20 hours ago, General said:

TT is one of the best managers we’ve had in the Roman era however the squad that he inherited is not. It’s that simple. He’s done wonders since he got hired but expecting some of those players out there yesterday to compete with Peps mob after a year of TT coaching is unrealistic. I’m sick of pundits bigging up the squad he has to work with, a few players aside the squad is nowhere near City’s level. It’s apparent now that in TT preferred system wingbacks are required, call it bad luck losing Chilly for the season and double bad luck James is out, but without them the sparkling attacking footy we saw vs Juve is not gonna happen. The club have indicated no desire to bring in top class reinforcements this month so we’re stuck with most matches being frustrating now.  But the club’s recruiters have to take a look in the mirror. No team is gonna compete consistently w City unless they can get to their performance levels on the pitch, maybe they can be beat them in a one off but to go toe toe with them you need an equal squad or a talisman/ men that give that little bit extra. eg. The Dippers have Salah & Mane. Our squad has no such players anymore, it says a lot that nobody except Jorgi who from pens only is approaching double figures in the league & no more pens equals no more goals for him. Whomever scouted and signed the let downs that are Werner, Zyech, Havertz & Lukaku needs a P45 but we all know the big fellow has final say so nowt will happen. Currently we are lumbered with a toothless attack and once the manager starts digging them out in frustration like yesterday (no names but we all know) it’s not a healthy situation. The league is well and truly gone so only cups to play for, if he wins one more and gets top 4 TT will have done an acceptable job under the circumstances. But until Chelsea’s recruitment improves we are not getting near City or that title. All that is needed just like the dippers have is 1 or 2 world class talismanic players that can score goals consistently. Lukaku is not that player and won’t be moved on anytime soon so we won’t win the title anytime soon. Temo is a fan favorite Bc of his on pitch effort but it’s apparent he’s not gonna be a goal or assist machine, Zyech only looks good on the right in a 4, Havertz has shown glimpses of talent  but never gonna get 20 a season or 10 for that matter. Still could be worse could be Everton fans ! 

It's funny I agree we are someway off competing yet at Liverpool Mane and Salah are getting older and at City without De Bruyne they are not really that intimidating.

I agree generally with the consensus our forward players are not delivering enough partly I think we need a decent attacking midfielder and then I see Gallagher at Palace running late into the box for a shot that is either a goal, corner or the keeper saves. Assuming we use him next season that will enhance us in attack.

The dilemma is we expect out attackers to close down and then attack and score. Don't think many can do both clinically as the game is so fast. 

With Lukaku we seem to lack someone to put him through, thought Mount was unlucky last time out when he came on he tried passing to the channel inside the keeper yet Lukaku run outside the keeper, yet the intention was sound. 

A couple of our recent goals have come from Alonso mugging the other wide back of possession and providing a good forward pass to open up the opposition. This is good yet we also need goals from open play.

23 minutes ago, enigma said:

One of the times I agree with Craig Burley. Tuchel also needs to take blame for poor tactics. 

 

 

To an extent I agree, I missed the game and only saw highlights. Any game we play Azpil on the wing I know we will struggle to create especially with Alonso the other wb there just isn't the pace to get in behind or stay high because there's no pace for recovery runs. 

I think had TT gone for a similar strategy to the one vs Spurs in which he played a hybrid 4231 we would have seen more attacking impetus, on the other hand we could have got destroyed at the back who's to say. 

Tuchel won 3 games in a row vs Pep, it was only a matter of time before their head to heads became a bit more even. Funnily enough in 5 encounters now in just under a year that's 3 wins to us 2 to them. 4 goals scored for us and 3 for them. For all their dominance in the two games they beat us the fact that it was only by a goal does suggest that with better forwards or conversion of chances we could have taken something from either of those games.

The table doesn't lie though that's still only 4 points off their 13 point lead over us. Someone said on here when Chillwell got injured they felt bad for him he left as a title challenger and would return in a top 4 battle. I didn't want to agree but deep down I had my worries and as soon as James got out for 2 months I knew our title challenge was stumbling to a halt. 

Ironic that neither player started Tuchels first game for us but by the end of last season had not only established they were first choice but proved to be the best wing back pairing in world football, no James or Chillwell no 3421 at the peak of its ability.

 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Agree with this.

As exciting as it is to see the likes of Gallagher, Broja, Colwill and others perform there needs to be a proper plan before bringing them into the fold here.

We are aiming to compete with world-class sides with world-class players so we need to be careful so we don't pin our hopes on youngsters with potential. Gallagher could probably come in right now and be an upgrade on almost every attacker we have but is he at the level required for a title charge yet? I am not convinced. Same goes for Broja.

Almost every expensive player we've brought in the last decade has been rubbish with us. Maybe its f**king karma punishing us for not giving KDB & Salah a chance & screwing our best player(Mata) in favour of dross like Oscar, Willian & Schurrle. 

I'm tired of seeing us bringing new expensive failures every season. We're better off with half a team of younger players with lower expectations that TT can mould in his playing style than trying to fit in shiny expensive toys like Lukaku, Havertz, Werner & Pulisic.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by Nick05

I still don't think we're that far behind City. It was a close match and they didn't look overly threatening - it just took a moment a class from kdb to break us down. Definitely wasn't our best day though. I feel like when we're at full strength we have the beating of City, but we need our best ball-playing defenders on the pitch. Add Christensen, James and Chilwell to the team instead of Alonso, Sarr and Azpi and we'd have seen a huge difference. Tommy T got it wrong with the front 3 too. Should have gone with the same front 3 as the Champs final in my opinion.

We still have all the cups to go for to make it another good season and a step in the right direction. Next season I'm positive we'll be right up there with City.

6 hours ago, Argo said:

In a normal context no, but considering he inherited a side that could barely string two passes together and were mid table that is an impressive return.

That’s not true we finished top 4 with lamps.. and we were top of the league .. not long before a run that the team has been on got him the sack.. lamps had similar if not more injuries..

Now I am not saying that lamps was the answer or Tuchel is not an upgrade.. but I am just trying to be objective to say that Tuchel needs to do better- he has the players IMO but has not yet been able to get the best out of them In the league.

 

13 minutes ago, Jangz said:

That’s not true we finished top 4 with lamps.. and we were top of the league .. not long before a run that the team has been on got him the sack.. lamps had similar if not more injuries..

Now I am not saying that lamps was the answer or Tuchel is not an upgrade.. but I am just trying to be objective to say that Tuchel needs to do better- he has the players IMO but has not yet been able to get the best out of them In the league.

I said in the thread about the strikers Lampard for me was very good before the lockdown (results were iffy but there was a clear identity to our play that felt sustainable and the youth element added to the fun) but after the restart i hated the football we were playing. Pulisic briefly turning into Hazard then the Mendy/Silva/Ziyech effect served as sticky plasters for a while but we ran out in the winter.

Come the end we were playing like a Tony Pulls side without even being difficult to beat (for all our issues at the moment we still have that element). It was soul destroying.

Tuchel's had times where it's not been great but it's nothing close to what we were seeing last winter. 

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by Argo

Let's just play a back 4 now Tommy, titles gone the system for all intensive purposes is  pretty incompatible or less effective with the players available.

We've leaned on the defense for long enough now, field 4 attackers and let them do their job, which will be made easier having more creative players alongside themselves.

I like the 3421 I really do but the best we've looked recently was vs Spurs we dominated them and I think having 4 attackers on had a big part to play in that, we still have the ability to play it as a hybrid 3atb so I don't see why this shouldn't be the formation moving forward. The 442 or 4222 that he utilised in the cup I think will be a lot more effective vs everyone else in the league left to play.

Why play 5 defenders and try and grind out a 1 goal advantage when you can dominate possession either way and have a better chance to score with more goalscorers present. 

Heck playing 4atb means we're more open, allowing us to let our opponents commit more players forward and leaving them more vunerable at the back

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by LongtimerLurker

TT already facing questions about his future from the press:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12518390/thomas-tuchel-keen-to-stay-at-chelsea-until-contract-runs-out-in-2024-but-wary-of-history-at-stamford-bridge

Tuchel wins FIFA best coach. Nothing compared to Pulisic's dad though.

https://link.chelseafc.com/1WUW/d5b91b2

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by RomansRoubles

4 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Let's just play a back 4 now Tommy, titles gone the system for all intensive purposes is  pretty incompatible or less effective with the players available.

We've leaned on the defense for long enough now, field 4 attackers and let them do their job, which will be made easier having more creative players alongside themselves.

I like the 3421 I really do but the best we've looked recently was vs Spurs we dominated them and I think having 4 attackers on had a big part to play in that, we still have the ability to play it as a hybrid 3atb so I don't see why this shouldn't be the formation moving forward. The 442 or 4222 that he utilised in the cup I think will be a lot more effective vs everyone else in the league left to play.

Why play 5 defenders and try and grind out a 1 goal advantage when you can dominate possession either way and have a better chance to score with more goalscorers present. 

Heck playing 4atb means we're more open, allowing us to let our opponents commit more players forward and leaving them more vunerable at the back

I agree. Without our attacking wing backs fit this system is completely pointless now. Need to get another attacker on the pitch

13 minutes ago, RomansRoubles said:

Tuchel wins FIFA best coach. Nothing compared to Pulisic's dad though.

https://link.chelseafc.com/1WUW/d5b91b2

Odds on Mark Pulisic replacing Tuchel before the season is over?

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

TT already facing questions about his future from the press:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12518390/thomas-tuchel-keen-to-stay-at-chelsea-until-contract-runs-out-in-2024-but-wary-of-history-at-stamford-bridge

The press love trying to stir up something that isn’t there, nobody wants him gone in the slightest 

7 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Let's just play a back 4 now Tommy, titles gone the system for all intensive purposes is  pretty incompatible or less effective with the players available.

We've leaned on the defense for long enough now, field 4 attackers and let them do their job, which will be made easier having more creative players alongside themselves.

I like the 3421 I really do but the best we've looked recently was vs Spurs we dominated them and I think having 4 attackers on had a big part to play in that, we still have the ability to play it as a hybrid 3atb so I don't see why this shouldn't be the formation moving forward. The 442 or 4222 that he utilised in the cup I think will be a lot more effective vs everyone else in the league left to play.

Why play 5 defenders and try and grind out a 1 goal advantage when you can dominate possession either way and have a better chance to score with more goalscorers present. 

Heck playing 4atb means we're more open, allowing us to let our opponents commit more players forward and leaving them more vunerable at the back

We spontaneously played 4-2-2-2 and won against Spurs while having a clean sheet and that was with a combined lineup, let's be honest if we really were unable to play a back 4 formation surely at least Son would have been able to do something there.

I still think though that we can't have it both ways. Either splash the cash for new full-backs in order for the back 3 to work, or buy a CB that can perform in a back 4 consistently.

Looks like we're the only top team that still tries to play with a back 3, Spurs only do it because of Conte anyway and Inter does it because Inzaghi is the second person after Conte that likes that formation. 

If you take the last 8 matches, Chelsea's form is 8th in the league.  12 goals for, 11 conceded.  Feels worse than that, which is actually true if you take the last 5, 4, 3 games - but in reality the sample gets too small then (on the last three games we'd be 13th).  Covid/injuries hit us hard, and what's concerning is to look at the teams around us - all have games in hand.  Now they can't all win, but we can only slide down in the same data cut.

Not good enough.  This stuttering pace will see CL place go.  Our season needs a restart after World Club Championship.  A big ask, but we need to win 10 of the final 15 games.  It should start earlier against Spurs, but our inability to score goals concerns me.

 

Arguably the worse end product/finishing players we've had in the Roman era, and probably going back into mid or early 90s.  TT needs to get more end product out of these players immediately.

Tuchel vs Lukaku still seems to be on. It will probably be on rest of the season. Not something that helps us get to our goals. 

It feels like Tuchel is asked about it all the time and Tuchel is not hiding his feelings towards Lukaku. He brought it up in the City game aftermath and now he said in the presser about key players behaving like key players. Rom will hear about it even if it was not about him per say.

I hope he knows he will always lose these battles. Like he did at Dortmund and PSG. In Chelsea the manager is the only employer who is replaced when things go south. 

I fully trust his coaching skills in terms of football but not this side of his personality. His track record is pretty public.

7 minutes ago, evissy said:

Tuchel vs Lukaku still seems to be on. It will probably be on rest of the season. Not something that helps us get to our goals. 

It feels like Tuchel is asked about it all the time and Tuchel is not hiding his feelings towards Lukaku. He brought it up in the City game aftermath and now he said in the presser about key players behaving like key players. Rom will hear about it even if it was not about him per say.

I hope he knows he will always lose these battles. Like he did at Dortmund and PSG. In Chelsea the manager is the only employer who is replaced when things go south. 

I fully trust his coaching skills in terms of football but not this side of his personality. His track record is pretty public.

Buyer’s remorse? 

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Tuchel vs Lukaku still seems to be on. It will probably be on rest of the season. Not something that helps us get to our goals. 

It feels like Tuchel is asked about it all the time and Tuchel is not hiding his feelings towards Lukaku. He brought it up in the City game aftermath and now he said in the presser about key players behaving like key players. Rom will hear about it even if it was not about him per say.

I hope he knows he will always lose these battles. Like he did at Dortmund and PSG. In Chelsea the manager is the only employer who is replaced when things go south. 

I fully trust his coaching skills in terms of football but not this side of his personality. His track record is pretty public.

Did he have battles with the player's at PSG? I thought it was more Learnardo.

Mbappe for sure loved him and the feeling was mutual.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Did he have battles with the player's at PSG? I thought it was more Learnardo.

Mbappe for sure loved him and the feeling was mutual.

Not with players but with different people working for these clubs

And to reiterate I think part of his success is down to his very apparent passion. When you do things with passion it most likely will boil over. I feel at this very moment Tuchel is digging a hole for himself. I am not sure Jose or Conte ever survived one debacle ever at Chelsea.

Edited January 18, 20224 yr by evissy

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

Buyer’s remorse? 

Educated guess he underestimated just how hard it would be to fit Rom into this system.

If this was his idea then for many managers I would say this is a big enough mistake for the sack but Tuchel's done so much good he should get a pass for it.

It does show the "he's won this trophy so we should back his judgement" narrative many pulled for both Conte and Tuchel to be very flawed though. Both are separate entities, a great coach can be so so in the market or vice versa.

Marina: We need top striker. We can get Lukaku. Thoughts?

Tuchel: Hmm he is a top striker but would he fit into my system? Maybe? Anyone else available?

Marina: Haaland is too expensive. So we are down to Lukaku or someone unknown. Which is it?

Tuchel: Lukaku it is.

26 minutes ago, evissy said:

Marina: We need top striker. We can get Lukaku. Thoughts?

Tuchel: Hmm he is a top striker but would he fit into my system? Maybe? Anyone else available?

Marina: Haaland is too expensive. So we are down to Lukaku or someone unknown. Which is it?

Tuchel: Lukaku it is.

If there's doubts about a player's systematic suitability then he's as good as an unknown. The only times it can/does work is when the player's is so good their productivity makes up for any systematic mismatch (ala Hazard).

Lukaku at his best we get an awkward fit who will bang in a few, at his worst we're down to ten.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Educated guess he underestimated just how hard it would be to fit Rom into this system.

If this was his idea then for many managers I would say this is a big enough mistake for the sack but Tuchel's done so much good he should get a pass for it.

It does show the "he's won this trophy so we should back his judgement" narrative many pulled for both Conte and Tuchel to be very flawed though. Both are separate entities, a great coach can be so so in the market or vice versa.

I really don't think Lukaku would have been his first choice. Haaland was out and the board went with the next best option (could be argued). But he would have been on board with the idea. To your point, I think he underestimated how hard it would be to fit him. Tuchel is a data guy. He talks about it in all his interviews. So I am still a little surprised he didn't raise a stink about his transfer. Maybe he wanted to be a little more diplomatic after PSG. 

Poor again. Should have reacted in the halftime, not 10 minutes into the end. 

Worrying times right now. Right now we are sinking, there is no doubt about it.

I'm a fan of the 3-4-3 but Azpi & Alonso are the fullback pair from hell for the system. There are a lot more issues as well but our current fullbacks may just be the biggest one. They ruin everything we try to do, and did so well up until Chilwell got injured.

I think we are in trouble v Spurs on Sunday the way things are going right now. And a loss there and the pressure will no doubt mount.

 

He won't last the season. As soon as we drop out of the top 4, it'll be over.