3 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

There is zero evidence a young player on our books can fill that role.  Who?  Mount?   He's Championship proven.  Ampadu?  We don't know whether he's a defender or a midfielder, and spent the whole of last season without any meaningful competitive minutes.  It's been said that the same exciting, brave managerial appointment wanted Kovacic, so he must have some idea on how he wants to deploy him.  I don't know what restrictions Sarri put on his play, so if Frank can get performances out of him like he played in the EL final, he will be an important player for us. 

As supporters (and I'm guilty of this) we tend to over-rate our own youth players.  We don't know what they can do because our managers have never felt secure enough to trust them.  Until now.  And out of necessity.  And we need a mix of experienced players to go with the youth.  We can't just play 9 youth players.   Kovacic has a full year of PL experience, and I'm guessing he's primed for a great season.

I can't see Bakayoko making it here, but we need to make him as attractive as possible to any potential buyers out there.  We paid significant money for him, and we should recoup some of that.

Read the comments by Croat in the Kovacic thread and you'll see Kovacic's performances had nothing to do with Sarri's system or difficulties of a first year in a new league. That is his level of play.  I'm not saying our youth players will do better, but i am asking how they could possibly bring less to the team than those two brought.  I'm also not asking for 9 youth players to be given a chance. That would be stupid and a disaster. Just 2 or 3 would be great to see tho!

2 hours ago, Deino said:

At one point all the top clubs were creaming for Odegaard, Renato Sanches etc. Just because more than one club "are rumoured to be interested" doesn't mean it's real or a smart move.

I remember when Renato Sanches played against us for Swansea a few seasons back. He played a pass so poor that it made Paul Clement facepalm ?

2 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I remember when Renato Sanches played against us for Swansea a few seasons back. He played a pass so poor that it made Paul Clement facepalm ?

When we played Bayern in the pre-season, he looked like the best player on the pitch... then when he played for Swansea, it was a totally different player. Amazing how much the mental make-up can make at this level.

5 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

When we played Bayern in the pre-season, he looked like the best player on the pitch... then when he played for Swansea, it was a totally different player. Amazing how much the mental make-up can make at this level.

Yep, ability is important, but the mental side of the game is just as important. I feel like Christensen has only just got over those mistakes he was making a few seasons back. Morata started well with us and then completely crumbled and blamed everybody else but himself. 

1 hour ago, Dixons said:

Read the comments by Croat in the Kovacic thread and you'll see Kovacic's performances had nothing to do with Sarri's system or difficulties of a first year in a new league. That is his level of play.  I'm not saying our youth players will do better, but i am asking how they could possibly bring less to the team than those two brought.  I'm also not asking for 9 youth players to be given a chance. That would be stupid and a disaster. Just 2 or 3 would be great to see tho!

We pretty much got 2 young 'uns last season, and we should get 2 or 3 more this season.

I did read Croat's comments, but I go by what I saw.  To me, he looked like a player that was instructed to play in a small little box, and make sure he supported the player ahead of him.  Against Arsenal in the EL final (for whatever reason) he looked to play outside the confined space he was in and be more assertive.  And it was the best he looked all season.

Maybe he was trying to earn enough from Sarri to warrant being bought on a permanent basis.  I'd defer to Croat because I only saw him play for us.  I didn't watch him previously to his loan.  And I can't tell you if we would have bought him if we didn't have the ban.  So we'll see what we get out of him under Frank.  

11 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

I wouldn't sell Bakayoko to United for a 15-20M profit, it's just keep sending the wrong message. They never sold us a player, and we sold them Mata, Matic without much of a bidding. With the transfer ban, we should be very careful who we sell or even loan out. Let's hope he gives his all in training and put his hands up for a starting spot.

Doesn't send the wrong message atall, the only club that look silly are United who are acting like West Ham taking our assets once they're past their best. 

As for them never selling us a player I would guarantee if we bid 55m for Jones or Lingard for example United would take the money and run, as we should if they make a similar offer for Baka. The only reason they don't sell to us is because we go after their top players (Martial, Rooney).

Edited July 10, 20197 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Yep, ability is important, but the mental side of the game is just as important. I feel like Christensen has only just got over those mistakes he was making a few seasons back. Morata started well with us and then completely crumbled and blamed everybody else but himself. 

I don't want to open up old wounds but I've always wondered how much Conte was to blame for that, three players started that season pretty well (two actually looked borderline world class) and ended it scared of their own shadow, when there's multiple cases of the same thing you have to wonder.

23 minutes ago, Argo said:

I don't want to open up old wounds but I've always wondered how much Conte was to blame for that, three players started that season pretty well (two actually looked borderline world class) and ended it scared of their own shadow, when there's multiple cases of the same thing you have to wonder.

Morata came to become the first choice striker after Costa left, he played over 30 games in the league that season for Conte, Christensen played a bit less than 30 games and Bakayoko as well.

All of them got their fair chance under Conte, they were supposed to adapt better but they all failed in their own unique way, nothing to blame Conte for, even Bakayoko thanked Conte on his social media when Conte got sacked.

1 hour ago, Boston Blue said:

We pretty much got 2 young 'uns last season, and we should get 2 or 3 more this season.

I did read Croat's comments, but I go by what I saw.  To me, he looked like a player that was instructed to play in a small little box, and make sure he supported the player ahead of him.  Against Arsenal in the EL final (for whatever reason) he looked to play outside the confined space he was in and be more assertive.  And it was the best he looked all season.

Maybe he was trying to earn enough from Sarri to warrant being bought on a permanent basis.  I'd defer to Croat because I only saw him play for us.  I didn't watch him previously to his loan.  And I can't tell you if we would have bought him if we didn't have the ban.  So we'll see what we get out of him under Frank.  

CHO was the only young one to break thru. Anyway, as much as i don't rate Kovacic, i can at least see he has the basic technical ability to be a decent enough player, if he can get his head right and start being much more positive in his play.  Bakayoko is a lost cause and will never be good enough for a top four team in the EPL. 

30 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Morata came to become the first choice striker after Costa left, he played over 30 games in the league that season for Conte, Christensen played a bit less than 30 games and Bakayoko as well.

All of them got their fair chance under Conte, they were supposed to adapt better but they all failed in their own unique way, nothing to blame Conte for, even Bakayoko thanked Conte on his social media when Conte got sacked.

I don't mean Conte didn't give them enough chances, what i mean was i do wonder how much his behavior that season affected them. I can't imagine Antonio was patient and encouraging them once they hit a rut given the mood he was in all season and for confidence player's like those they need a pat on the back more than the moody dictator.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't mean Conte didn't give them enough chances, what i mean was i do wonder how much his behavior that season affected them. I can't imagine Antonio was patient and encouraging them once they hit a rut given the mood he was in all season and for confidence player's like those they need a pat on the back more than the moody dictator.

Well from the looks of it, he was encouraging towards Bakayoko whole season and he played in Conte's last FA cup victory 90+minutes, with the kind words Bakayoko wrote to him once he was sacked there is no way Conte can be blamed for the shape of Bakayoko.

I don't see a manager out there that could play Morata as the starting striker so that's mainly a big transfer miss from Conte but not as his manager, and what he couldn't do with Christensen he made up with Rudiger, where he stopped Sarri continued.

11 hours ago, Argo said:

Doesn't send the wrong message atall, the only club that look silly are United who are acting like West Ham taking our assets once they're past their best. 

As for them never selling us a player I would guarantee if we bid 55m for Jones or Lingard for example United would take the money and run, as we should if they make a similar offer for Baka. The only reason they don't sell to us is because we go after their top players (Martial, Rooney).

Pretty sure  they wouldn't even if we bid 60M for Lingard, because United is never in the business of helping out other rival teams.

I wouldn't really consider selling Bakayoko to United "helping them out"...

We could finally get our own back for Veron.

4 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Pretty sure  they wouldn't even if we bid 60M for Lingard, because United is never in the business of helping out other rival teams.

I agree they wouldn't help us out, but selling us Lingard would be far from helping us just like us selling them Bakayoko won't.

If United want to keep paying over the odds for our past it and/or unwanted assets that's brilliant for us as far as I'm concerned.

Looked shocking today, honestly hasn’t improved one bit since he left which is worrying.

Seems bizarre doesn't it. He played well in some games for Milan, but had a limited role. Anytime he is asked to do more than break up play he seems to struggle. On his way if we can find a buyer, not that I buy the PSG rumours. Tuchel wants the ball and Bakayoko is hopeless with it. 

I hope whoever sanctioned his signing can swallow their pride, admit the mistake, and ship him out to whoever will take him, for whatever we can get.  Permanently ?

 

I thought he had a great game.  Bossed the midfield and made some excellent passes...

Ok, I couldn't keep a straight face whilst saying that.  I was willing to give him a chance when he came back but I've seen enough.  Sell him.  Don't care who to or for how much, he just needs to go. 

Wheel him out for lower league cup games so we can sing his song. That’s worth the price we paid surely?

I find it hard not to feel a bit sorry for Bakayoko after reading yet another slaughtering in the match day thread.  He's comeback trying to give it another go and if anything looks worse than ever.   It really is in the best interest of both player and club for him to be sold asp, no matter how much the club loses on him.

6 hours ago, Dixons said:

I find it hard not to feel a bit sorry for Bakayoko after reading yet another slaughtering in the match day thread.  He's comeback trying to give it another go and if anything looks worse than ever.   It really is in the best interest of both player and club for him to be sold asp, no matter how much the club loses on him.

I feel sorry for him as well. Hopefully he doesn't read what people say about him. It must be horrible to read, or hear the moans when he comes on the pitch. The sooner he leaves the club, the better for all. 

 

On 14/07/2019 at 15:34, Munkworth said:

Wheel him out for lower league cup games so we can sing his song. That’s worth the price we paid surely?

I was there in Madrid the night that song rolled out has to be one of our best, such a waste, they kept us there an hour and a half after the game because they were worried about trouble and that song was the predominant theme, that and people serenading the Spanish police about needing to piss, good night that. 

We don't need another fragile mind in our team. We have had Torres' and Moratas who clearly struggle with the mentality of football and the English game. If Bakayoko wanted to stay he's show some signs of it. Mount has humiliated him basically being 50 times the player already. Same goes to Drinkwater. One of the worst signings we've made in recent years. Just sell them to a place they can play football all the time and is closer to their level.

He is terrible. Actually worse than i remember. 

Baker looked better than him, and he is miles off being chelsea quality. 

Really poor buy, hopefully we can get most of it back. 

He has no place in this squad.