10 hours ago, just said:

No manager goes flying around the world looking at players. But they either give names of players they want to sign or rubber stamp any players that are put forward as potential signings. If you think Tuchel was just told "Here you go mate, Aubameyang is arriving next Tuesday" you are mental.

I do genuinely think his input on transfers was a bit like that. I didn't like it, it was the worst thing about him as a coach, it's why he ends up with players like Aubameyang, Lukaku and Dier. I don't think he handpicked those players himself as options though. They were just the players suggested by his team around him and the he gave the club the go ahead to sign them.

I feel like people are way too harsh on Tuchel for this when I think this same thing has been happening with our last two managers and even with previous ones. Pochettino, Potter, Sarri, Lampard, how many transfers under any of these managers were handpicked by them? Chilwell and Jorginho are the only ones I can think of.

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I do genuinely think his input on transfers was a bit like that. I didn't like it, it was the worst thing about him as a coach, it's why he ends up with players like Aubameyang, Lukaku and Dier. I don't think he handpicked those players himself as options though. They were just the players suggested by his team around him and the he gave the club the go ahead to sign them.

I feel like people are way too harsh on Tuchel for this when I think this same thing has been happening with our last two managers and even with previous ones. Pochettino, Potter, Sarri, Lampard, how many transfers under any of these managers were handpicked by them? Chilwell and Jorginho are the only ones I can think of.

No manager should hand pick transfers. Else you get ten Hag and United. Even Klopp and Pep don't hand pick players. Their input is considered and they have the final say on who the directors/scouts decide on. Klopp wanted Brandt, Edwards said no and gave him Salah as an alternative, which Klopp accepted. 

It's why the manager/director relationship is the most important one. 

Edited February 26, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

Am not a fan of Matt Law but I can’t really argue with this at all. No pay wall and short read.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/26/mauricio-pochettino-chelsea-job-todd-boehly-behdad-eghbali/

Entirely separate argument. We can't trust these owners/directors to bring in the right man. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

No manager should hand pick transfers. Else you get ten Hag and United. Even Klopp and Pep don't hand pick players. Their input is considered and they have the final say on who the directors/scouts decide on. Klopp wanted Brandt, Edwards said no and gave him Salah as an alternative, which Klopp accepted. 

It's why the manager/director relationship is the most important one. 

The bolded bit is the key part, and I fully agree. 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Entirely separate argument. We can't trust these owners/directors to bring in the right man. 

In a perverse way i am almost not sure that an FFP based transfer embargo wouldn't be a bad thing. At least it would stop these buffoons from running us any nearer to financial ruin for a while.

5 hours ago, strider6004 said:

I picked this up from a different club fan forum,

Chelsea's average age at kick off was 23.36 years, whereas Liverpool's was 25.27 years, and even with the teenagers coming on for extra time, Chelsea's average at the final whistle was 22.64 years, with Liverpool's being 24.09.

Appearance-wise, Chelsea's starting 11 averaged 44.55 appearances for the club, whereas Liverpool's averaged 91.18, and at the final whistle it was 32.91 for Chelsea and 75.36 for Liverpool.

I get that Chelsea's squad was very expensively assembled, but given this whole thing seems to have stemmed from Neville's commentary, he of all people should know that paying a huge fee doesn't equate to output on the pitch, given United's woes over the last decade.
 

 

Rather than starting appearances for the club, why not look at career starting appearances? 

 

Most of those Liverpool youngsters have never played a senior game for another club, whereas our young players were largely poached after shining at other clubs. 

 

I don't buy this narrative that we a have a weak squad, weaker than previous Chelsea squads sure, but our team isn't mid table level.

9 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

I don't buy this narrative that we a have a weak squad, weaker than previous Chelsea squads sure, but our team isn't mid table level.

The squad is midtable.  It's midtable under Poch, midtable before the season started. It was midtable last season under Lampard and it was Midtable last season under Potter.

Yet people will perform extreme mental gymnatics to pretend untalented players who have looked poor under 4 different managers and in many cases didn't look good enough in weaker leagues before we signed them are really top young talents it's bizarre. 

1 minute ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

The squad is midtable.  It's midtable under Poch, midtable before the season started. It was midtable last season under Lampard and it was Midtable last season under Potter.

Yet people will perform extreme mental gymnatics to pretend untalented players who have looked poor under 4 different managers and in many cases didn't look good enough in weaker leagues before we signed them are really top young talents it's bizarre. 

Poch, Lampard and Potter aren't good managers. Maybe Poch was 5 years ago but he was poor at PSG and his tactics have been nonsensical here. 

 

A lot of those 'untalented players' looked fantastic at other clubs. Were Liverpool going for Caicedo because he was untalented? 

Just now, Drogba1 said:

Poch, Lampard and Potter aren't good managers. Maybe Poch was 5 years ago but he was poor at PSG and his tactics have been nonsensical here. 

 

A lot of those 'untalented players' looked fantastic at other clubs. Were Liverpool going for Caicedo because he was untalented? 

Caciedo had 1 season between him being a £4m player.

Poch, Potter and Lampard all have better resumes than Crap players like Madueke who struggled in the dutch league,  Mudryk who had barely any games I'm the Ukranian league, Fofana who was a part timer prior to signing us,  Disasi who was called the slowest defender in Europe by Monaco fans and his partner Badiashille who formed an unimpressive duo in ligue 1.  Cucurella.  Broja.  The ghosts of Nkunku and Lavia the latter of who had played 1 season got related and has barely won a game in his career.

Criticise the managers fair enough but pretending we've signed a team full of top or promising players is delusional.

13 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

Caciedo had 1 season between him being a £4m player.

Poch, Potter and Lampard all have better resumes than Crap players like Madueke who struggled in the dutch league.

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/article/noni-madueke-the-biography

#makesh*tup

8 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

You give our owners too much credit. They're clearly not focused on making money.

They're nowhere near as competent as the Glazers or Levy or any historically "financially focused" owner

They're just absolute idiots.

No one who thinks spending £80m on a crippled young centre back who'd played 7 games in 18 months and £62m+ on a Ukranian with dozens of career games at 22 or £115m on a defensive midfielder who's Club were open to flogging him for less all summer or giving a £60m contract to a midtable manager on £2m a year at Brighton is ever making money in football.

I'm less worried about us being crap which I know we will be long term but more concerned as a club we'll go bust because our owners have a collective football IQ lower than the number of wins we have since they took over.

Lol OK Hazadous sometimes you can be pretty funny. Nice one 👍 

For me the money clouds the issue of our Squad. We have over paid on most of the new players. There was no real fanfare before most of the signings, like there should be for the money. 
 
it was all based on potential, the key is the advice given to pay for these young players. Poch said he wouldn’t put players on the bench that had no chance of playing, hence two goalkeepers. Washington couldn’t even get on the bench where he’s been all season! Just sends the wrong signal to players, unlike Klopp who trusted his kids.

Calmed down a bit from yesterday.

Still upset with that extra time performance though.

Poch in, for the moment, we lost out in extra time because of the different qualities of the mangers IMO - one is elite and the other isn't.

In his defence though, not addressing a proper striker in the summer and throwing pure youngsters from different leagues and expected it all to gel perfectly is a board level failure.

The chances we waste in football matches is unreal, you wouldn't even think they were well paid professional footballers sometimes.

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

Rather than starting appearances for the club, why not look at career starting appearances? 

 

Most of those Liverpool youngsters have never played a senior game for another club, whereas our young players were largely poached after shining at other clubs. 

 

I don't buy this narrative that we a have a weak squad, weaker than previous Chelsea squads sure, but our team isn't mid table level.

I feel a bit like this too. I guess it depends where we think the problem mostly lies. Is it with the players we've got or with the way they are being led and developed? I am leaning towards the problem being mostly with leadership and development. If Liverpool had bought Enzo and Caicedo, I believe they'd be an effective duo by now. I think the difference between the two teams yesterday was largely in the inspiration and confidence built up by the respective managers. Pochettino appears largely passive and imho overwhelmed by the scale of the challenge. Klopp (admittedly with much more experience of winning trophies) was able to inspire his team simply by showing them that he believed in them. If the "we're playing for penalties" thing is true, it says that we don't have a commanding leader in charge, he's not inspirational, he's not going to get people to give everything if they think things are good enough for the boss. 

I don't think Pochettino will change, he's not got a track record of leading teams to win trophies. If we stick with him, we win nothing.   

Who is available?

Nagelsman again? They decided against him before, so would they reconsider?
Tuchel? Presumably not, as they fired him for behind the scenes issues supposedly.
Amorim? Don't know much about him.
 

36 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Who is available?

Nagelsman again? They decided against him before, so would they reconsider?
Tuchel? Presumably not, as they fired him for behind the scenes issues supposedly.
Amorim? Don't know much about him.
 

De Zerbi hinted at leaving this summer

Amorim is on course to win Sportings 2nd league title in 4 years. They hadn't won for 19 years prior to him coming (though Portugese success might not translate to the prem)

Hansi Flick is also free and unemployed

 

There are niche choices like Michel Sanchez (Girona) or Thiago Motta (Bologna), but those 3 above would probably be the likely candidates to take over

Edited February 26, 20242 yr by Drogba1

Amorim is interesting. 

45 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Who is available?

Nagelsman again? They decided against him before, so would they reconsider?
Tuchel? Presumably not, as they fired him for behind the scenes issues supposedly.
Amorim? Don't know much about him.
 

You are in the summer right? Badges all done by then yes?

5 hours ago, Richard P said:

For me the money clouds the issue of our Squad. We have over paid on most of the new players. There was no real fanfare before most of the signings, like there should be for the money. 
 
it was all based on potential, the key is the advice given to pay for these young players. Poch said he wouldn’t put players on the bench that had no chance of playing, hence two goalkeepers. Washington couldn’t even get on the bench where he’s been all season! Just sends the wrong signal to players, unlike Klopp who trusted his kids.

Did it again in the Cup final. For me that is a sackable offence, cos he’d rather play Nkunku out of position as a CF than give a few mins to a €20m youth talent.

8 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

The squad is midtable.  It's midtable under Poch, midtable before the season started. It was midtable last season under Lampard and it was Midtable last season under Potter.

Yet people will perform extreme mental gymnatics to pretend untalented players who have looked poor under 4 different managers and in many cases didn't look good enough in weaker leagues before we signed them are really top young talents it's bizarre. 

Out of the 15 players that featured on Sunday only 2 played under Tuchel for double figure games, 7 played under Potter 3 of them for a mere two months. This sh*t started while most of these players weren't even here.

A large bulk of these players were signed from teams in and around the top or at worst top 4/6 in their league, unless we've by some reverse miracle happened to identify the weakest links in all of those teams then there's not a chance in hell this is a bottom half side.

Edited February 27, 20242 yr by Argo

8 hours ago, Richard P said:

For me the money clouds the issue of our Squad. We have over paid on most of the new players. There was no real fanfare before most of the signings, like there should be for the money. 
 
it was all based on potential, the key is the advice given to pay for these young players. Poch said he wouldn’t put players on the bench that had no chance of playing, hence two goalkeepers. Washington couldn’t even get on the bench where he’s been all season! Just sends the wrong signal to players, unlike Klopp who trusted his kids.

Isn't this a contradiction in itself. Did he think that two keepers would get sent off or that he would make multiple goalkeeping substitutions.

If I was Bettinelli and I heard that I would be "What you don't even class me as a real player, you wouldn't put a player on the bench that you wouldn't use, but screw the goalkeepers,  they don't even warrant thinking about".

What a strange and poor comment to make.

14 hours ago, axman2526 said:

You are in the summer right? Badges all done by then yes?

Unforuntately, I need a few more to be able to coach Chelsea.

6 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Unforuntately, I need a few more to be able to coach Chelsea.

Get on with it then, your club and your forum need you!

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Out of the 15 players that featured on Sunday only 2 played under Tuchel for double figure games, 7 played under Potter 3 of them for a mere two months. This sh*t started while most of these players weren't even here.

A large bulk of these players were signed from teams in and around the top or at worst top 4/6 in their league, unless we've by some reverse miracle happened to identify the weakest links in all of those teams then there's not a chance in hell this is a bottom half side.

I didn't mention Tuchel, let's not pretend the drop off started under Tommy T, we had a poor start to the season but it's nothing compared to the collapse we suffered after bringing in Potter and signing all these untalented young players.

It doesn't matter if these players were at top 6 clubs in the dutch league, the French league, the Ukranian league or the Brazilian U20 league it's a massive "gamble" that any individual player coming from such a poor level can step up to ever be a PL footballer.  

To make that "gamble" with nearly the entire squad is absurdly stupid and Boehly or whoever at Clearlake decided on the strategy should have been gone over a year ago now because it's the anthesis of how to run a successful football club,  if anything it's the clearest strategy of guaranteed failure I've ever seen a club implement.