1 hour ago, Dixons said:

He scored just 4 goals last season and imho that did not compensate for what we lost defensively.

To be fair, that does almost take him into Willian territory ...

14 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

@loz @coco out of curiosity, if Kante were to play infront of the back 4 as a DM, who would your other 2 midfielders be?

We don't know which young/loaned players are coming in, but you already mentioned one option on the other thread, Mount could be tested out in front, with Kante Jorginho behind in the 4-2-3-1 Mount being the middle of 3. Frank used the 4-2-3-1 at Derby, if RLC was fit then 4-2-3-1 would be ideal as he could do the right of 3 position, perfect for him. Tbh whoever comes in as manager will have a huge job trying to work out what to do, it's like he's looking at a huge plate of tangled spaghetti that needs to be sorted out before it's munched through.

1 hour ago, loz said:

At the moment, and if everyone fit, it would be RLC and reluctantly Barkley or Bakayoko  until such time as we get a feel for whether Mount can step up a few rungs and play in the Premier League. Now that isn't me saying Bakayoko or Barkley are great - more that if you're starving and the chippy is shut you may just have to Pauly's mama's spicey meatballs out of desparation.

This would be my answer as well.  At least about Kante/Ruben/Barkley/Baka.  I can't speak to the meatballs, I'm afraid.

13 hours ago, loz said:

However whoever we get as a manager is going to not have Sarri's gloopy brain and will play Kante in the role where he can get his tadger out  can do his Makalele impression. 

Kante's played twice as a DM since he's arrived in English football.

Once was in Euro 16, it went so well he was dropped before the quarters.

The second time was the start of Conte's reign here, it was such a success Conte overhauled the entire system after six games.

What gives anyone the idea that a player who's main attribute is his engine is best in a restrictive sitting DM role (and that's before we factor in the fact any attempt to play him there has backfired badly), I will never know. 

Edited June 20, 20197 yr by Argo

7 minutes ago, Boston Blue said:

This would be my answer as well.  At least about Kante/Ruben/Barkley/Baka.  I can't speak to the meatballs, I'm afraid.

See there is some intelligence on here. @Mod Stark had wondered why I had come back saying 'it's full of fucking spanners now Loz not like 10 years ago when you were in your early 20s'

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Kante's played twice as a DM since he's arrived in English football.

Once was in Euro 16, it went so well he was dropped before the quarters.

The second time was the start of Conte's reign here, it was such a success Conte overhauled the entire system after six games.

What gives anyone the idea that a player who's main attribute is his engine is best in a restrictive sitting DM role (and that's before we factor in the fact any attempt to play him there has backfired badly), I will never know. 

That's because you are thinking of a DM in terms of the way they are defined in computer games rather than in real football - which is understandable, I see most women as looking like either Lara Croft or Marge Simpson with her hair down. Nobody is saying Kante is the sort of defensive midfielder who can't cross the half way line without getting a nose bleed and seeking the comfort of his damaged wing mirror mini.  The actual point is that if is payed where Sarri played Jorginho he can offer both the defensive angle in spades and drive the team forward. Play him where Sarri stupidly played him then you lose the majority of his predominant strength of protecting the back four and you ask him play the sort of role you may have asked someone like Lampard to perform in the past.  It was fucking nuts, a midfield three of Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic - that brought as many smiles to people's faces as nuclear fallout.

5 minutes ago, loz said:

That's because you are thinking of a DM in terms of the way they are defined in computer games rather than in real football - which is understandable, I see most women as looking like either Lara Croft or Marge Simpson with her hair down. Nobody is saying Kante is the sort of defensive midfielder who can't cross the half way line without getting a nose bleed and seeking the comfort of his damaged wing mirror mini.  The actual point is that if is payed where Sarri played Jorginho he can offer both the defensive angle in spades and drive the team forward. Play him where Sarri stupidly played him then you lose the majority of his predominant strength of protecting the back four and you ask him play the sort of role you may have asked someone like Lampard to perform in the past.  It was f**king nuts, a midfield three of Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic - that brought as many smiles to people's faces as nuclear fallout.

That's why he worked well with Matic and Drinkwater (even Bakayoko when he was allright at the start), whenever his proactive nature gets him wiped out there's sitting cover in behind him. When he's the last line before defense there's a risk getting him to play his complete natural game as whenever he's wiped out of the game opponents have clear overloads on our back four (the biggest case in point was the 3-0 loss at The Emirates under Conte and even more specifically Ozil's goal in that match, Kante tried to win the ball high up, failed and Ozil and Sanchez were 2 on 2 Vs our CBs). 

To get the absolute best out of Kante a 343 or 442 is the way forward however that doesn't happen under most modern managers so it's about finding him the best position in the new system.

I don't really think Kante was that big a problem in that position, he finished the season with 5 goals and 4 assists which for perspective is better than all bar 2 of Essien's total in 8 season's for us. The issue came to the lack of goals from LCM, for the brief period Loftus-Cheek was fit, firing and scoring we had the perfect midfield balance and not even pundits where peddling Kante being out of position.

Regardless of the system playing Kante furthest back is counterproductive one way or another. You either restrict him by telling him to hold his position or play his natural game which risks leaving gaping holes in behind that almost any press resistance team will take advantage off.

2 hours ago, loz said:

At the moment, and if everyone fit, it would be RLC and reluctantly Barkley or Bakayoko  until such time as we get a feel for whether Mount can step up a few rungs and play in the Premier League. Now that isn't me saying Bakayoko or Barkley are great - more that if you're starving and the chippy is shut you may just have to Pauly's mama's spicey meatballs out of desparation.

Hey.....is this Pauly?

 

@Pauly is 5 ft 2, failed miserably coaching an U12s team and kidded people on he passed the hours reading Italo Calvino and smoking pipes.  I don't think that's him however that does look his his 'mama'

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

That's why he worked well with Matic and Drinkwater (even Bakayoko when he was allright at the start), whenever his proactive nature gets him wiped out there's sitting cover in behind him. When he's the last line before defense there's a risk getting him to play his complete natural game as whenever he's wiped out of the game opponents have clear overloads on our back four (the biggest case in point was the 3-0 loss at The Emirates under Conte and even more specifically Ozil's goal in that match, Kante tried to win the ball high up, failed and Ozil and Sanchez were 2 on 2 Vs our CBs). 

To get the absolute best out of Kante a 343 or 442 is the way forward however that doesn't happen under most modern managers so it's about finding him the best position in the new system.

I don't really think Kante was that big a problem in that position, he finished the season with 5 goals and 4 assists which for perspective is better than all bar 2 of Essien's total in 8 season's for us. The issue came to the lack of goals from LCM, for the brief period Loftus-Cheek was fit, firing and scoring we had the perfect midfield balance and not even pundits where peddling Kante being out of position.

Regardless of the system playing Kante furthest back is counterproductive one way or another. You either restrict him by telling him to hold his position or play his natural game which risks leaving gaping holes in behind that almost any press resistance team will take advantage off.

His lack of goals was more telling because Barkley & Kovacic produced even less.  Essentially we had no offensive threat from Kante's side, little from Pedro/Willian. almost nothing from Kovacic/Barkley, and nothing from strikers.  We were too easy to defend against outside Hazard, and to easy to exploit defensively with the loss of Kante's ability to be the "destroyer".

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

To be fair, that does almost take him into Willian territory ...

At the start of the season we had two world class players. At the end of it one leaves and the other is now almost as good as Willian. 

13 hours ago, loz said:

Let me get this straight. There are people who think two times league winner and world cup winner defensive midfielder Kante shouldn't play defensive midfield.

Do these same people think the earth is flat, Keith Flint was a genius and dragons used to boss the planet?

What's wrong with Keith? 

Agree on Kante though. I think he can play further forward but he is best mopping up behind the midfield. If the aim is to get the best out of your best players you have to play him there.

I'm thinking that Frank might play Jorginho and Kante next to each other which allows Ruben/Barkley/Mount to play further forward with a bit more freedom. More of a 4-2-3-1.

2 hours ago, Dixons said:

At the start of the season we had two world class players. At the end of it one leaves and the other is now almost as good as Willian. 

I was kind of hoping that we would accept the 35m for Willian on the condition that whoever bought him had to take Bakayoko as a BOGOF.

We have the Baka Whisperer on staff. He'll get into the team over Jorginho by Christmas. 

Loz is back and we're talking about Pauly....maybe Baka is our saviour?

Not sure if discussed here but if Makalele is signed by the club for a coaching role Bakayoko will surely come back to the squad. Makalele pretty much lifted the boy from mediocrity to the level he was at Monaco. 

7 hours ago, evissy said:

Not sure if discussed here but if Makalele is signed by the club for a coaching role Bakayoko will surely come back to the squad. Makalele pretty much lifted the boy from mediocrity to the level he was at Monaco. 

I mentioned it above. Baka will be starting by Christmas with Maka around

If Bakayoko is coming back into the side I don't think this season can get much worse. 

God I hope he isn't coming back. Spurs are getting Ndombele who is what Bakayoko was supposed to be but with passing and a first touch and we will have to have him coming back and giving the ball away under the slightest pressure again. Sigh.

18 hours ago, Slojo said:

If Bakayoko is coming back into the side I don't think this season can get much worse. 

Willian could sign that rumoured two year contract extension...

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Willian could sign that rumoured two year contract extension...

Oh thank you! Just thank you, I see that you really care for mental health. 

On 21/06/2019 at 15:35, evissy said:

Not sure if discussed here but if Makalele is signed by the club for a coaching role Bakayoko will surely come back to the squad. Makalele pretty much lifted the boy from mediocrity to the level he was at Monaco. 

Bakayoko is still mediocre. His best trait is just to be there and put a tackle in, He is a very poor man's Makalele.

19 hours ago, Deino said:

Bakayoko is still mediocre. His best trait is just to be there and put a tackle in, He is a very poor man's Makalele.

He wasn't at Monaco. I think his head is his problem. Apparently Maka's soothing whispering in his ear made him a better player. If Maka comes back Baka surely gets his chance and this time he has a chance. This is my theory anyway. We spent 40m on him. 

There are rumors coming out of France that PSG is reciprocating interest after Bakayoko said he would like to play there one day.

https://readchelsea.com/2019/06/25/psg-interested-in-chelsea-midfielder-tiemoue-bakayoko/

Makes sense since Leonardo is back at PSG after signing Baka on loan at Milan last season.

Edited June 25, 20197 yr by mwblue10

NDombele stood out at Lyon although a trifle inconsistent. I watched Lyon quite a bit last season. They have a few god players. Still out of the Lyon squad Depay is the player that would most help Chelsea. As for bakyoko it’s hard to say. He wouldn’t suit sarri’s idea of a midfielder that’s for sure.