22 hours ago, Dixon said:

re the body languge. Chris Waddle used to lope around the pitch at times. Glen Hoddle and Matt le tissier were not exactly renowned for their hard work. Platini could be seen standing with his hands on his hips while Giresse and Tigana did the donkey work. Next season, if CHO  starts scoring and creating nobody will give a toss about his body language.

Quite Agree, but all those names you mention were fantastic players. Gifted, talented players who can win games with a bit of magic will always be excused "poor body language" or what might appear to be laziness. But you have to prove yourself first and CHO still has a lot to prove before he can be likened to those names you mention.

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

Just because that's the one I linked doesn't mean it was just "one decent outing" he was probably our best player that month all in all for starters.

And as I keep saying, he wouldn't be as well liked by his teammates as he quite clearly is if his attitude was poor, infact if he "couldn't be bothered" yesterday he would have probably got a bit less stick as he wouldn't have been so far back to concede the pen.

I don't know what being liked by teammates has to do with any of what I said. Michy Batshuayi seems to have a wonderful personality, loved by everyone and their mother, hasn't played in months and is about as useful at his current club as an impotent in an orgy.

Yes, I'd like to personally apologize to CHO, well done to helping out the defence, clearly he cared enough to track back and that's incredibly impressive.  Tripping the opponent in the box was probably a bit much, but hey, who cares about poor judgment, lack of concentration, mistimed challenges and conceding a penalties when we should just celebrate such a rare occasion? Yes, let's all thank CHO for the penalty. I mean, I don't want to put the kid down, it was unfortunate and thankfully didn't cost us anything, but don't you think it's a bit desperate to use that moment as an example? What's next? He doesn't drown puppies or run over homeless with his Porsche in his spare time so we have to take a moment to appreciate what a great person he is?

20 minutes ago, abramovich said:

I don't know what being liked by teammates has to do with any of what I said. Michy Batshuayi seems to have a wonderful personality, loved by everyone and their mother, hasn't played in months and is about as useful at his current club as an impotent in an orgy.

Yes, I'd like to personally apologize to CHO, well done to helping out the defence, clearly he cared enough to track back and that's incredibly impressive.  Tripping the opponent in the box was probably a bit much, but hey, who cares about poor judgment, lack of concentration, mistimed challenges and conceding a penalties when we should just celebrate such a rare occasion? Yes, let's all thank CHO for the penalty. I mean, I don't want to put the kid down, it was unfortunate and thankfully didn't cost us anything, but don't you think it's a bit desperate to use that moment as an example? What's next? He doesn't drown puppies or run over homeless with his Porsche in his spare time so we have to take a moment to appreciate what a great person he is?

Completely took what I've said totally out of context but ok.

13 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Quite Agree, but all those names you mention were fantastic players. Gifted, talented players who can win games with a bit of magic will always be excused "poor body language" or what might appear to be laziness. But you have to prove yourself first and CHO still has a lot to prove before he can be likened to those names you mention.

What was their body language when they were 18, 19? Is there a moment in an established player's career when he says: Right, I've proven myself now, so I can have a questionable body language because I'm so fantastic? 

Just wondering 

10 minutes ago, Valerie said:

What was their body language when they were 18, 19? Is there a moment in an established player's career when he says: Right, I've proven myself now, so I can have a questionable body language because I'm so fantastic? 

Just wondering 

f**k Knows!!

To be honest, with Hoddle and Le Tissier, they were two of the most gifted English players (along with Gazza) I have ever seen and both were criminally overlooked by England managers, not so much for poor body language but as players viewed as a bit of a "luxury" and not workmanlike enough. I would be happy if CHO was able to produce a fraction of the quality of Hoddle or Le Tissier!

I think there is alot of over analysing. 

He begin the season injured, started to play but look understanbly rusty. 

Got some rytham back in the new year,then got injured again. 

He was injured at the restart, and we have been winning games.

He is 19. Anyome who saw him at youth level will have seen why a team like bayern munich were willing to pay £35m for a rookie.

Ignore his contract, and just give him time to develop. Not every world class player is world class at 19, it sounds like half of the fanbase wouldve given up on Lampard and Terry before they ever made an appearance for England.

Patience.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

If I was a Chelsea coach, or a friend, I wouldn't be slagging him off. But it's a Chelsea forum and the facts are,

1) Since the restart, Lampard has given him 0 meaningful minutes. 

2) Lampard has publicly said he needs to work harder in training. 

We can speculate all we like as to why. But either he's not working hard enough or he's not kicking on otherwise he would be playing. 

There are tonnes of examples of world class 16 year olds turning into average 20 year olds. He's not.going anywhere because of his contract, he will keep getting chances. But 100% the reason he is not playing is down to him. Nothing else. 

 

Or maybe it's just Lampard, that's how he works no?

Giroud didn't exist before Tammy got injured and he has been the first choice ever since he got a chance, more or less...
Jorginho also didn't play 3-5 games after the break for no real reason...
Barkley didn't get much chances before and recently he has been playing...

There is no evidence that he isn't working hard in training, fact is CHO was the first choice ahead of Pulisic early on at the start of the season which is the exact period when he just had recovered from his tendon injury which was his biggest injury so far in his career, that alone showed that he worked hard to come back.

He has a lot of potential, look at Dortmund they signed a 17 year old for 30m, do you really believe that CHO isn't going anywhere just because we tied him to us for the long term? By that logic Barcelona was crazy for signing Messi...

Edited July 20, 20205 yr by Gol15

Willian - G/A every 165.3 minutes

Pulisic - G/A every 121.6 minutes

CHO - G/A every 146.4 minutes

 

Don't forget that 4 of Willian's goals have been from the penalty spot and people are now talking about him for POTY. Lets not sit in here talking like CHO is useless ffs.

Not sure about Willian but this should win the award for statistics bias of the year. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdaten/spieler/392768

 

Goal against Burnley at home, we were up 2-0. Goal against Grimsby 7-1 at home, Mickey Mouse Cup. Goal against Nott Forest 2-0 at home, FA Cup. One more in Premier League 2, whatever that is. 

But pretty impressive goals per minute tho. I'm sure he would have banged even more goals, had Frankie played him against weaker oppositions outside of the titans of Grimsby and Nottingham.

9 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Not sure about Willian but this should win the award for statistics bias of the year. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdaten/spieler/392768

 

Goal against Burnley at home, we were up 2-0. Goal against Grimsby 7-1 at home, Mickey Mouse Cup. Goal against Nott Forest 2-0 at home, FA Cup. One more in Premier League 2, whatever that is. 

The only teams CHO has played in the top half of the table are....

Burnley - 18 mins 

Arsenal  - 20 mins

Burnley - 90 mins (scored 1)

Arsenal  - 90 mins

Leicester - 90 mins

Sheff Utd - 15 mins

 

 

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

Quite Agree, but all those names you mention were fantastic players. Gifted, talented players who can win games with a bit of magic will always be excused "poor body language" or what might appear to be laziness. But you have to prove yourself first and CHO still has a lot to prove before he can be likened to those names you mention.

Not to put CHO in the same bracket but I'm having flashbacks to when people on here said the same thing about Ballack! Poor body language, shuffles about doesn't run enough. Some people just can't be pleased. 

43 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Not sure about Willian but this should win the award for statistics bias of the year. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdaten/spieler/392768

 

Goal against Burnley at home, we were up 2-0. Goal against Grimsby 7-1 at home, Mickey Mouse Cup. Goal against Nott Forest 2-0 at home, FA Cup. One more in Premier League 2, whatever that is. 

But pretty impressive goals per minute tho. I'm sure he would have banged even more goals, had Frankie played him against weaker oppositions outside of the titans of Grimsby and Nottingham.

Also an match winning assist away to Lillie which was a period he was providing quality assists in the PL (Alonso winner Vs Newcastle, Tammy Vs Southampton, Willian Vs Brighton) and in the process become the second youngest player in PL history to assist in 3 consecutive appearances behind only Michael Owen. And to do that after coming back from the worst injury an explosive attacker can suffer is nothing short of phenomenal.

Also came on Vs Ajax with the score 1-4 and was a contributing factor to turning that around and getting a result (which combined with his winning assist at Lillie makes him a big reason we qualified), came on at Arsenal with us 0-1 down, we win 2-1 with him making a big contribution to the winner in winning a crucial header that set Tammy and Willian free.

He's also around the top of many important (underlying) metrics against players his age (I posted them not long ago).

I'm not usually this petty but if/when CHO has a breakthrough season I will be reminding some of their comments and how they totally gave up on a hugely talented teenager at the slightest hint of a loss of form.

Think some people are ruling out CHO too soon.  not been a great season and a lot of turmoil on and off football issues for him..... Glad to have him around, and especially now that we don't appear anywhere near as reliant on him coming good/top class as we locked prior to the season.  Certainly looks like he'll have to step up to the competition within the squad or risk being left on the bench as it feels the amount of leverage he had is pretty much gone due to said turmoils and other players stepping up.

While he hasn't got and never had the killer pace of a Sterling, that move yesterday when he flashed a shot over the bar showed he's got back the crucial zip over a yard to create the space for a shot or deadly pass in or around the box. So it does look like he has  at least made a full recovery from what could well have been a career damaging injury.

12 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Our own CB can't even do that against Yarmolenko but we're expecting a 19 year old attacker to easily do it against on of the most in form forwards in the league? I'm not holding this against him. 

Can't sit here moaning he doesn't track back then moan when he actually does.

Big difference, Yarmolenko hit on the counter and had acres of space. Martial had about 4-5 players to beat, CHO didn't have to make a tackle, Rudiger did and had to block the shot. 

Silly comparison. Not sure why this is going over people's heads, Pedro came on and worked hard with the little time he had left, CHO should've done the same, that's the only point I'm making, I'm not saying he should be Dirk Kuyt. 

This is turning into shades of the KdB thread again. 

Talented but young player made mistakes,  slagged off by fans,  loan to another club,  makes the step up, bought by another big club, suddenly explodes into a world class talent,  Chelsea fans then rue the missed opportunity. 

CHO is 19 ffs, give him time

I think we will definitely be seeing a lot more of CHO next year and i believe he will really come good. The only reason why i think he isnt getting much game time at the moment is purely because since the restart every game has been must win for us, we havent had any time to take it easy. And with the immense pressure of trying to get top 4, i feel lampard is a bit more sceptical of putting him in. 

Come next year with a full preseason under his belt i feel he will definitely get more of a chance.

7 hours ago, Deino said:

This is turning into shades of the KdB thread again. 

Talented but young player made mistakes,  slagged off by fans,  loan to another club,  makes the step up, bought by another big club, suddenly explodes into a world class talent,  Chelsea fans then rue the missed opportunity. 

CHO is 19 ffs, give him time

Ridiculous isnt it, and the same "fans" would be the first to moan and whine if we sold him and he went on to be a big success. I`m starting to think some fans are only happy when they are moaning and complaining, they seem to disappears when we have some success and never return to praise players. 

48 minutes ago, dkw said:

I`m starting to think some fans are only happy when they are moaning and complaining, they seem to disappears when we have some success and never return to praise players. 

You’re a bit slow on the uptake, it’s been like this for at least a decade, almost certainly more!

8 hours ago, Argo said:

Also an match winning assist away to Lillie which was a period he was providing quality assists in the PL (Alonso winner Vs Newcastle, Tammy Vs Southampton, Willian Vs Brighton) and in the process become the second youngest player in PL history to assist in 3 consecutive appearances behind only Michael Owen. And to do that after coming back from the worst injury an explosive attacker can suffer is nothing short of phenomenal.

Also came on Vs Ajax with the score 1-4 and was a contributing factor to turning that around and getting a result (which combined with his winning assist at Lillie makes him a big reason we qualified), came on at Arsenal with us 0-1 down, we win 2-1 with him making a big contribution to the winner in winning a crucial header that set Tammy and Willian free.

He's also around the top of many important (underlying) metrics against players his age (I posted them not long ago).

I'm not usually this petty but if/when CHO has a breakthrough season I will be reminding some of their comments and how they totally gave up on a hugely talented teenager at the slightest hint of a loss of form.

I may be going over the top with my comments but aren't you doing the same? Who's giving up on CHO? I'm sure most of us criticizing him (apart from obvious trolls who never stick around here long enough to be called out) genuinely want him to succeed at the club, we're just frustrated with him. It's fine to appeal to people to be patient, indicating the player's young age, lack of experience, pressure to perform consistently well at a top club, injuries, understandable distractions due to lack of maturity, etc. All this I can live with, within reason, of course. What I do resent is that attitude from some posters that somehow saying negative things about certain players, especially our youngsters, is not compatible with being a 'true' supporter. My view is, everything should be based on merit. I praise CHO when he's doing well and I bash him when he's sh*te and I've been doing it both on this very thread.

11 hours ago, Argo said:

Also an match winning assist away to Lillie which was a period he was providing quality assists in the PL (Alonso winner Vs Newcastle, Tammy Vs Southampton, Willian Vs Brighton) and in the process become the second youngest player in PL history to assist in 3 consecutive appearances behind only Michael Owen. And to do that after coming back from the worst injury an explosive attacker can suffer is nothing short of phenomenal.

Also came on Vs Ajax with the score 1-4 and was a contributing factor to turning that around and getting a result (which combined with his winning assist at Lillie makes him a big reason we qualified), came on at Arsenal with us 0-1 down, we win 2-1 with him making a big contribution to the winner in winning a crucial header that set Tammy and Willian free.

He's also around the top of many important (underlying) metrics against players his age (I posted them not long ago).

I'm not usually this petty but if/when CHO has a breakthrough season I will be reminding some of their comments and how they totally gave up on a hugely talented teenager at the slightest hint of a loss of form.

I gave up on the guy when he was arrested for raping someone. After that was quashed I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt but still thought he won't ever be a world class player and will float around our squad until we let him go to an Everton or West Ham. 

I will be more than delighted to be wrong, I'll welcome all criticism of my views on him if I am wrong. I'll give you my address and you can formally post me abuse. I'll wear his name on the back of my shirt. I'll let him shag my wife. 

So far though, I haven't been wrong. He's got a huge season next year to turn it around as he won't be playing any more games this year. So let's see. I'm not advocating we sell him, maybe a loan. 

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by bisright1

I feel we should be sending him out on loan for a season or maybe two. If we could send him somewhere where the pressure won’t be too high. Let him learn, grow and mature as a man. He could be a good player but I feel he is getting in his own way.

According to the Independent - CHO might consider offers to leave Chelsea. His lack of playing time is given as the reason.

 

Just a journo sitting on their ass making stuff up on a slow news day.

 

Wonder if this is his brother again...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/callum-hudson-odoi-chelsea-transfer-news-kai-havertz-frank-lampard-epl-a9628306.html?fbclid=IwAR0kLDs5ggHBzWvjgG4lxXEQRZcDro2Fy4eskyHK0YHbVmjeQYfeEN0bhOM

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

I gave up on the guy when he was arrested for raping someone. After that was quashed I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt but still thought he won't ever be a world class player and will float around our squad until we let him go to an Everton or West Ham. 

I will be more than delighted to be wrong, I'll welcome all criticism of my views on him if I am wrong. I'll give you my address and you can formally post me abuse. I'll wear his name on the back of my shirt. I'll let him shag my wife. 

So far though, I haven't been wrong. He's got a huge season next year to turn it around as he won't be playing any more games this year. So let's see. I'm not advocating we sell him, maybe a loan. 

I was referring more to the person I quoted. Got no problem with comments saying (paraphrasing) he needs to do more to ultimately make it here, he does got no qualms with that, the comments I'm disputing are one's practically dismissing his season and in some cases him, he's had two months (month after his return and January) where he's been absolutely brilliant and in a season which we all widely agreed was mainly for putting on building blocks for the next generation surely that's what we've got to look at over his admittedly poor November/December.