Azpilicueta next to Cahill and we'll see an improvement.

 

100%.

Azpilicueta next to Cahill and we'll see an improvement.

100%.

I'd go along with that.

Azpilicueta next to Cahill and we'll see an improvement.

 

100%.

 

This.

 

Ivanovic leaves too much space and isn't as fast as Azpi to make it up.

As much as I love Ivan, I have to go along with the last few posts.  I don't have any fancy software that'd let me draw up an "area covered" by each player, but one thing is for sure, when you see us start games, Ivan is already up at the Half Way line, while the rest of the defence are only about 1/4-1/3 of a way up the pitch.  That, combined with Cesc's role of pushing forward, leaves a MASSIVE area in behind Ivan that is easily exposed, and was recently exposed by Rose and Kane of Tottenham.

 

Gary is a solid defender.  As we all know he came from Bolton and I feel last season he had elevated himself to a level much above Bolton.  However, he is still a rather limited defender.  He gives attackers a lot of space, and that combined with a central midfielder and a right back both ahead of him and pushing further up the pitch, leaves Gary very exposed.  And it would take an amazing amount of last-ditch defending for Gary to use his traits effectively to shut down that space (look at his last ditch defending against Benfica in the Europa Final).

 

I really think the problem is Ivan thinking he's a winger these days.  It exposes our right side, and exposes the flaws in Cahill's game as a result.  Also, given that Matic was dire against Spuds, Cahill was on a hiding to nothing.

 

I used to think that Cahill would be groomed to be the next Captain, the next English defender to step up and take the helm from Terry.  Think I jumped the gun a bit there, but I'm certainly not advocating he be dropped for the rest of the season.

 

Zouma does look very good.  Ivan is probably not getting dropped any time soon by Jose, but he needs to have one of those electric dog collars on for whenever he thinks about roaming forward and putting in a cross.  Azpi is a much better defender, and has a better cross.  I think Ivan has a better finish, but that's not that main trait I'd look for in deciding who to play at RB

Jose is using Ivan like that deliberately though. He is basically our only target from all goal kicks, 99% of them go to the right wing for him to head on, and he is encouraged to bomb on and provide crosses, so whoever plays at RCB is going to be left somewhat exposed.

He hasn't had the greatest season, but he has been quality for us in the past.

At Bolton he looked like this nice ball playing CB,for us he looks sh*t scared anytime he has the ball at his feet when he's getting closed down.

Edited January 5, 201511 yr by Floyd25

Jose is using Ivan like that deliberately though. He is basically our only target from all goal kicks, 99% of them go to the right wing for him to head on, and he is encouraged to bomb on and provide crosses, so whoever plays at RCB is going to be left somewhat exposed.

 

What is worrying, to me, about this statement, is that we're using a RB as our only target man and deliberately exposing Cahill.  I see both of those as problems, and I think playing Azpi at RB negates one of those problems somewhat.  I can't remember if it was the Tottenh*m 4th goal or what, but Ivan was way up the pitch and was jogging back to try and cover when they scored.  That's an issue

His attitude is excellent and he will will be a great defender for a purely counter-attacking team with a deep back line. That is not how we want to play unfortunately. We need defenders who can pass the ball out of a tight spot. Cahill will never be one. Hopefully Zouma is. If Zouma isn't up to the challenge yet, I would seriously consider a counter-attacking game plan in every away game (where the current back two thrive) for the rest of the season.

 

^This. When we are 'parking the bus', Cahill is excellent. But we are trying to play a higher line this season given that we want to take the initiative in games more often than not. As a result, we need a centre-half next to JT who is better on the ball and has some pace. Varane would be ideal and from what I can tell also a plausible target in many ways.

Edited January 6, 201511 yr by Celery1989

Theres one thing about Ivan pushing up the field, its quite another thing to watch him be severly out of position defensively when the opposition is pinning us back. He constantly drifts towards the middle or gets caught ballwatching leaving a massive space to exploit which again, puts more pressure on Cahill. This is not by design, this is Ivan and his lack of concentration. He has always done this, this year we are conceeding more goals from it so it sticks out more, but its nothing new. As with every player you have to evaluate the good with the bad, judging by how Jose rates Ivan its something he is willing to sacrifice, I dont expect this to change any time soon

Theres one thing about Ivan pushing up the field, its quite another thing to watch him be severly out of position defensively when the opposition is pinning us back. He constantly drifts towards the middle or gets caught ballwatching leaving a massive space to exploit which again, puts more pressure on Cahill. This is not by design, this is Ivan and his lack of concentration. He has always done this, this year we are conceeding more goals from it so it sticks out more, but its nothing new. As with every player you have to evaluate the good with the bad, judging by how Jose rates Ivan its something he is willing to sacrifice, I dont expect this to change any time soon

 

Good point about Ivanovic. I'm quite worried about the right side of our defence, we've looked so vulnerable there all season whilst the left side seems almost impregnable at times.

I've always been of the opinion that if a CB starts making frequent mistakes like Cahill has been of late, the defensive aspect of the pivot also needs to be called into question, i.e. although Fabregas' tackling isn't too bad, he just doesn't have the physicality to muscle opponents off the ball like Mikel can nor does he have the positional sense of Makelele for example.

 

Of course, the flip side to Brano pushing up the field is that, in drawing opponents to that side, space is created on the opposite flank for Hazard to work his magic.

 

It will be interesting to see over the coming weeks whether Mou sticks to status quo or we move to a more resilient 4-3-3 when playing away...

Edited January 6, 201511 yr by the special one

Good point about Ivanovic. I'm quite worried about the right side of our defence, we've looked so vulnerable there all season whilst the left side seems almost impregnable at times.

 

You also have to consider that Matic covers that side if Hazard can't get back. Cesc does the other side. There is a big difference in their defensive quality. In the early games especially Cesc's poor positioning combined with new partnership kinks (with Matic) left the right side quite vulnerable.

Edited January 6, 201511 yr by venom2011

As much as I love Ivan, I have to go along with the last few posts.  I don't have any fancy software that'd let me draw up an "area covered" by each player, but one thing is for sure, when you see us start games, Ivan is already up at the Half Way line, while the rest of the defence are only about 1/4-1/3 of a way up the pitch.  That, combined with Cesc's role of pushing forward, leaves a MASSIVE area in behind Ivan that is easily exposed, and was recently exposed by Rose and Kane of Tottenham.

 

Gary is a solid defender.  As we all know he came from Bolton and I feel last season he had elevated himself to a level much above Bolton.  However, he is still a rather limited defender.  He gives attackers a lot of space, and that combined with a central midfielder and a right back both ahead of him and pushing further up the pitch, leaves Gary very exposed.  And it would take an amazing amount of last-ditch defending for Gary to use his traits effectively to shut down that space (look at his last ditch defending against Benfica in the Europa Final).

 

I really think the problem is Ivan thinking he's a winger these days.  It exposes our right side, and exposes the flaws in Cahill's game as a result.  Also, given that Matic was dire against Spuds, Cahill was on a hiding to nothing.

 

I used to think that Cahill would be groomed to be the next Captain, the next English defender to step up and take the helm from Terry.  Think I jumped the gun a bit there, but I'm certainly not advocating he be dropped for the rest of the season.

 

Zouma does look very good.  Ivan is probably not getting dropped any time soon by Jose, but he needs to have one of those electric dog collars on for whenever he thinks about roaming forward and putting in a cross.  Azpi is a much better defender, and has a better cross.  I think Ivan has a better finish, but that's not that main trait I'd look for in deciding who to play at RB

I think the way ivanovic plays and the positions he takes up is definitely 100% by design. that is how jose wants it.

 

I think he likes the fact that from goal kicks ivanovic against a leftback / winger is going to result in us winning the ball in the opposition half most of the time.

 

also, ivanovic is an extra player who is strong attacking and defending set pieces and I think jose would hate losing that.

 

he's never been a manager who likes two attacking fullbacks so it suits him that playing on the left curbs azpilicueta's ability to get forward and cross, which in turn reduces the defensive work required from hazard.

 

I'm not convinced azpilicueta is overall a better attacker than ivanovic. he's a better crosser, but I think he is a more conservative player. I don't think he'd be as happy making as many forward runs or overlaps and in some ways that is more important than how good a crosser he is. bran is like ashley cole- great at making forward runs and keeping the width, average at crossing. actually bran's a bit better than cole at that for my money, but still.

 

as for cahill- I've always said the exact same thing: "good but not great". I don't see zouma being a better option in the short term and in any case I'd back  gaz to come back strong anyway. our defence is still the best in the league in my opinion and I don't see jose changing his preferred back four short of us signing someone like varane.

Ivan also gives us the option of switching to a back three when we're chasing a game. It hasn't been needed much this season, but certainly we did it quite a bit last season.

Don't think anyone is questioning that Jose is telling Ivan make those runs, the problem is he's slow getting back. I highly doubt Jose is telling him to jog back to position rather than sprint and cover the gaps he's left. 

Agree that the issue is probably related to balance. I do think Ramires is likely to play more on that right side of central midfield as the season goes on with Cesc deployed further forward. That will provide a little more cover.

It's a question of risk v reward. Ivan has been a titanic influence for us going forward. Running at defenders and getting to the byline is where he is valuable. Naturally that has left us a little more exposed, but surely that is preferable to endless aimless crosses from deep like we have seen in the past.

Don't think anyone is questioning that Jose is telling Ivan make those runs, the problem is he's slow getting back. I highly doubt Jose is telling him to jog back to position rather than sprint and cover the gaps he's left. 

 

I think that's really unfair. I've seen Ivanovic bust a gut to get back into position more times than I can hope to count this season but there's only so much the guy can do.

 

The facts are that he has played more minutes than anyone else except for JT, yet he is expected to provide almost all of the width on the right flank simply because Willian tends to drift inside.

 

If you fancy playing a drinking game that gets you absolutely f**ked then take a shot every time Ivanovic is the out-ball on the right flank. I don't think there's a single player who works as hard as Ivanovic in our team, he has to contest for almost every ball for a goal-kick and he shuts down that right flank completely for opposing keepers.

 

Go back and watch the Spurs home game. I was sat behind Lloris in the first half and he hesitated every time he went to kick the ball because he knew he couldn't go to Ivanovic's side, so instead he kicked across his body which became predictable and led to about 4 turnovers.

 

It's why I find comments about him jogging back hilarious.

I think the way ivanovic plays and the positions he takes up is definitely 100% by design. that is how jose wants it.

 

I think he likes the fact that from goal kicks ivanovic against a leftback / winger is going to result in us winning the ball in the opposition half most of the time.

 

also, ivanovic is an extra player who is strong attacking and defending set pieces and I think jose would hate losing that.

 

he's never been a manager who likes two attacking fullbacks so it suits him that playing on the left curbs azpilicueta's ability to get forward and cross, which in turn reduces the defensive work required from hazard.

 

I'm not convinced azpilicueta is overall a better attacker than ivanovic. he's a better crosser, but I think he is a more conservative player. I don't think he'd be as happy making as many forward runs or overlaps and in some ways that is more important than how good a crosser he is. bran is like ashley cole- great at making forward runs and keeping the width, average at crossing. actually bran's a bit better than cole at that for my money, but still.

 

as for cahill- I've always said the exact same thing: "good but not great". I don't see zouma being a better option in the short term and in any case I'd back  gaz to come back strong anyway. our defence is still the best in the league in my opinion and I don't see jose changing his preferred back four short of us signing someone like varane.

 

Agreed with a lot of that.  If it is by design, the issue I have is it leaves that entire right side over exposed.  Ivan has an off day, or Cesc shirks his defensive duties, and it can get pretty hairy down that side.

 

Just to be clear, and I'm not sure if you were directing this at me - but you quoted me, I never said Azpi was a better attacker.  I said better defender (maybe because he doesn't maraud forward as much as you've said), with a better cross.

Agreed with a lot of that.  If it is by design, the issue I have is it leaves that entire right side over exposed.  Ivan has an off day, or Cesc shirks his defensive duties, and it can get pretty hairy down that side.

 

Just to be clear, and I'm not sure if you were directing this at me - but you quoted me, I never said Azpi was a better attacker.  I said better defender (maybe because he doesn't maraud forward as much as you've said), with a better cross.

I wasn't directing that at you, just a general point.

 

I guess jose thinks the risk in having a slightly defensively soft right hand side is worth the risk given how much possession we have in most games.

I wasn't directing that at you, just a general point.

 

I guess jose thinks the risk in having a slightly defensively soft right hand side is worth the risk given how much possession we have in most games.

 

Thanks G3.7, I thought it was merely an observation, and one I agree with.

 

I think SPurs, unfortunately, realized this (your second point) and closed us down.  They played a high pressing game, and hurried us off the ball more so than most other premiership sides I've seen this season.  It left Ivan, and thus Cahill, exposed a few times.  That, couple with their clinical finishing on the day, made it very difficult for us to cope.  Dare I say, we almost needed Mikel at one point.

There have been a number of games where I think the back four / three are keeping the line too far up the pitch especially when neither Terry or Cahill have any real pace or ability to turn quickly against the oppositions forward runner, this leaves Courtois woefully exposed especially when Ivan is stranded up the pitch when an attack breaks down.  Terry and Cahill are OK against sides with no speedy forwards and a mediocre midfield that we can overrun easily.  We were caught out several times against the Spuds and we have been exposed on more than a few occasions against other teams who fortunately did not take their chances.  I have maintained all season that Ivan should not be playing RB as he leaves the right side exposed time and time again and allows too much space allowing crosses and opposition players to attack.  He naturally drifts to the centre and you will find him more often than not on the right edge of the D rather than the right hand edge of the box.  I still maintain that Ivan / Cahill and Terry should rotate with Zouma coming in when required and eventually taking over Terry's position; with Dave and Luis holding their own on the flanks.  Varane would certainly be a good addition however. 

Agree with the above, not sure if the Ivan bombing forward tactic is paying off. Be interesting to see what the statistic says. In recent games, just about every hopefully long ball finds an attacker on our right flank with Ivan or Willian scrambling.

Every time I see the title of this thread I think, "Yes, he's quite good, but he's not very good, and we need very good."

 

He neither tries to challenge or tries to block Sterling's effort for their goal.

 

Sure, it was a good goal, but a top defender is making it a hell of a lot harder for Sterling to score.

 

They're showing a lot more nous for one thing, your top defenders.

 

An isolated incident? I'm afraid it's not. There's almost always at least one moment every game where you see Cahill is not quite up to the required level, whether he's playing for England or Chelsea.

 

Terry has had a lot better defensive partners, in my opinion.

 

Sure, we're top of the league and challenging on four fronts, but as we get nearer to squeaky-bum time, he's the one I worry about most.

 

Just my opinion.

Cahill is a solid defender but JT makes him look better than he really is. The best thing that can happen to a CB is to be paired with JT.

Really is out of form and lacking confidence at the moment