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Poll: Do you agree with the decision to sack José?


Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

Do you agree with José's sacking?  

131 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree with José's sacking?

    • Yes
      46
    • No
      85


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This season mistakes

selling luis felipe

Wasn't his choice

bringing in Falcao

Agreed

letting Remy rot on the bench

Agree to an extent but it's a simplistic view and not as easy as you make out

letting Cech go to Arsenal

Massively tried everything to block the move, this point just discredits everything

playing Ivanovich at rightback

playing Azpi at left back

Baba has proved not ready

not playing young hungry players

same formation

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Hmm, is it me? I think the chance of relegation is greater without him than with him, but that's just me ...

 

We are into unknown territory now, we have the squad that could easily get the new manager boost and win 8 of the next 10 and blow away any fears of the drop. Get the wrong man and we could go into freefall. Who says football is boring?

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For those of you that think we had no choice but to sack him, what happens if we end up getting relegated, how would you feel about us sacking him then ?

Can only cross that bridge if it happens, which I very much doubt, the players where not playing for him, so if he was still manager that scenario could have been a real possibility with him.

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We are into unknown territory now, we have the squad that could easily get the new manager boost and win 8 of the next 10 and blow away any fears of the drop. Get the wrong man and we could go into freefall. Who says football is boring?

At this time I think I'd settle for boring .

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It was far from the first sign of trouble though. I suspect that if it wasn't for his unique relationship with the fans then he probably would have gotten the chop months ago.

We're league champions because of Jose.

We're playing sh*t no question but why give him a four year contract in the summer and then sack him less then six months later.

It sends out the wrong message, that contract was supposed to be about being in it for the long haul but it ended up being nothing more than a nice sentiment.

The players have embarrassed themselves with the situation this season, there's no excuses for them being in this position.

I'd have stuck with Jose and come what may let him swing the axe on a squad full of underachievers.

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i always wondered if roman was looking for the first opportunity to sack jose. he was always looking for youth integration and attractive football, neither of which jose was providing. i still believe roman's main man is guardiola and wouldn't be surprised if he makes him no.1 priority now. there is talk elsewhere of simeone definitely lined up, but it's just tiny rumblings and more likely opportunist journos. 

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We're league champions because of Jose.

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with my post, but I can think of a few other people who also played a part.

 

We're playing sh*t no question but why give him a four year contract in the summer and then sack him less then six months later.

 

I think you answered your own question there before you even asked it.

 

The players have embarrassed themselves with the situation this season, there's no excuses for them being in this position.

I'd have stuck with Jose and come what may let him swing the axe on a squad full of underachievers.

 

Again, nothing to do with what I said but fair points. I do agree about the players, some of them anyway. 

 

By the way I don't necessarily agree with the sacking, my point was that this was not the first sign of trouble (as you said) but half a season of trouble that has shown no signs of lessening.

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I say there are not only other viable options, but better options. January transfer window arrives, boom another option.

 

you think the answer is to transfer our way out of this mess in january? who would you sell? and to whom and for what? who would you buy and for what? you are seriously underestimating how severe and deep rooted a problem there is/ was and how hard it is to make huge, effective changes during a window- let alone the winter window.

 

So you admit Mourinho could win the BPL with MUFC within a few seasons but argue that Mourinho can't succeed here, where he already has?  Sorry, Im just going to let that one hang in the wind.  I think it kind of addresses itself.

 

with respect this is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on these forums in all iterations. you genuinely- genuinely- think that you've used logic here, don't you? christ. this is like when people smugly declared the world to be flat.

 

the point is that he has created an atmosphere that exists as long as he is in place as manager. that can't be undone. you seem to think I am saying that in six months he's stopped being a great manager.

 

you're not taking into account the way context specific cumulative factors affect things.

at another club he wouldn't have the context of:

 

-severely criticising the players in his squad in public

-erratically speaking about the form of the team,

-personally taking credit for something they achieved as a group

-having publicly and wrongly criticised two non playing members of staff

-not apologising for that criticism

-demoting said members of staff

-publicly challenging the board to sack him

-attempting to overlap pre season with the competitive season

 

at a new club none of those things would have any bearing on how effective a manager he is. at chelsea all of the above combined have had a clear and pronounced effect. and once you lose a dressing room as a manager you never recover.

 

 

Mourinho is responsible for tactics, not individual performances.

 

I genuinely don't know if you actually believe this

 

 Im getting sh*t because I give credit to JM for Hazard finally winning BPL player of the season when he couldnt even win CFC player of the season prior,

 

either he's responsible for individual performances or not. you can't have it both ways.

 

yet we now freely give credit to JM for the poor performances? 

 

he's complicit in both good and bad individual performances. obviously.

 

but above all it is the manager who is responsible for the performance of the team AS A WHOLE.

 

 

Speaks to my naivety that Mourinho could rapidly change the squad without spending massive?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1DJGAPoMuk

 

f*cking hell you genuinely think he can replace the vast majority of the squad to get out of this mess. yeah that is naive.

 

please read the following carefully:

 

replacing parts of the squad over a few windows when the team is behind you and functioning as well as it can in order to make marginal gains is NOT the same as replacing almost the entire team who are not behind you and no longer respond to your methods in an attempt to perform some dr frankenstein full body surgery of the squad in an attempt to rip up everything at start again from scratch. 

 

this is not football manager. in fact even in football manager you might get sacked for this. just ask barak.

 

 

I'm a big fan of believing someone can do something when they have already proven they can.....Did you forget?

 

this probably sounded better in your head, where it belongs, than written down, where it is easy to take apart. firstly I refer you to the stuff about context. secondly, the logical extension of this 'big belief' of yours is that the entire playing squad should remain the same because they've already proven they can win the title. OH WAIT THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF YOUR FOOTBALL MANAGER TRADING CARDS SUPER JANUARY WINDOW STRATEGY.

 

Why inst the position of some players untenable?  Their contracts are no stronger and you can actually get paid for getting shot of them, you dont have to buy out their contract.

 

because they are not responsible for the toxic atmosphere one imagines the dressing room to be at the moment. but also because they need to agree to leave. they need to find clubs who will pay them equally. we would need to find buyers. everyone in football would know it would be a buyers market as jose wanted them out. we'd then be bent over trying to get replacements. with no guarantee of an improvement in quality, and no guarantee that the atmosphere is confined to just the players.  I think this should be the last season of a couple of players in the squad for various reasons. but jose was the root cause of our issues.

 

We all slate Mourinho because he hasn't mixed things up.  Fair enough.  Yet here are the facts.  The tactics and selections that has lead to a relegation fight this season are the same tactics and selections that won the BPL and CC last season.

 

yes, he's the same manager.

 

Same squad and tactics but a difference between Champions of British football and British Championship football.  So quite clearly, if we think about it in a logical manner, we see that the results have vastly differed to the point where we must look at the execution of those tactics.  That's the players job and as bad as we want Mourino to be at fault for that, he doesnt control their efforts nor does he control what exactly they do on the pitch.  He can only set them up.  

 

see contextual factors again. and really do read them. what I would add is that at the top level what makes the difference is man management. and jose's has ceased to be effective with this group.

 

And if it was the managers failings and not a case of huge culpability from the players, then why is the difference so drastic?

 

because of literally everything I've said.

 

 

Well maybe it's just me but this seems to be digressing, so I'll try and keep it brief.

 

You seem to indicate the players have no culpability, or atleast are justified in being relegation fodder when they clearly have the ability to win the league.  Yes they have proven they can win the league, Mourinho has thrice...and in every league he has managerd in....and toss in numerous European and domestic cups.  Hmmm.

 

Basic management, you don't have to change the entire personnel in a team to change it's attitude.   They have the talent, they lack the mentality (refer to why they needed such a head strong manager to win).  A few key changes and its a whole new team not just in mentality/attitude but potentially in shape/form/performance etc.  

 

Im niave to think something can be done despite me just showing you it was done and you admitting it?  Does my head in.  It was real f**king life g.7, not Football Manager.  Gary Neville actually exists!  It wasnt CGI!!!!  It might of seemed like something requiring your special card pack or whatever, but it didnt.  Just some good planning and backing a proven manager.

 

Anyways it's pretty annoying trying to respond to you point by point with the manner you use qoutes but I will refer briefly to your 8 point rant of why Mourinho is untenable.

 

-severely criticising the players in his squad in public -I think many would agree that severe criticism is merited when the BPL champions are fighting for BPL survival.  That aside, please provide the examples of where Mourinho went across the line.  Please refrain from using things like tabloid headlines ("Mourinho claims players betray him" headline frefers to a direct quote of "I feel that my game plan was betrayed, is that the right word".  Hilarious seeing Sami Mokbel admit the headline was completely inaccurate and misleading but that it was a good headline and its justified because clearly Mourinho wanted the media to create a reaction for him, that's why he used that word he was uncertain about LOL seems a bit of that mentality here.)

-erratically speaking about the form of the team, -Erratically.  Great word.  Aptly used in description of the form of CFC this season, no?  Grasping is a good word too, aptly used to describe some of these points.

-personally taking credit for something they achieved as a group - I'll await all the direct quotes of him saying he is alone responsible.  I, of course, will refer you to the many times he praises the squad and specific players if you think that him taking some credit himself equates to thinking he did it alone.

-having publicly and wrongly criticised two non playing members of staff - Oh, Eva point one.  He handled it poorly, so did Eva.  Thats why the other person involved seems to be happily earning their living at CFC

-not apologising for that criticism - Eva point two! You'd give the lawyers representing Eva a wet dream.  Just give them a blank cheque in the settlement while you're at it.  

-demoting said members of staff - Eva point three.  This is the last one, right?  You're not one of her lawyers are you?  It's just that in a point of why Mourinho can't manage Chelsea, nearly half of them relate to an ex-employee who was easily replaced. Anyways, as to why this is yet another absurd point to make, Mourinho is not the Owner, President, or CEO of Chelsea FC.  He is not a director, he does not sit at the head of the board.  He isn't even in charge of the medical department.  Mourinho may have influence, but the only way that course of action happens is with the consent and approval of the actual management of Chelsea FC.  See, Mourinho is the manager....but only of the first team.  Players and coaching staff aside, I don't think they run staff decisions by him....well certainly not with board members like Emenalo it would appear, and Wilkins with Ancelotti clearly shows the actual staff management of CFC is far removed from the hands of the first team manager) 

-publicly challenging the board to sack him -  Oh, a valuid point?  Sure.  If you're going to cut your nose off to spite your face, it happens. But you love context and provided so little here.  Was this out of the blue?  Did it not follow decades of exactly that happening?  After week in and out of media speculation that it was in fact coming?   Most people of (relatively) great success are typically somewhat prideful and it seems the board took some of this into consideration. 

-attempting to overlap pre season with the competitive season  -Don't even know what you mean here.  If you are referring to the terrible pre-season, then I agree in principle but think you are barking up the wrong tree.  Compare the pre-season of when we on the league to this pre-season.  Just give a quick guess which one was by Mourinho's mandate and which one placed commercial ventures ahead of the teams preparations.

 

 

How you can think the players have no responsibility for the state of the dressing room atmosphere is beyond me.  If you truely think that, then you further prove my point that its part of the squad needing changing first and foremost.  You better believe our past core would of had a big hand in that dressing room atmosphere.  That's the difference between serial winners and those who taste it once and aren't willing to work hard for it again.

 

 

As for getting bent over in terms of replacements.  Now we get that with managers and players, because whatever manager risks another ride on the managerial carousel would be a fool to trust this squad as it's currently composed.  Not many managers have the player pull as Mourinho (who'd ever of thought of Cesc here?), especially when CL footy isnt looking like a thing we'll have nest season.

 

Add to that, firing Mourinho might end up the biggest transfer related expense this year.  

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For those of you that think we had no choice but to sack him, what happens if we end up getting relegated, how would you feel about us sacking him then ?

We wont be relegated, the players are gonna turn on now that Jose is gone. And if theyd have just got on with doing their jobs when he was here we wouldnt have been in danger of either. You dont like the manager? Wait for the window to open and ask for a transfer.

Id still want him to stay even if we were relegated. We'd get some young players in, save some money for when we went straight back up and teach some of these entitled players a lesson.

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Sad, but he has been going downhill since waging war on the press in Italy in my opinion. He's gone from loveable, funny and uncompromising to paranoid and overly rigid.

I think he has a lot more 'values' that he tries to impose on players/staff/media than what he did initially. When you fight in such an uncompromising way you're inevitably and intentionally putting your head in the noose. It was his way or nothing and in the end it didn't work in reality.

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Sad, but he has been going downhill since waging war on the press in Italy in my opinion. He's gone from loveable, funny and uncompromising to paranoid and overly rigid.

I think he has a lot more 'values' that he tries to impose on players/staff/media than what he did initially. When you fight in such an uncompromising way you're inevitably and intentionally putting your head in the noose. It was his way or nothing and in the end it didn't work in reality.

 

5 weeks ago I would have agreed with you - however at this point I don't (regarding his attitude, especially to the press/FA).  

 

He tried as hard as he could to create the siege mentality which has served his teams well over the course of his career.  At one point his defense of Diego and his ridiculously aggressive antics bordered on absurd, considering how much his play was hurting our team's performances.  Then however, he switched the flip and took the attitude that the fans were, and hanging him out to dry to try and provoke a positive reaction.

 

In the end, I think the only big attitude mistake he made was with Eva (which I still maintain was a huge one).  Everything else was Jose, increasingly desperately, trying to find any angle to get the players to start committing to the cause like they had done in the past.  In retrospect I don't blame him for the refereeing rants, taking on the media, defending the players to the hill, throwing the individual players under the bus - he tried everything that he could to get last season back - just nothing gelled with the squad.

Edited by Zola's Love Child
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He just hauled in 2 trophies

One the prem

A comp we'd been shut out of since 2010

The man deserved a transfer window

Typical nasty ruthless manner from board

after Xmas team staff lunch

So no then.........carefree

Next please

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I think he's lost the plot a bit, but I was genuinely gutted when I heard the news yesterday, but the football and effort from everyone has been utter dire.

 

 

I hope a few players go with him to be honest, and I'd cash in on Hazard now, if someone like PSG were stupid enough to offer silly money (see David Luiz).

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Agree with what others have put.

Sad to see him go but if you look at this season it's been pretty dire, and he keeps picking the same players despite having options.

End of the day he's paid to manage and he hasn't managed very well this season. Still love the guy though and will hate it if he reappears at Manure or le Arse.

Hopefully we get Gus as interim, and if FSW or Brenda turn up whole damn board needs shooting

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Sad, but he has been going downhill since waging war on the press in Italy in my opinion. He's gone from loveable, funny and uncompromising to paranoid and overly rigid.

I think he has a lot more 'values' that he tries to impose on players/staff/media than what he did initially .

Interesting point you make. Graham Hunter was on Talksport last night and he pretty much said the same thing - based on conversations that he's had with former players.

He said since Inter, the lovable and charming Jose has gone and had changed. It was now about following his orders, confrontation.

I tend to agree, that charming Jose didn't seem to be there and the players definitely did not seem to have the same bond with him.

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