Because of the turn around in our performances, are we saying if Hiddink had of took over from day one of this season we would be title contenders, because these are near enough the players that strolled the PL last season, a different tune from the same instrument!!

 

Given a straight choice between Conte and Simeone, the long term leader of the long term poll, I would prefer the Italian primarily because of his attacking style of play and the premise upon which it is built - founded on a strong defence even though a high line is played. That said, his critics in Italy would surely highlight the fact that use of a 3-5-2 formation and a midfield diamond always means that the grip on space in the last third is insecure, especially when you are forced to defend deep and under pressure against top quality teams. Panda can confirm, but wasn’t Conte’s 3-5-2 title-winning team troubled most by sides with good wingers and if anything didn‘t he almost exclusively operate with a back three rather than using the more defensive 5-3-2 for any length of time? 

 

It seems to me that in this system the wider of three centre-backs need to play out closer to the touchline to cover the two wing-backs and past failures of the formation in the Premiership were probably due to those two defenders inability to adapt, the magnetic pull to the centre being too great for old school central defenders often too set in their ways. Also, the Juve midfield three had Pirlo operating in a deeper position in front of the back three, with Pogba and Vidal in front - roles that would presumably be taken by a deep-lying Fabregas with permutations of Willian, Oscar, Mikel, Matic and RLC ahead of the playmaker and in such circumstances I agree with ShedEnder91, namely that it would not bode well for Matic or Mikel, nor would there be much point in playing Hazard out wide in this system.   

 

Perhaps Panda could also comment on the front two situation - when Tevez and Llorente played Juve had a plus forty 45 goal difference and as I see it the only forward comparison to be made with us at present is Costa partnering Pato (Edin simply isn’t scoring enough goals) a scenario not only presupposing that they would hit it off together, but also banking on the latter reliving past glory in terms of form-finding - and who really knows what the chances are of that happening? Hazard could play the role ‘theoretically’, as Panda suggests, but Chelsea fans have seen this drifting in from the left and linking play in actual practice and I’m not sure it can be described as an unqualified success. Indeed, our Juve friend’s next sentence says it all for me…

 

“He [Conte] then moved to a 3-5-2 as he felt that this gave his side more control and exploited his team's strongest points (3 superb central defenders, and 3 superb central midfielders) whilst minimising their poorer aspects (a lack of strength on the wings and up front). He has since used all three formations with Italy.”

  

At the moment our ‘strongest points’ are definitely not 3 superb central defenders (although long term Christiansen, Zouma and Miazga could be), but we do have superb central midfielders and there are several coming through from the Development Squads (Corkett, Scott, Houghton, Ali and Palmer) as well as having the likes of Swift, Baker, van Ginkel, Boga, Piazon and Musonda out on loan. Admittedly, the wing back area is weaker, the age gap between Dave/Baba and Dasilva/Wakefield (playing 3-5-2 at present in the FA Youth Cup team) being decidedly wide and the only other contenders, Ake, Aina, Kane and Wallace, hardly well-versed in the wing back role. So, bearing this in mind, it’s at least a relief to know that Conte is flexible when it comes to formations with Italy. No question, whoever the next manager is, he will have his work cut out and Guus summed the situation up well only a few days ago…

 

“It’s not a small job. I don’t want to open up too much but everyone has to make good analysis about the strength of the squad, about the weakness of the squad, and accordingly they have to react in building up, or making the squad stronger for next season. That’s not a small job. I don’t want to go into details. I am here in the interim period and the people who are not responsible for the every day, every week stuff and games, they have the longer vision of what is the need of this club, they are in charge to do that.”

.

@ kiwi1691

First you defend Emenalo with saying that nobody on here knows what's actually going on behind the scenes and that we are only blaming him for that interview (which is false). But at the same time you claim to know Falcao was a Mourinho signing, and that Mourinho only wanted to strengthen the squad with Stones and Pogba. Pato is a same type of signing as Falcao, so is he also a Mourinho signing?

So what is it, do you work for Chelsea? 

You also only blame Mourinho 100% for the season's failure like he's playing on the pitch, but let's talk about facts and no speculation.

- It was already clear that our squad needed strengthening back in January, do you remember the 5-2 thrashing at the Lane on Jan 1 ? Yet we did nothing in January to strengthen, and in the summer we only lost quality instead of gaining quality to push further in the CL and try to defend the title. Is it Jose's mistake that the club lack ambition to improve further?

- We lost massive experience and leadership in Cech, Drogba and Luis and only improved with a panic buy in Pedro, a player that comes that late always need time to adapt to a new league. The same goes for Baba. Was it Abramovic who let Cech go to Arsenal to strengthen a direct rival or was it Jose's decision? 

- Pat Nevin, a person that actually has a connection with the club, claimed that Jose wanted to strengthen the squad and had 6 targets on mind but got none of his targets. We know 3 of them: Marquinhos, Stones and Pogba. 3 are unnamed. Is it also Jose's mistake that he got 0 of his 6 targets ? 

- The players came back overweight, Diego admitted this himself and we also saw the pictures on Dailymail. Cesc, Hazard (as always), Ivanovic, Diego Costa were clearly not in shape while being paid millions a year. Is this also the fault of Mourinho?

- Our best defender in JT is simply aging. Is it also Jose's mistake that JT is aging and that he got Djilobodji to succeed our captain? 

- The club planned a post season tour for commercial reasons knowing that the season starts 1 week earlier than normal, that makes 2 weeks lesser training and getting fit for the players. Is this is also Jose's mistake? 

This season's start was a collective failure from the club, manager and players, not only 100% Jose's fault. 

       

Interesting post about Conte from Dorset, some quick replies on my part:

 

 

 

That said, his critics in Italy would surely highlight the fact that use of a 3-5-2 formation and a midfield diamond always means that the grip on space in the last third is insecure, especially when you are forced to defend deep and under pressure against top quality teams. Panda can confirm, but wasn’t Conte’s 3-5-2 title-winning team troubled most by sides with good wingers and if anything didn‘t he almost exclusively operate with a back three rather than using the more defensive 5-3-2 for any length of time? 

You're right, Conte's side were troubled by teams with very good wingers, most clearly when they were eliminated from the CL by (eventual treble winners) Bayern Munich. I can't really place the blame entirely on Conte for that, given that Bayern were simply a far superior team (I think it was Arjen Robben vs Federico Peluso on Juve's left wing, and that was never going to end well for us!). He clearly learnt his lesson when he faced Real Madrid - another team with superb wingers - in the next season's CL group stage. He switched to a lop-sided 4-3-3 for both matches and Juve were the better side during both matches, despite being unlucky in terms of results (one leg was a 2-2 draw where Madrid took the lead through a poor Caceres back pass, and the other a defeat where Chiellini was shown an extremely soft red card early in the second half).

 

 

 

It seems to me that in this system the wider of three centre-backs need to play out closer to the touchline to cover the two wing-backs and past failures of the formation in the Premiership were probably due to those two defenders inability to adapt, the magnetic pull to the centre being too great for old school central defenders often too set in their ways. Also, the Juve midfield three had Pirlo operating in a deeper position in front of the back three, with Pogba and Vidal in front - roles that would presumably be taken by a deep-lying Fabregas with permutations of Willian, Oscar, Mikel, Matic and RLC ahead of the playmaker and in such circumstances I agree with ShedEnder91, namely that it would not bode well for Matic or Mikel, nor would there be much point in playing Hazard out wide in this system. 

Again, you're right. The left sided defender of the three was Giorgio Chiellini, who started his career as a left back, so is very comfortable playing defensively on the wing. The left wing back was usually Kwadwo Asamoah (a converted midfielder) whereas the right wing back was Lichtsteiner (a converted full back), so it wasn't unusual for the team's shape to change slightly mid-match to a back 4 i.e. Chiellini at left back, Bonucci and Barzagli in the centre, and Lichtsteiner on the right. All three central defenders are fairly comfortable on the ball, so would frequently carry the ball into the space in front of them. Bonucci, in particular, was crucial in replacing Pirlo as the team's playmaker, whenever Pirlo was man-marked. There's an interesting video on YouTube showing Juve playing in this way against Chelsea when they met in the CL group stage.

 

 

 

Perhaps Panda could also comment on the front two situation - when Tevez and Llorente played Juve had a plus forty 45 goal difference and as I see it the only forward comparison to be made with us at present is Costa partnering Pato (Edin simply isn’t scoring enough goals) a scenario not only presupposing that they would hit it off together, but also banking on the latter reliving past glory in terms of form-finding - and who really knows what the chances are of that happening? Hazard could play the role ‘theoretically’, as Panda suggests, but Chelsea fans have seen this drifting in from the left and linking play in actual practice and I’m not sure it can be described as an unqualified success. 

The front two situation was hugely problematic in Conte's first two seasons at Juve. The front pairing was usually Vucinic + either Matri/Quagliarella/Giovinco. Vucinic, although a very good link-up player, simply didn't score enough, and the other three weren't good enough for Juve's aspirations. Tevez and Llorente were simply better versions of what came before - Tevez good at dropping deep and linking up (and, conveniently, also good at scoring a truckload of goals), and Llorente great at holding up the ball and bringing midfielders into play.

Allegri's agent has come out saying he won't be leaving Juve according to Italian media.

Seems like its between Conte & Simeone

Yeah Conte or Simone. Who would you want right NOW?

My choice would be Simone. My only fear would be that we turn into the English Athletico Madrid - behind City/United like Barca/Real.

Edited February 22, 201610 yr by JM7

Why aren't we linked more with Pochettino?.

Yeah Conte or Simone. Who would you want right NOW?

My choice would be Simone. My only fear would be that we turn into the English Athletico Madrid - behind City/United like Barca/Real.

City and United aren't exactly Barcelona and United and PL isn't Laliga. Small teams will be challenging City and United big time. PL is unpredictable.

In a Simione vs Conte comparison, I would choose Conte even when I feel Simione has the better chance to make us competitive. The club, in all its wisdom, moved away from Jose. The only thing which I didn't like about Jose was his defensive tactics in key games. I loved how we played in Jose's first stint and Ancelotti's first season, but other than that our football has been reactive.

 

I would have still kept Jose but as the club decided to move away from him, I do not want the same pragmatic approach in Simione as I don't think he is a better manager than Jose. Rather go for something new and attacking in Conte and who knows, that might actually work. 

.

Edited February 22, 201610 yr by Michael440

Yeah Conte or Simone. Who would you want right NOW?

My choice would be Simone. My only fear would be that we turn into the English Athletico Madrid - behind City/United like Barca/Real.

 

1. José

2. Carlo

3. Sparky

According to Gazette we've got a deal in principle with Conte

I don't mind Conte. Never going to be long term with anyone so lets try this italian. I like us to have some italian blood in Chelsea once again.

Yeah Conte or Simone. Who would you want right NOW?

Right now, Someone.

I'm cautious of Conte having been out of club management for a couple of years.

He could need time to adjust back to the rigours of day to day management.

Throw on top being new to managing in the Premier League. We've seen lots of managers come to the league and having grand ideas for formations and tactics that they've had to quickly abandon.

LVG with a back three. AVB wanted a fluid central midfield three that constantly rotated. Carlo with a diamond formation. Those are three that spring to mind, I worry Conte would go a similar route.

But of a vague answer there FC......

:)

Edited February 23, 201610 yr by dkw

But then the rumours that Simine ha told the board and squad that he's leaving Ath Madrid for Chelsea seem quite definitive. They were strong rumours.

I can understand the board picking Conte though, particularly as he has a strong attacking ideas.

I think either Simeone or Conte are exciting choices, but I think it also shows the conflicted thinking at the club. They don't know what they want or what they want to be and I think Man United are in the same quandary. Think back to 2008 when the two best clubs in the world were contesting the Champions League Final in Moscow- 8 years on both are lost and trying to find their way back, torn between the pragmatism of immediate success and a desire to play some perceived ideologically purer, more beautiful form of the game.

 

I actually think the choice United have is more binary than our's. Mourinho is the closest thing to guaranteed success for a club with United's resources, whereas Giggs is a leap of faith based on him being part of the Ferguson dynasty. He is the embodiment of everything they were and they want that back. I actually think it's incredibly foolish and phenomenally naive to think that he can bring those days back because so much else has changed and they only have to look down the road to realise that. Woodward is a businessman and he knows the right choice is Mourinho so they'll go with that.

 

We on the other hand don't have those pressures, and I think that's because we haven't yet realised what a mess we're in. Simeone is probably the better choice and I think he has the better chance of being successful in the short-term. The problem is whether our players will do what he wants or if they're burnt out from Jose's time here. He'll ask them to put their egos to one side and sacrifice part of what they might enjoy for the team - you won't get Mikel talking about 'relaxed' atmospheres I'm sure. But you'll get a team who leave everything on the pitch and be something we can all be proud of. Winning will be the barometer of success, not style.

 

Conte is slightly different. He's more adaptable than I thought and his teams play with intensity that, whilst not quite matching Simeone's, isn't to be sniffed at. I do think he'd need more time to build something successful here though and it would be more attacking than Simeone's Chelsea. If he actually did go with 352 then it could be a hugely exciting time, but it would also be a time of great upheaval (that's if we committed to it and did it right).

 

 

I'd be happy with either but it's a massive fork in the road for this club. I think Roman wants Conte if the reports of him wanting to be a more expansive, entertaining team are true but I think the businessman in him sees Simeone as possibly the safer bet.

 

Either way, both coaches would need proper financial backing and that doesn't mean one-out and one-in. It means £100 million of new money put into the club over the first 18-24 months in my opinion, to make us competitive in the league and Europe. It also means either one of them being give time and freedom to implement their ideas.

 

Now is the time to make the choice though. Of course the club could just hire Pellegrini, not change much, finish 5th next year and have the same discussion with themselves next May. That is certainly a possibility with this club.

 

What would be interesting, now that Guardiola is confirmed as a non-runner, is to have the 30 voters for him on here recasting their votes. I’m sure they all had a second choice and a redistribution would make the poll far more reflective of current opinion. Of course, I’m a fine one to speak, as I don’t have a clue how to set up a poll in the first place, but there must be an expert or two around who could tweak this one, bearing in mind that 17.24% is quite a significant share of the vote to be reallocated. 

 

 

What would be interesting, now that Guardiola is confirmed as a non-runner, is to have the 30 voters for him on here recasting their votes. I’m sure they all had a second choice and a redistribution would make the poll far more reflective of current opinion. Of course, I’m a fine one to speak, as I don’t have a clue how to set up a poll in the first place, but there must be an expert or two around who could tweak this one, bearing in mind that 17.24% is quite a significant share of the vote to be reallocated. 

 

 

Another 11% is Hiddink and Ancelotti too - that's almost a third of the vote on people who have jobs or are retiring.

According to Gazzetta Dello Sport Antonio Conte has reached an agreement with Chelsea. #cfc

President Cerezo (A. Madrid): "There comes a time that the rumour is so big, it may seem like reality, but this time I can tell you there is nothing".

Sounds like it's Conte.

According to Gazzetta Dello Sport Antonio Conte has reached an agreement with Chelsea. #cfc

Yes, and he wants to bring Lazio's winger Antonio Candreva with him for €30 million.

Be happy with conte from what i have read about him. He seems capable of adapting his tactics and playing positive football. Doesn't sound like he's stuck in the mud in regards to trying new things.

Mikel and his "relaxed" atmosphere. No wonder he never lived up to his expectations.

Be a bit disappointed to not get Simeone.

He would have been the best choice IMO.