely speeding up the inevitable. Rooney, CR7, Fabregas, Hazard, KDB, Courtois were all examples of youngsters being hyped to extremes and turning out just fine.

16 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I understand where Brutos is coming from, I've seen it time and time again where a youngster will put in an amazing performance and then the hype kills them,

Do you really believe that if we hype players up on a forum that it 'kills' them ? that's some voodoo sh*t right there.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

What a stupid argument, being out of position doesnt excuse a poor performance with some really bad passing. It's not like he was playing a completely unknown position like centre back. 

I said the same in the match thread, playing out of position is no excuse for bad pass selection. Billy was attempting some very high risk passes when he didn't need to, its just raw youth, carefree, his attitude is just how we would want it to be.

5 minutes ago, coco said:

Do you really believe that if we hype players up on a forum that it 'kills' them ? that's some voodoo sh*t right there.

I don't think the hype is the thing but the out of wack expectations. Billy is still young and still learning. The fans expectations after two games becomes that he is the next Lampard and then he plays a bad game and all of a sudden people can start piling on. When really he is young and he will have bad games. That's how you learn.

Some are more resilient than others but the pile on effects your confidence and performance. Players who soend more time on socials these days I would say are more likely to be affected by that.

5 minutes ago, coco said:

Do you really believe that if we hype players up on a forum that it 'kills' them ? that's some voodoo sh*t right there.

Ok, if that's what you think my point is sure. 

Hype spreads everywhere, from social media, to the media, and it's definitely effected youngsters in the past, particularly in England. I think it's better that everyone keep an open mind and don't get their hopes up whenever one of their youth players doesn't meet their expectations. 

If you want to see what I'm talking about, go search "Billy Gilmour" in twitter. 

56 minutes ago, Argo said:

Ofcourse it doesn't but it also wasn't a "reality check" either, play Mount infront of the back four he's still technically in midfield but it's a world away to what he's been training as since a boy. Any specialist regista in a further advanced position where their passing angles and way they scan their surroundings completely different to what he's used too as was the case for Billy today and they will struggle, even finished article one's let alone a teenager.

It's no coincidence that he's been amazing playing the deeper role (Everton, Liverpool, Hull) while bang average playing in LCM (today, United in the cup), it's also no coincidence our and his best moment in the first half came when he dropped back (due to Kante bombing forward) which allowed him to break the lines, a moment which lead to that Pulisic chance.

Such a small sample size though. 20 mins against hull, 45 minutes against liverpool, until jorginho came on, and about 60 against Everton until james came on. 

He has played all over midfield through the youth ranks,  what he was asked to do today was not out of his comfort zone, and who knows he end up further forward, its impossible to tell at this stage of his career.

Fantastic talent, sh*t 45 minutes today though, but he is young and its his first game in 3 months.

The secret is out the bag, if you want world class youth players, don't hype them up on social media and break them. I'm off to RAWK and the rest of the fan forums, gonna hype up all their young talent, thank me later.

18 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm not convinced it's the "hype" that kills players, if they struggle to mentally cope with it then odds are something will derail them at some point anyway so such attention is merely speeding up the inevitable. Rooney, CR7, Fabregas, Hazard, KDB, Courtois were all examples of youngsters being hyped to extremes and turning out just fine.

It's certainly a factor though no? I'm just saying I understand what @Brutos is saying there, fans should manage their expectations and not put unnecessary pressure on young players after a stellar performance. He's actually getting badly slated on social media, albeit it's mostly by rival fans, but that was due to how much Chelsea fans were hyping him. 

So regardless, there's pressure on him now. 

Didn't think he was that bad really. He gave the ball away sloppily a few times, but so did everyone on the pitch in the first half. We were awful.

I do wonder how Lampard will handle him next season - loan him out with a greater likelihood of him playing regularly or keep him here to personally oversee his development and have him fill a proper, grown-up role in the squad? If we are going to be seriously investing in players then there will be far greater expectations. To what extent will Jorginho's future be a factor?

He had a bad game, which shows some people he isn't going to win the ballon dor. 

Other than that, meh. 

Didn't think he was that bad really. He gave the ball away sloppily a few times, but so did everyone on the pitch in the first half. We were awful.
I do wonder how Lampard will handle him next season - loan him out with a greater likelihood of him playing regularly or keep him here to personally oversee his development and have him fill a proper, grown-up role in the squad? If we are going to be seriously investing in players then there will be far greater expectations. To what extent will Jorginho's future be a factor?

To be honest I thought he had an absolute howler (and I agree others did on first half) and Lampard got it spot on making wholesale changes at half time. My concern was that he was going to do same as he did against Villa and wait longer to hook players.

However he is a just a kid and in normal circumstances you'd expect a performance like that from time to time. This was his first run out since resumption and players far more experienced have looked just as rusty.

He looked a bit gutted when sitting on stands in second half and that's no bad thing. He is a talent, no doubt about it, for me the most exciting young talent we've had for decades. Thankfully for him the transfer ban and having a manager willing to trust in kids has happened at right time for him.

If I had to pick one of him, James, RLC, Abraham, and Mount who would be a first team player in 5 years it would be Gilmour.

4 minutes ago, loz said:

To be honest I thought he had an absolute howler (and I agree others did on first half) and Lampard got it spot on making wholesale changes at half time. My concern was that he was going to do same as he did against Villa and wait longer to hook players.

However he is a just a kid and in normal circumstances you'd expect a performance like that from time to time. This was his first run out since resumption and players far more experienced have looked just as rusty.

He looked a bit gutted when sitting on stands in second half and that's no bad thing. He is a talent, no doubt about it, for me the most exciting young talent we've had for decades. Thankfully for him the transfer ban and having a manager willing to trust in kids has happened at right time for him.

If I had to pick one of him, James, RLC, Abraham, and Mount who would be a first team player in 5 years it would be Gilmour.

I agree that it was the right call - no doubt at all that we were far, far better when Barkley and (to a larger extent) Kovacic were brought on.

I have to admit that past experiences (Kakuta, McEachran, etc.) have warned me off getting prematurely excited about young players, but rarely do you see a kid come in and instantly make the kind of impact that Gilmour did. I'm certainly not too concerned about 45 iffy minutes. That said, I'm wary of overplaying my hand based on 180 spectacular ones.

Would you have him in the squad next season?

He had a bit of a stinker today that’s what you get when playing kids form is always up and down. 

He will come back stronger from that experience today. I still expect him to turn into a very good player. 

 

I agree that it was the right call - no doubt at all that we were far, far better when Barkley and (to a larger extent) Kovacic were brought on.
I have to admit that past experiences (Kakuta, McEachran, etc.) have warned me off getting prematurely excited about young players, but rarely do you see a kid come in and instantly make the kind of impact that Gilmour did. I'm certainly not too concerned about 45 iffy minutes. That said, I'm wary of overplaying my hand based on 180 spectacular ones.
Would you have him in the squad next season?

Without a doubt. I don't believe players with that potential will develop sufficiently if they get 15 minutes three times a season when 3 0 up with rest of team cruising, or the odd league Cup match against Macc Town. He needs a decent amount of game time in meaningful games. Otherwise he will end up being another loan deal.

I think being out of training will effect young players more so as they don’t have as much experience to fall back on, you saw the same from James. Mount and pulisic have that little bit more experience and they have both been fine, it’s an age where you need game time, you are forming habits it’s very easy to have a dip for a young player 

We want to develop our own young players and supplement them with players like the guys we are signing for next season to fill in what our youth team does not produce.

Developing players means playing them, so they learn. They learn by making mistakes. Sometimes we get away with it, like today, other times means we miss out (like Tammy's missed pen vs Liverpool).

I am very happy with the direction the club is taking under Frank with this. Long may it continue.