fair enough assessment from Frank - he's clearly hoping he can use this to get the younger guys to step up but as @Sexyfootball has illustrated you could only claim 5 out of those that played tonight were "young" players

Just now, Slojo said:

If that's the case, why didn't we win Premier League after Premier League? Bayern have won the Bundesliga 7 times in a row now; we've won the Premier League 5 times in 17 years under Roman. We haven't exactly bought out all the competition, that's a blatant lie. 

By the way I'm not being bitter here, I'm just saying it how it is, they have it much easier compared to us, we were still outclassed by the much better side and we were lucky it was just 3-0. 

I think there is probably a different argument there. The Bundesliga has rarely had 4 or 5 teams contesting it in recent times, unlike the Premier League. Bayern have waltzed it with little resistance way too often only to be found wanting in Europe. Ironically this season the Bundesliga feels like the Premier League of a few years back, while the Premier League looks more like the Bundesliga with Liverpool in the dominant Bayern role.

1 minute ago, loz said:

5 minutes ago, beemac said:

I can't understand why so many fans (and TV pundits) keep making reference to this "young" Chelsea team. Even Hoddle mentioned it during commentary that they would be a force in 2-3 years. In actual fact in the starting XI only Christensen, Mount and James were under 25 and none are teenagers. This was a Chelsea side sprinkled with experience versus a Bayern side with a very similar makeup of youth and experience. Face it Frank may not have it after all. 

Or maybe Frank simply doesn't have the players. Ignore the played 25 or younger players for a second and look at those over 25. Of those who played tonight not one of them would be a guaranteed starter for Bayern, or Liverpool, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc etc etc. This squad is not in that league. Nowhere near it. Lampard can only be judged once he has had a couple of windows where he is backed.

Agreed loz. I thought James was a bit subdued but Mount was very bright. Challenge is in the failed recruitment from 2015 onwards. They played us superbly and exploited our weaknesses.

 

I actually think our two best centre backs are the ones either kicking their heels on the bench, or not even selected for the match day squad ... maybe it is time for Zouma/Tomori to be given another go ...

Just now, forbzy said:

I think there is probably a different argument there. The Bundesliga has rarely had 4 or 5 teams contesting it in recent times, unlike the Premier League. Bayern have waltzed it with little resistance way too often only to be found wanting in Europe. Ironically this season the Bundesliga feels like the Premier League of a few years back, while the Premier League looks more like the Bundesliga with Liverpool in the dominant Bayern role.

That's the amusing part about it, but winning 7 titles in a row is literally unheard of in the Premier League lets be honest, when has that ever happened? United won it three in a row over a decade ago and that's it. 

Just now, Slojo said:

If that's the case, why didn't we win Premier League after Premier League? Bayern have won the Bundesliga 7 times in a row now; we've won the Premier League 5 times in 17 years under Roman. We haven't exactly bought out all the competition, that's a blatant lie. 

By the way I'm not being bitter here, I'm just saying it how it is, they have it much easier compared to us, we were still outclassed by the much better side and we were lucky it was just 3-0. 

Because our league has more teams capible of winning it. We at that time had Mancheat United, Arsenal and Liverpool who were all full of great players. 

Bayern historically have been the best team in Germany for decades, thay have continually won the majority of domestic trophies. The other teams in the league are not as commercially big and the best players in Germany usually want to play for the biggest and best team they grew up watching which is Bayern. 

I don't see how them buying the best players from the league they play in can be an insult or some sort of stick to beat them with, it's literally making sure they stay top which is what it is all about. 

No ones saying that we wouldn’t have lost - we Probably would have because Bayern are a very good team. It’s more the fact that we gave it to them without offering a fight. We were the home team and want to be and attacking/possession based team in the future - playing 5 at the back and being so defensive at home when we have a sh*te defence was like waving the white flag before kick off. 

That's suuuuch bullsh*t. At half time we keep the clean sheet and managed to half some glimps of goal chances and you call that giving to them without offering a fight?

At 50' the performance was immaculate, exactly the combination of fight and luck required.
At 90' the score was just a mirror of the two teams' quality.

The tactics were spot on, the attitude was spot on, they were just way superior and at some point we couldn't cover up for that any more. But that's okay, football is a fast business and things can change within very few years. We just need to place our trust in Frank and our youngsters. I'm glad you're nowhere near them tonight telling them how they didn't fight.

23 minutes ago, loz said:

Kovacic is quality in bursts and, in fairness to him, if he had better players around him he might be able to do it more consistently over a whole game rather than fading too regularly. It is hard to keep up the level he can show when things are fairly average around him.

 

I've thought this for a while. Kovacic does what he does, and he does it excellently, but he isn't going to score and assist loads, that just isn't his game. WE've got a real good player on our hands but if he had real good players around him, we would be making a lot better use of him. I just think he's a level above everybody else.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

At some point we had Tammy,Mount,Pulisic,CHO,James,Tomori playing at the same time. We don't have any player close to their prime part from Barkley,Jorginho and Kovacic, all other players are past their prime.

But they didn't all play tonight. Every PL side has a huge youth squad and use them as they see fit. Chelsea had no teenagers tonight and three in their early 20s, the rest were seasoned campaigners. 

Just now, Chelsbear said:

Because our league has more teams capible of winning it. We at that time had Mancheat United, Arsenal and Liverpool who were all full of great players. 

Bayern historically have been the best team in Germany for decades, thay have continually won the majority of domestic trophies. The other teams in the league are not as commercially big and the best players in Germany usually want to play for the biggest and best team they grew up watching which is Bayern. 

I don't see how them buying the best players from the league they play in can be an insult or some sort of stick to beat them with, it's literally making sure they stay top which is what it is all about. 

And they also buy out the competition... This isn't hard to grasp, they bought Dortmund’s best players when they won the league under Klopp and Dortmund haven't won a title since. 

I'm really not sure why you're finding this so difficult to understand. Your preconceptions are showing, all I stated was a fact that they have it a lot easier than we do and they have the opportunity to buy out all the competition when they want to, where's the insult there? And why are you so offended and wasting so much energy on a comment I said even if it were just a petty insult? Which it isn't. 

Better player's in every position, can't fault Lampard tonight we were okay until that slip from Azpi that changed everything this quality will punish you for any mistake.

Unfortunately we have a bogey team at the weekend so it could get worst.

3 minutes ago, enigma said:

13 goals this season hasn't earned it? In this average ass team? Drogba scored less than Abraham in his first THREE seasons at Chelsea. 

And we still bought anelka shevchenko and Torres but drogba fought them off and made himself better.. 

You want us to just make him our number one striker because he is English and from the academy. So what happens if he gets injured we end up like spurs when Kane is injued right. f**k THAT sh*t MATE.. I am not saying sell the lad . I am just saying a club of Chelsea's calibre needs at least 2 strikers better than Abraham.. Tammy can either step his game up or warm the f**king bench

1 minute ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I've thought this for a while. Kovacic does what he does, and he does it excellently, but he isn't going to score and assist loads, that just isn't his game. WE've got a real good player on our hands but if he had real good players around him, we would be making a lot better use of him. I just think he's a level above everybody else.

See I disagree, this is where we get into the argument of potential. I think Kovacic does a really good job, and in a better quality side he would have a lot more assists, I mean he's scored 2 goals this season, that's not bad for a midfielder is it? Bearing in mind he plays in the pivot, he's not the offensive midfielder going forward. It's just our current side right now, we aren't very clinical, the front 3 is pretty poor to be honest, so it's not a lot to work with, particularly tonight. Look how many times the team were set up but our front 3 just didn't have the pace to take anything from it. 

2 minutes ago, carrickblue said:

fair enough assessment from Frank - he's clearly hoping he can use this to get the younger guys to step up but as @Sexyfootball has illustrated you could only claim 5 out of those that played tonight were "young" players

Well when two or three players struggle, the whole team will struggle. Not to mention some of the more experienced players play like garbage too.

Barkley has way too many bad games than good ones. Alonso is only good for potentially getting a goal on the rare occasions. 

Azpilicueta is aging and, apart from defending, he is mediocre. Rudiger is too hot & cold against decent opposition, and can make poor decisions which can cost us. 

We literally rely on young players this season, which is abysmal tbh. James, Abraham, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Pulisic, Loftus-Cheek are literally our saviours this season. Without them we would be midtable by now. 

1 minute ago, beemac said:

But they didn't all play tonight. Every PL side has a huge youth squad and use them as they see fit. Chelsea had no teenagers tonight and three in their early 20s, the rest were seasoned campaigners. 

I think it is a more general point being made about youth. Most pundits agree that there is reason for optimism in the future as some of the brightest squad members are our youth prospects. Tonight I agree the youth did not feature as heavily and actually it was the older players that were not good enough (with the odd exception like Kovacic). That just shows how poor our current first team squad has been allowed to become over the last few years. 

Just now, enigma said:

Well when two or three players struggle, the whole team will struggle. Not to mention some of the more experienced players play like garbage too.

Barkley has way too many bad games than good ones. Alonso is only good for potentially getting a goal on the rare occasions. 

Azpilicueta is aging and, apart from defending, he is mediocre. Rudiger is too hot & cold against decent opposition, and can make poor decisions which can cost us. 

We literally rely on young players this season, which is abysmal tbh. James, Abraham, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Pulisic, Loftus-Cheek are literally our saviours this season. Without them we would be midtable by now. 

I know, thank god for Loftus Cheek. We’d be 10th by now if he weren’t playing.

Just now, enigma said:

Well when two or three players struggle, the whole team will struggle. Not to mention some of the more experienced players play like garbage too.

Barkley has way too many bad games than good ones. Alonso is only good for potentially getting a goal on the rare occasions. 

Azpilicueta is aging and, apart from defending, he is mediocre. Rudiger is too hot & cold against decent opposition, and can make poor decisions which can cost us. 

We literally rely on young players this season, which is abysmal tbh. James, Abraham, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Pulisic, Loftus-Cheek are literally our saviours this season. Without them we would be midtable by now. 

RLC? He hasn't even played a game yet this season. But I think I know what you're trying to say. I agree, a lot of our experienced players are letting us down, Rudiger particularly, he was f**king awful tonight. 

5 minutes ago, Slojo said:

And they also buy out the competition... This isn't hard to grasp, they bought Dortmund’s best players when they won the league under Klopp and Dortmund haven't won a title since. 

I'm really not sure why you're finding this so difficult to understand. Your preconceptions are showing, all I stated was a fact that they have it a lot easier than we do and they have the opportunity to buy out all the competition when they want to, where's the insult there? And why are you so offended and wasting so much energy on a comment I said even if it were just a petty insult? Which it isn't. 

So you weren't trying to hit back at the poster about his team buying success? 

We all know they bought Dortmund best players, it's been said in evert post on the subject. Dortmund choose to sell those players, Bayern didn't hold them at gun point. 

Bayern are doing what any other club including ours would do in the same circumstances. 

We literally tried the same thing when going after Cole, Gerrard, Rooney and so on. 

The Budusligas lack of competition is down to the teams who choose to punt their best players to rivals, not because Bayern are doing anything wrong.

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Chelsbear

Fret ye not. Tis but a cunning plan: rope a dope, suck 'em in spit 'em out. They think they've already won the tie, hands down, no contest. But we know better, don't we, boys and girls.

Up at their place we'll muller 'em (no pun). I have absolutely no doubt about it. None whatsoever.*

 

 

 

 

*Ok, maybe just a tiny bit.

Just now, beemac said:

But they didn't all play tonight. Every PL side has a huge youth squad and use them as they see fit. Chelsea had no teenagers tonight and three in their early 20s, the rest were seasoned campaigners. 

The point is that our top players this season that actually have an end product have been the following: Tammy,Pulisic,Mount. All around 21 years old. 

Bayern still has a very good Lewandowski and that makes a whole lot much easier, they have been trying to bring in more youth in their first team, they wanted to buy CHO.

Whats better in a knockout game like this, to have veterans like Muller,Lewandowski,Thiago or Barkley,Giroud,Jorginho? 

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I think Kovacic does a really good job, and in a better quality side he would have a lot more assists. 

 

You're probably right.

We got a bit of a footballing lesson tonight.

3-0 didn't flatter Bayern one bit.

Their left back Davies is some player, with some pace.

We had a few chances but didn't take any of them unfortunately.

Bayern had a few more than the ones they scored with and fortunately for us, didn't take them.

 

2 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

So you weren't trying to hit back at the poster about his team buying success? 

We all know they bought Dortmund best players, it's been said in evert post on the subject. Dortmund choose to sell those players, Bayern didn't hold them at gun point. 

Bayern are doing what any other club including ours would do in the same circumstances. 

We literally tried the same thing when going after Cole, Gerrard, Rooney and so on. 

Germany lack of competition is down to the teams who choose to punt their best players to rivals, not because Bayern are doing anything wrong.

He quoted me... Honestly I don't care about this argument anymore, you're just trying to argue about something that isn't there, I've explained just about everything and you can't refute what I've said without getting into double standards and revisionism. Focus on what's just happened, this is the last time I'm replying to you on this subject because it's just going to derail the thread. 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Slojo

9 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You nabbed Lewy from Dortmund like you did Gotze, when Dortmund where challenging you and beating you for the title you signed their two best players. Lets not deny reality, no other team in the Bundesliga is able to rise and compete with Bayern, your team dominates every other in the market. 

But we do not raid the Bundesliga that much. And it is just understandable that a lot of the best players of the Bundesliga want to go to the best club in Germany.

I understand that you did not like the result. Understandable. But you have a young team with a good future! 

 

Bit of a reality check tonight for me..
Didn't realise how far behind the really top sides we have fallen, it's a fairly long way back it looked like this evening.