5 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

You mentioned Ferguson ... United fans wanted him sacked too , his start was rubbish.

Haha. You want to compare the two men? 

Fergie was a winner at national and international level before he rocked up at Man Utd. 

He didn't see the Scottish Ostersund through a couple of promotions and the Scottish Brighton to 10th and 9th. 

That's the type of manager you place hope on and in that case it wouldn't be blind hope. 

Still not sacked then? 

/sigh

1 minute ago, abister1 said:

Haha. You want to compare the two men? 

Fergie was a winner at national and international level before he rocked up at Man Utd. 

He didn't see the Scottish Ostersund through a couple of promotions and the Scottish Brighton to 10th and 9th. 

That's the type of manager you place hope on and in that case it wouldn't be blind hope. 

True... But despite all that he had an appalling start and fans wanted him sacked. So in that respect Potter is on track to emulate Ferguson. !

And no, before you have a breakdown I don't think Potter is the next Ferguson! 😄😄😄

 

1 hour ago, abister1 said:

I see why one will want away from the hire and fire model. I'm all for stability but I'm not one blinded by a burning desire to be "socially compliant" and seen as giving managers time when really that's the world of football we operate in these days. 

I can count clubs in the same league as us who have sacked managers as much as we have done when things aren't going as expected. They don't get called out for it as we do. It's just associated as something with the ruthless bad Russian who was at the helm but it's not true. Just as they said about the footballers.... Johnny Foreigner with their diving and play acting when ALL footballers do it these days. It's not their innate nature, it's down to the tactical nature of the competitive sport and gaining any advantage as you can get away with from the officials.

I was a xenophobe and used bad Russian in example above because I want to point out the hypocrisy as even Chelsea in our so called past sacked managers. Before Roman in the last 2 to 3 decades we had more short stint managers than long stint ones. It's just all propaganda and unconscious bias which I don't subscribe to and I'm able to look at the data myself and judge. 

What is the point of hoping that time will produce different. That's why there is the term blind hope..

Is there anything that suggests Potter will win a league apart from blind hope?

Is there anything that suggests that he can handle football at the level Chelsea operate apart from blind hope? 

Is there anything that suggests over a full season that he can best managers like Pep, Klopp, Ten Haag, Emery, Bowie, Lopetegui, Arteta tactically? There are more but that's us out of Europe already.

Is there anything that suggests he can handle world class or on the cusp of world class players on a training pitch and dressing room apart from blind hope? 

Well I for one can only hope blindly that Todd and team know what they are doing. The thing with these things is they can set the team on a wrong trajectory and set us back for years. 

Look at Juande Ramos at Spurs, won Carling cup but finished 11th. Still got the backing of the bosses and next season they were forced to chop him when they were firmly in the relegation zone and that's a manager that achieved far greater at Seville than GP has ever done. But that cost them a great deal until Pochettino came along. 

Man Utd are still paying for their lack of due diligence when appointing a manager after Fergie, 10 years after the man himself left. Moyes was not a bad manager by any stretch of the imagination but wasn't the manager to be backed against competition like there was at the time. And even then it wasn't as competitive as it is now. 

Gosh this is getting long. Will stop here. 

Really good post. Agree with a lot of this.

5 hours ago, enigma said:

So many people talking about Potter being mediocre is a bit ridiculous. He obviously isn't a bad manager, just maybe come into a club like Chelsea at a bad time. Again, 30+ players in the squad, coming in without pre-season, constant injuries to key players throughout the season so no settled side etc, it's not an ideal time to have come into a club like chelsea at the best of times, let alone with all the upheaval of the club the past 8 months or so.

"Again, 30+ players in the squad"

So what? Ranieri had this exact same "problem" in 03-04, we finished 2nd in the league. It's the most pathetic excuse used to defend him.

"constant injuries to key players throughout the season"

To begin with that was an issue, but in recent times, injuries have not been as bad. Tuchel had it worse than Potter last season and we still finished 3rd and made it to multiple cup finals.

"coming in without pre-season"

I asked yesterday what it is about pre-season that is so special, I am still yet to see any response to that. The modern day pre-season is marketing, traveling, getting fitness levels up, dealing with different climates. What is it about pre-season that can be so magical to prepare a team for a new season? If anything, I see it as a terrible way to prepare for the new season because of the reasons I listed above. What can he do in a single month of pre-season that he can't do at any point in the following 10 months?

this sh*t show over yet

33 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

I still get ribbed by my mates about my opinion that Doug was a full back who was cultured and " didn't just whack the ball anywhere"

Unless we can settle on a regular team and  formation so players can build a bond and understanding it's always going to be disjointed. 

The squad is bloated , it needs sorting out. But no matter what happens with Potter we still have an owner who wants our club run on a basis that is different to the old model, which despite being successful was unprofitable and loaded with debt.

The biggest disaster for me is not Potter so much as the long term contracts that I fear will stifle and hamper the club in the long term.

Thanks for your reply, can't wait for this season to end !

 

 

I thought much the same about Joe McLaughlin tbh. Lol.

I don't think the model is necessarily flawed but the approach has certainly been cumbersome and ham-fisted. 

I don't believe in the American bull in a China shop rhetoric but Boehly certainly appears to have failed with rule 1. Learn and know your market.

The short termism that you and others have correctly cited were not intentional, except for maybe Guus, but more the result of circumstance, in my opinion.

I have said before and I do genuinely believe it, perhaps it's right course wrong horse

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I am not loyal to potter.  I do however back the need for a hard reset of the team. 

Dont agree that the selection stifled out attack. We had over 25 shots.l, including 2x 1 on 1s

Dont agree that it invites mistakes either. James played rcb under tuchel (even though i prefer him at rb) l, and cucu had his best game for us at lcb 2 or 3 games ago where he won motm. It wasn't the selection that drove him to the sh*t header backwards.

I personally looked at the line up and thought sh**********ttttt

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Let's say we stuck with Tuchel. The club would have to bite their tongue with him the entire season and his behaviour. They couldn't follow their plans with him. That is no long term solution. Let's say we finished 7th under him. So slightly better than with Potter. I actuality being 14th or 7th on the table makes no difference.

600m spent and 11th argument doesn't hold water either. It is something you have picked up on media. Look at what we bought and look how big the squad is. If we bought Trossards instead of Mudryks we would signal we want top4 right away. We didn't. We went another route. There is no guarantees you bring in De Zerbi and he does any better. Absolutely none. And he smells like a project coach anyway.

I am not backing Potter the man or the coach but longevity. Judge him on results couple seasons on. Then we can talk about his talent.

Sorry, but that approach makes no sense to me. What's the point of sticking with a manager for a couple of seasons when after seven months it's obvious to anyone that he is completely out of his depth? What are we trying to prove here and to who? Backing longevity with the wrong man in charge will set us back massively. Sacking Tuchel few weeks into a new season was a bit of a shock but replacing him with Potter has turned out to be an even bigger mistake.

Bayern have just sacked Nagelsmann who won the title last year, got to the CL quarterfinals after confidently dispatching PSG and at the time was a point or two behind Dortmund in a title race. I don't know exactly what happened there but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making. Top clubs have huge ambitions and are extremely competitive and ruthless. I cannot imagine a top club like  Bayern or Real tolerate the kind of a season we're having, no chance. Forget Roman and his revolving door policy, no self respecting club would tolerate the relegation form we've been performing at for the last few months.

It's absolutely embarrassing to even suggest that Potter needs more time at this point. You have to earn time. He had no pedigree or trophies to back him when he got here so he needed to show us what he can produce on the pitch to get some credit. I can take a loss or a draw, I can live with missing out on top four and I can be patient when there's a reason behind it. But you can't just keep failing for months (!) and still expect to be backed. Does anyone actually believe he can still turn it around? This is madness.

Edited April 2, 20233 yr by abramovich

From a league perspective I can’t see the point of sacking him, I would be amazed if we got relegated and I would equally amazed if we got a European place, so we gain nothing this season other than a large pay off. 

if we get taken apart by Real Madrid then maybe 

I am not one of those stick with him fans but I am sure the board are taking a lot into consideration in terms of their next move is all I am saying 

I do have a feeling those who are hoping he will be sacked any minute “surely” might be disappointed 

Just an opinion, and mine have been known to be wrong at times 

Still here then.. heard his interview yesterday.. real cheeky name dropping Mudryk on his misses.. Felix and havertz have been doing similar in other matches .. but classy to go after the youngster. 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

"Again, 30+ players in the squad"

So what? Ranieri had this exact same "problem" in 03-04, we finished 2nd in the league. It's the most pathetic excuse used to defend him.

"constant injuries to key players throughout the season"

To begin with that was an issue, but in recent times, injuries have not been as bad. Tuchel had it worse than Potter last season and we still finished 3rd and made it to multiple cup finals.

"coming in without pre-season"

I asked yesterday what it is about pre-season that is so special, I am still yet to see any response to that. The modern day pre-season is marketing, traveling, getting fitness levels up, dealing with different climates. What is it about pre-season that can be so magical to prepare a team for a new season? If anything, I see it as a terrible way to prepare for the new season because of the reasons I listed above. What can he do in a single month of pre-season that he can't do at any point in the following 10 months?

Agreed, 

“ too big of a squad”is clutching at straws. If anything it shows his deficiencies as a manager.

From day one I have said he is not a quality manager, and is a fraud. He needs to go, and that is that.

no one can justify us possibly finishing with the lowest position since 1995. Our squad is not as bad as that. This is all on graham potter

I'll post here as think most will have had enough with post match talk.

Like with Fulham we dominated in every respect yet did not score.

Too many were shots in front of Martinez that he saw coming, we needed finishes with guile and did not do this.

Mudryks cross to Chilwell was the best effort yet ruled a foul, think we might have been unlucky there from the replay looks like Young gets under the ball and feels Chilwell leaning on him so falls over.

Nice to see Kante back though with his late effort can't tell if a cross or a shot yet a good chance missed. 

What I find strange is with the defence weaker without Silva he makes this worse by playing Cucurella instead of Badashiel. I think it is this extreme care of the players rather than realising we are in a difficult position needing every point so you play your best XI not thinking a match or two down the line with potential fatigue.  

 

11 minutes ago, abramovich said:

I cannot imagine a top club like  Bayern or Real tolerate the kind of a season we're having, no chance. Forget Roman and his revolving door policy, no self respecting club

People talk about revolving door, sacking culture or whatever they want to call it yet a serious club like a Bayern in a one club league where in the last decade they have won 10 league titles have also managed to have 8 different men in the dug out, 7 permanent managers in the same period against Chelsea's 9 men but 6 permanent managers. 

It's all bollocks in my opinion that we shouldn't change an incompetent manager to appear to the world as a "stable" club. 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

"Again, 30+ players in the squad"

So what? Ranieri had this exact same "problem" in 03-04, we finished 2nd in the league. It's the most pathetic excuse used to defend him.

"constant injuries to key players throughout the season"

To begin with that was an issue, but in recent times, injuries have not been as bad. Tuchel had it worse than Potter last season and we still finished 3rd and made it to multiple cup finals.

"coming in without pre-season"

I asked yesterday what it is about pre-season that is so special, I am still yet to see any response to that. The modern day pre-season is marketing, traveling, getting fitness levels up, dealing with different climates. What is it about pre-season that can be so magical to prepare a team for a new season? If anything, I see it as a terrible way to prepare for the new season because of the reasons I listed above. What can he do in a single month of pre-season that he can't do at any point in the following 10 months?

Crazy how the excuses went from 'He has too many injuries' 'He needs to sign plyaers' to 'He has too many players'. Unreal protection 😂

1 minute ago, abister1 said:

People talk about revolving door, sacking culture or whatever they want to call it yet a serious club like a Bayern in a one club league where in the last decade they have won 10 league titles have also managed to have 8 different men in the dug out, 7 permanent managers in the same period against Chelsea's 9 men but 6 permanent managers. 

It's all bollocks in my opinion that we shouldn't change an incompetent manager to appear to the world as a "stable" club. 

Couldn’t agree more .. arsenal sacked Unai and Freddie before sticking with Arteta.. pool struck gold with klopp but were as bad before that . I am very curious still to what happened with TT especially he asked for an injunction against his wife’s emails.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Wrong. Firm Tory 😂

Yeah I'm surprised he said that. I'm the opposite of a Tory and I've wanted Potter out since early December 😂 I don't think politics has much to do with football

This is from Ornstein so probably more reliable than most journos. It looks like the only reason they have to keep Potter atm moment is for convenience sake because of all the mess that needs sorting out in the summer

Well Eddie Howie is proving you don't have to have had managed at the top level and won trophies to actually take a team to the top level.

Just now, The Rising Sun said:

Well Eddie Howie is proving you don't have to have had managed at the top level and won trophies to actually take a team to the top level.

100%, Potter could have proven that as well if he succeeded here, instead he's dragged us into 11th. 

 

Eddie has also shown that you can dramatically improve a team without a pre-season, they were bottom of the table when he took over, so I'm not exactly sure what Potter's excuse is. 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Let's say we stuck with Tuchel. The club would have to bite their tongue with him the entire season and his behaviour. They couldn't follow their plans with him. That is no long term solution. Let's say we finished 7th under him. So slightly better than with Potter. I actuality being 14th or 7th on the table makes no difference.

600m spent and 11th argument doesn't hold water either. It is something you have picked up on media. Look at what we bought and look how big the squad is. If we bought Trossards instead of Mudryks we would signal we want top4 right away. We didn't. We went another route. There is no guarantees you bring in De Zerbi and he does any better. Absolutely none. And he smells like a project coach anyway.

I am not backing Potter the man or the coach but longevity. Judge him on results couple seasons on. Then we can talk about his talent.

Tuchel 10 points from 6 games, in what was considered a poor start to the season. 

Even at that rate of 1.66 points per game we would be on 46 points in 6th and only 4 points off 3rd. 

There is a massive difference in finishing 7th compared to 14th, from the financial aspect of no european football, less prize money, possibly less from sponsors.Then from the sporting aspect and morale and feeling around a club that has ended up 14th compared to 7th.

We may not have signed Trossards, although we did sign Koulibaly, Cucurella, Sterling and Aubameyang, and we already had a group of players that are champions league winners. 

The target at a minimum, even with no preseason, a bloated squad, injuries, and any other possible excuse, has to be top 7. There is no way we should be behind Brighton, Fulham, Brentford, and Villa. 

2 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

How on earth isn’t Potter sacked by now? What a joke.

He won't be mate, he has Todd's full support and that matters more than our support, or lack there of in most cases.

16 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

100%, Potter could have proven that as well if he succeeded here, instead he's dragged us into 11th. 

 

Eddie has also shown that you can dramatically improve a team without a pre-season, they were bottom of the table when he took over, so I'm not exactly sure what Potter's excuse is. 

It's extraordinary what Howe's doing . Playing a pacy, direct , energetic style and  with no endless pointless possession.

What a contrast 

43 minutes ago, abister1 said:

People talk about revolving door, sacking culture or whatever they want to call it yet a serious club like a Bayern in a one club league where in the last decade they have won 10 league titles have also managed to have 8 different men in the dug out, 7 permanent managers in the same period against Chelsea's 9 men but 6 permanent managers. 

It's all bollocks in my opinion that we shouldn't change an incompetent manager to appear to the world as a "stable" club. 

The revolving door policy was successful for us no doubt.

But financially unsustainable, we never made a profit and accumulated over a £billion in debt.

Mind you, we ain't gonna be successful or turn a profit the way things are going , I prefer the old way !

 

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I thought much the same about Joe McLaughlin tbh. Lol.

I don't think the model is necessarily flawed but the approach has certainly been cumbersome and ham-fisted. 

I don't believe in the American bull in a China shop rhetoric but Boehly certainly appears to have failed with rule 1. Learn and know your market.

The short termism that you and others have correctly cited were not intentional, except for maybe Guus, but more the result of circumstance, in my opinion.

I have said before and I do genuinely believe it, perhaps it's right course wrong horse

Yeah, I'm not bothered by the hire and fire culture as long as it's successful, which it mostly was .

It really is difficult to figure out what is going through the minds of those at the top with the  decisions they've made right from the start at all  levels at the club.