21 hours ago, 19seventyone said:

Apparently they both signed on the understanding they would not be loaned and would immediately be involved in the first team squad.

You can’t loan players like that out to another team; Andrey Santos is a cautionary tale. You make the space within your team like Madrid did with Rodrygo & Vini, and give them time. The other Brazilian prodigy Reinier Jesus that Madrid bought around the same time and loaned to Dortmund is now a journey man with his most recent loan to Frosinone is Serie A

4 hours ago, Simplymo said:

That's going to be really hard for them, especially at that age. If they ain't strong enough (mentally or physically) that could break them. Even as squad players...3x 17 Yr olds in the first team squad, new country, new league. That can't be right...I really hope they nurture them and integrate them properly. They have talent and potential, to just throw them in the deep end like that.

They will be 18, and I think Martinelli & Gabriel Jesus were integrated at Arsenal & City respectively around the same age. IMO Paez should have very little problems with integration as the club has taken a positive step in having him around for a week this season. He has most likely trained with the first team, and  I can see them repeating the same process for the others. 

 

1 hour ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Also makes it a hell of a lot harder to reach the required level. Vini was ridiculed for years at Madrid before he performed. We've seen with Mudryk all it takes is a decent 30 minute cameo on your debut and you'll get all the leeway you need here. 

The club isn’t expecting them to come on board and be key players immediately, it’s a process. Usually with South American players you give them a 3yr window; took Rodrygo & Vini that time frame to become the players they are today. With our lot I would add an extra year to integrate and get used to the pace of the PL. As long as they are getting enough game time and it’s gradually getting increased, they will be fine.

If one of them ends up at Vini levell the project will be a big success. 

20 hours ago, ducavis said:

You can’t loan players like that out to another team; Andrey Santos is a cautionary tale. You make the space within your team like Madrid did with Rodrygo & Vini, and give them time. The other Brazilian prodigy Reinier Jesus that Madrid bought around the same time and loaned to Dortmund is now a journey man with his most recent loan to Frosinone is Serie A

They will be 18, and I think Martinelli & Gabriel Jesus were integrated at Arsenal & City respectively around the same age. IMO Paez should have very little problems with integration as the club has taken a positive step in having him around for a week this season. He has most likely trained with the first team, and  I can see them repeating the same process for the others. 

 

The club isn’t expecting them to come on board and be key players immediately, it’s a process. Usually with South American players you give them a 3yr window; took Rodrygo & Vini that time frame to become the players they are today. With our lot I would add an extra year to integrate and get used to the pace of the PL. As long as they are getting enough game time and it’s gradually getting increased, they will be fine.

If you want to integrate kids and still compete then you can't have too many in the team. 

Having Palmer, Mudryk, madueke, jackson, gusto are already too many. You add paez and more wonderkid it will be a total mess. 

With kids,  you need big gun who can carry the team (Benzema, Modric, kroos, casemiro, etc2) and give the kids small responsibility so they can grow

 

Edited June 13, 20242 yr by Bob stark

Bloody typical having gone with Maresca, Terzic has now just left Dortmund 

37 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Bloody typical having gone with Maresca, Terzic has now just left Dortmund 

Why in the hell would you have preferred him?

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Why in the hell would you have preferred him?

He's better. His teams play fast attacking football. I don't want another year of having to watch us on highlights only because the football bores me to tears.

40 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

He's better. His teams play fast attacking football. I don't want another year of having to watch us on highlights only because the football bores me to tears.

He has hair, that's out of fashion now. Bald is the future!

13 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Bloody typical having gone with Maresca, Terzic has now just left Dortmund 

The CL run, remarkable as it was, masked a poor BL season. He had been under pressure from fans and management for a long time over selections and muddled tactics. The CL run could have saved his bacon but he knew it was an outlier. He got out while the going was as good as it was ever going to be. 

Nagelsmaann has Germany believing in themselves again. That much is clear. There are no doubt different ways to make a team bond and play to their best, but I think all great managers find a way to do that. Let the players and the team be the best version of itself. I hope Maresca can do that with our lads.

On 13/06/2024 at 09:47, Bob stark said:

If you want to integrate kids and still compete then you can't have too many in the team. 

Having Palmer, Mudryk, madueke, jackson, gusto are already too many. You add paez and more wonderkid it will be a total mess. 

With kids,  you need big gun who can carry the team (Benzema, Modric, kroos, casemiro, etc2) and give the kids small responsibility so they can grow

 

The good thing about age is that when Paez / Estavao ore old enough to be playing for us the players you mentioned will be entering their prime. Realistically they're not going to play for a coupl e of years yet, at which time we'll have Reece James, Nkunku, Gallagher etc. all in their mid to late 20's and in their prime. 

So Enzo meets Pep in the first game.

Interesting.

On 13/06/2024 at 04:47, Bob stark said:

If you want to integrate kids and still compete then you can't have too many in the team. 

Having Palmer, Mudryk, madueke, jackson, gusto are already too many. You add paez and more wonderkid it will be a total mess. 

With kids,  you need big gun who can carry the team (Benzema, Modric, kroos, casemiro, etc2) and give the kids small responsibility so they can grow

 

We have more kids than that in our team, all our players are kids,  in fact the question is "who in our team is not a kid?" --- Used to be Thiago.

Reece James is our Captain and one of the old men of the team and he is a kid.  24.  150 games in his career total.

We do not have any players older than 29 - Sterling.

9 hours ago, IliyaKrostin said:

So Enzo meets Pep in the first game.

Interesting.

Baptism of fire.

Having said that, there is a nice run of fixtures that proceed it. 

Pep v Pep. Gonna be a borefest

13 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

We have more kids than that in our team, all our players are kids,  in fact the question is "who in our team is not a kid?" --- Used to be Thiago.

Reece James is our Captain and one of the old men of the team and he is a kid.  24.  150 games in his career total.

We do not have any players older than 29 - Sterling.

"Distinct differences in peak age can also be seen when comparing age trends by position. Past research found that forwards peak around age 25, defenders at 27, and midfielders somewhere in between (Dendir 2016). Dendir links these to the fact that forwards need to run and shuffle, endure more physical contact, and require more explosive power. Defenders are more stagnant during a game. Hence, defenders benefit most from “acquired learning and experience”. " From a semi academic article I read.

Personally I think experience also matters as well as age. If you start your premier league career at a young age you may well peak earlier. Compare say Drogba and say Wayne Rooney.

However if we look at age and premier league games  the team is probably still two - three seasons away from peak. And based on the quoted text above if you did want to buy in more experience then its defence where experience matters most.

 

I think it's kind of obvious that Maresca has a better situation than either Poch or Potter.  He has  a squad that has spent a year playing together, has experienced the character forming that goes with getting to a cup final and losing and has a year's premier league experience under its belt both as individuals and as a team.

Those are valuable assets if the key players can be kept fit.

Beat Pep on debut and he will have a story to tell grand kids, if he lose nobody would be surprised. Basically, nothing to lose everything to gain first up. It will be interesting to see what kinds of changes he will make to the system, build on what we had from the last 1/4 of the season, or start from scratch.

1 hour ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Beat Pep on debut and he will have a story to tell grand kids, if he lose nobody would be surprised. Basically, nothing to lose everything to gain first up. It will be interesting to see what kinds of changes he will make to the system, build on what we had from the last 1/4 of the season, or start from scratch.

Yep. This is how I see it. I think our squad fits very well to face open sides like City is. Maresca knows exactly how City plays. All the pressure should be on Pep to get one point at least.

8 hours ago, ozboy said:

"Distinct differences in peak age can also be seen when comparing age trends by position. Past research found that forwards peak around age 25, defenders at 27, and midfielders somewhere in between (Dendir 2016). Dendir links these to the fact that forwards need to run and shuffle, endure more physical contact, and require more explosive power. Defenders are more stagnant during a game. Hence, defenders benefit most from “acquired learning and experience”. " From a semi academic article I read.

Personally I think experience also matters as well as age. If you start your premier league career at a young age you may well peak earlier. Compare say Drogba and say Wayne Rooney.

However if we look at age and premier league games  the team is probably still two - three seasons away from peak. And based on the quoted text above if you did want to buy in more experience then its defence where experience matters most.

 

 

I think in general players are going to have longer careers and so there is a possibility of peaking later in their careers.  The past research [a lot has changed in only 10 years] is super interesting, but in the top tier of players there are many outliers.  Lewandowski and Ronaldo are still going strong, and though maybe not at their peak they are not far from it.

All players could benefit most from “acquired learning and experience” . lol. Intuition and instinct is not always going to cut it.

I think one of the major problems with our squad of young diamonds is the lack or role models in the squad.  The lack of players with the experience. The players to learn from in games and on the training ground.  Young real Madrid players can learn from Modric. Arsenal players from Jorghino.  etc.  What does Sterling have to offer in terms of lurning the football trade?

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Yep. This is how I see it. I think our squad fits very well to face open sides like City is. Maresca knows exactly how City plays. All the pressure should be on Pep to get one point at least.

Eay easy for Pep. He'll get three. 

There was a bit on the beeb about how maresca is focusing on the academy, loanees, etc during pre-season. He's definitely taking the 2x 19yr old strasbourg kids according to the text.

I like that...but also, finally get to see a hint of how good these kids are during the pre-season games.

I've been watching/reading tons of maresca vids/articles and I can't wait for the season to start tbh. Especially if he had a big hand in making palmer what he is (according to some articles/vids) then I'm looking forward to what he does with the rest of the kids.

Again, I know I'm in the minority and many will hate the way Maresca sets the team up* but I miss the bridge being a fortress. (I also miss other players being scared to go there, no idea how that will work with teenagers/kids! Lol)

Also there was quite a few Leicester players praising Maresca as very technical and a genius. 🤞 

*there was a quote about 90% of goals will not be counter attacks. And it's an average of 45-50 passes before scoring. 🤣 😂 

You kind of have to call a man a genius who makes Harry Winks an amazing player 🤣...That quote was from Winks. 

Anyway...the current Pep's City is much more versatile and direct than his early City or his Bayern. He had to utilize Debruyne - Haaland combo and that isn't at its best in congested attacks. 

Maybe Maresca is using the squad, at his helm, the best possible way and won't squeeze players into uncomfortable or unorthodox roles like Tuchel or Conte did. 

His short history as main coach tells he is very rigid and he only plays the football he knows. That means the squad need to flex around his ideas.

Pep flexed his squad by using the Amex for 5-6 years buying players that fit his ideas ultimately to win the treble.

15 hours ago, Simplymo said:

but I miss the bridge being a fortress.

31 goals scored in the last 9 home games last season ... 8 wins and a draw.

The ground work has been laid !

4 hours ago, evissy said:

You kind of have to call a man a genius who makes Harry Winks an amazing player 🤣...That quote was from Winks. 

Anyway...the current Pep's City is much more versatile and direct than his early City or his Bayern. He had to utilize Debruyne - Haaland combo and that isn't at its best in congested attacks. 

Maybe Maresca is using the squad, at his helm, the best possible way and won't squeeze players into uncomfortable or unorthodox roles like Tuchel or Conte did. 

His short history as main coach tells he is very rigid and he only plays the football he knows. That means the squad need to flex around his ideas.

Pep flexed his squad by using the Amex for 5-6 years buying players that fit his ideas ultimately to win the treble.

Christ don't mention Amex around here. We're all Brighton-phobic now