Clear as day that Ndidi is the best tackler of the three then?

 

"he only passes sideways, he can't tackle, he offers nothing going forward" 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

"he only passes sideways, he can't tackle, he offers nothing going forward" 

Dont wanna argue but we should be happy to have both kova and jorg in the team... They work wonders together.. Like true midfield brothers.

"Sell he offers nothing" flog him to Pep for his team rebuild in the summer [emoji2281]

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Whilst a lot of these figures are irrefutable (and I am a big fan of Jorginho), the bottom stat doesn't sit right.

It is very difficult to judge whether a player was indirectly at fault for a goal and Jorginho has definitely been at fault a few times. That being said, it's not a stick to beat him with and say he's crap defensively (he's clearly not). He also brings so much passion to the midfield, something otherwise lacking in many current Chelsea players.

I'm not a huge fan and have been watching him a bit closer these last few games. To be honest I still don't think offers enough. He did however lay off the first through ball to Giroud for the first goal. It was a good ball but it didn't directly lead to the goal which eventually went in after ricocheting around for a while.

I can't remember him doing anything of this quality for quite some time.

 

Still don't think he offers any more than Kante. For me he should be cover for Kante when he is injured and nothing more.

Him and Kovacic together in midfield is brilliant!

28 minutes ago, Andy North said:

 

 

Still don't think he offers any more than Kante. For me he should be cover for Kante when he is injured and nothing more.

So much wrong and out of touch, really outside the reality in this lmao

I thought that highlight reel looked a little odd... It's from Spurs TV! No wonder the clip of Jorginho's ball is nearly cut out. It was a brilliant pass, worthy of an assist any day. 

I'm sure you're not using this clip as reference for Jorginho, but he had a solid game on Saturday. He's always open to receive a pass which takes a load of pressure off the defence if we play out from the back. He also recycles the ball quickly across the pitch. I'm not sure what else you want from him, as a CDM. 

If you break up his time at Chelsea between this season and last, he has improved a huge amount, succeeding in more tackles, scoring and creating more goals. He's by no means faultless, but he definitely offers a lot to our game.

43 minutes ago, Shweaves said:

I thought that highlight reel looked a little odd... It's from Spurs TV! No wonder the clip of Jorginho's ball is nearly cut out. It was a brilliant pass, worthy of an assist any day. 

I'm sure you're not using this clip as reference for Jorginho, but he had a solid game on Saturday. He's always open to receive a pass which takes a load of pressure off the defence if we play out from the back. He also recycles the ball quickly across the pitch. I'm not sure what else you want from him, as a CDM. 

If you break up his time at Chelsea between this season and last, he has improved a huge amount, succeeding in more tackles, scoring and creating more goals. He's by no means faultless, but he definitely offers a lot to our game.

I realise this is a close call and we have two top quality CDMs but if he is to replace Kante on a full time basis he needs to be better and more effective. When Kante plays in that position I think the team play slightly higher up the pitch because his engine allows him to cover more ground and track back more frequently. Kante deals with the opposition further up the pitch when playing in the same role whereas Jorge sits deeper and allows the opposition to come just a little bit closer to our defence. I think Kante also makes better interceptions further up the pitch leading to better attacks.

So what I want from him is to be better than Kante in that position and I'm afraid he just can't do it.

11 minutes ago, Andy North said:

So what I want from him is to be better than Kante in that position and I'm afraid he just can't do it.

I fear you're asking for the moon here! It would be incredible if Jorginho had Kante's athleticism and defensive ability, but I guess we're not that lucky.

I do, however, think that Jorginho offers an entirely different brand of football than Kante. It's not such a black and white comparison and Jorginho offers so many other attributes to the team playing the Regista role and one might be better placed comparing him to Rodri than Kante. 

Jorginho was brought in to help ease our transition from defensive, counterattacking football to more exciting, possession based attacking football and in that regard, he's succeeding. The downside of that is he cannot cover our defence in the same way Kante can, but the issue here isn't a personnel one; it's the manager's style. Do we revert to a more defensive mindset or continue in the attacking vein?

I would love to see him in a Pep team really would.

I fear you're asking for the moon here! It would be incredible if Jorginho had Kante's athleticism and defensive ability, but I guess we're not that lucky.
I do, however, think that Jorginho offers an entirely different brand of football than Kante. It's not such a black and white comparison and Jorginho offers so many other attributes to the team playing the Regista role and one might be better placed comparing him to Rodri than Kante. 
Jorginho was brought in to help ease our transition from defensive, counterattacking football to more exciting, possession based attacking football and in that regard, he's succeeding. The downside of that is he cannot cover our defence in the same way Kante can, but the issue here isn't a personnel one; it's the manager's style. Do we revert to a more defensive mindset or continue in the attacking vein?

Some just don’t get this when Kante plays he gets told he not offering enough when he’s not playing he’s being told actually you should because Jorginho offers nothing.

6 hours ago, Andy North said:

I'm not a huge fan and have been watching him a bit closer these last few games. To be honest I still don't think offers enough. He did however lay off the first through ball to Giroud for the first goal. It was a good ball but it didn't directly lead to the goal which eventually went in after ricocheting around for a while.

I can't remember him doing anything of this quality for quite some time.

 

Still don't think he offers any more than Kante. For me he should be cover for Kante when he is injured and nothing more.

If you still don't understand what Jorginho brings to a team, then I'd suggest going to see the games themselves and just watch him play. He's a system player in the mould of Xavi. Do you want Xavi to be like Kante too?

Had an absolute horror show of a performance. He has no business playing against a team of that standard. Last night showed how sorely we miss Kanté on big occasions. 

20 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Had an absolute horror show of a performance. He has no business playing against a team of that standard. Last night showed how sorely we miss Kanté on big occasions. 

Soooo slow. Bayern played him perfectly as well knowing that he wasn't mobile enough to cover Lewandowski and Muller dropping into space behind while also pushing on their midfield. 

All that is expected though. The problem was that Bayern pressed him out of the game with the ball and for the guy who is supposed to be the regista, he had no impact. Kovacic on the other hand was superb.

Hopefully Kante is fit for the second leg so he and Kovacic can steer us back into the tie

56 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Soooo slow. Bayern played him perfectly as well knowing that he wasn't mobile enough to cover Lewandowski and Muller dropping into space behind while also pushing on their midfield. 

All that is expected though. The problem was that Bayern pressed him out of the game with the ball and for the guy who is supposed to be the regista, he had no impact. Kovacic on the other hand was superb.

Hopefully Kante is fit for the second leg so he and Kovacic can steer us back into the tie

It seems absurd that he's basically good at one thing, but if you press him even a little bit he is incapable of doing the one thing. Utterly baffling that some people prefer him to Kanté. 

It also bothers me that the pacing on his short passes is poor as well, he consistently seems to underhit them. Incredibly frustrating player. 

An invisible "leader". Wasn't even quick enough to catch a Bayern player for a foul this time so he had to mouth off needlessly at 0:0 to get his obligatory yellow and a ban for the second leg.

Kante wasn't available yesterday.

The only other option was Gilmour.

Jorginho was poor though he did create a chance with one of his forward passes. 

5 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

It seems absurd that he's basically good at one thing, but if you press him even a little bit he is incapable of doing the one thing. Utterly baffling that some people prefer him to Kanté. 

It also bothers me that the pacing on his short passes is poor as well, he consistently seems to underhit them. Incredibly frustrating player. 

I'm not sure anybody prefers Jorginho to Kante in games like yesterday. I have said all season that Kante's best games have been against the top sides, and that is because they aren't so defensive which helps bring out the best of Kante's abilities. I prefer Jorginho in the games where we are going to dominate the ball because Kante has become next to useless against these defensive sides. They both have their weaknesses depending on the type of team we play against.

The question going forward is, can we build a successful side with either of them next to Kovacic? I don't think in the long run it's possible with Jorginho, but it can be done with Kante as long as we improve the attacking areas of the pitch. I don't want to see Kante getting forward so much and chasing players all over the pitch, I don't think it works against defensive sides. If anything, Kante kills our attacks because attacking is something he isn't very good at. As long as we persist with Kante being so involved in our attacking game, we will suffer. Get him playing deeper so we have somebody to protect the defense instead of having somebody that looks like a headless chicken running around, killing our attacks and leaving us a man short in midfield when the opposition counter attack us. If Loftus-Cheek returns to be anything like as good as he was towards the end of last season, then we have our midfield sorted. He would be able to be an effective attacking midfielder and we wouldn't need Kante to be as involved so high up the pitch.

Edited February 26, 20206 yr by Scott Harris

8 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I'm not sure anybody prefers Jorginho to Kante in games like yesterday. I have said all season that Kante's best games have been against the top sides, and that is because they aren't so defensive which helps bring out the best of Kante's abilities. I prefer Jorginho in the games where we are going to dominate the ball because Kante has become next to useless against these defensive sides. They both have their weaknesses depending on the type of team we play against.

The question going forward is, can we build a successful side with either of them next to Kovacic? I don't think in the long run it's possible with Jorginho, but it can be done with Kante as long as we improve the attacking areas of the pitch. I don't want to see Kante getting forward so much and chasing players all over the pitch, I don't think it works against defensive sides. If anything, Kante kills our attacks because attacking is something he isn't very good at. As long as we persist with Kante being so involved in our attacking game, we will suffer. Get him playing deeper so we have somebody to protect the defense instead of having somebody that looks like a headless chicken running around, killing our attacks and leaving us a man short in midfield when the opposition counter attack us. If Loftus-Cheek returns to be anything like as good as he was towards the end of last season, then we have our midfield sorted. He would be able to be an effective attacking midfielder and we wouldn't need Kante to be as involved so high up the pitch.

Big questions for me re Kante's future with his injuries this season, Ndidi has been linked with us.

When we are against sides that close us down Kante is a liability as he misplaces his passes though that has been playing further forward. So I agree we do not want him as part of our attacking game.

We really need a midfield hardman to give Kovacic and ideally a new attacking AM with a decent shot the ball.

A big question mark over RLC until he get a few games under his belt, no doubting his quality just his resistance to injury.

Longer term I wonder if we still play out from the back in the next 1-2 yrs, it seems to create as many problems as it fixes and seems to require high expenditure investment in specialist players.

 

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I'm not sure anybody prefers Jorginho to Kante in games like yesterday. I have said all season that Kante's best games have been against the top sides, and that is because they aren't so defensive which helps bring out the best of Kante's abilities. I prefer Jorginho in the games where we are going to dominate the ball because Kante has become next to useless against these defensive sides. They both have their weaknesses depending on the type of team we play against.

The question going forward is, can we build a successful side with either of them next to Kovacic? I don't think in the long run it's possible with Jorginho, but it can be done with Kante as long as we improve the attacking areas of the pitch. I don't want to see Kante getting forward so much and chasing players all over the pitch, I don't think it works against defensive sides. If anything, Kante kills our attacks because attacking is something he isn't very good at. As long as we persist with Kante being so involved in our attacking game, we will suffer. Get him playing deeper so we have somebody to protect the defense instead of having somebody that looks like a headless chicken running around, killing our attacks and leaving us a man short in midfield when the opposition counter attack us. If Loftus-Cheek returns to be anything like as good as he was towards the end of last season, then we have our midfield sorted. He would be able to be an effective attacking midfielder and we wouldn't need Kante to be as involved so high up the pitch.

It's possible that I'm taking the chumps who mindlessly parrot stats without any understanding as to their meaning or context too seriously as a proportion of our fanbase. 

47 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Big questions for me re Kante's future with his injuries this season, Ndidi has been linked with us.

When we are against sides that close us down Kante is a liability as he misplaces his passes though that has been playing further forward. So I agree we do not want him as part of our attacking game.

We really need a midfield hardman to give Kovacic and ideally a new attacking AM with a decent shot the ball.

A big question mark over RLC until he get a few games under his belt, no doubting his quality just his resistance to injury.

Longer term I wonder if we still play out from the back in the next 1-2 yrs, it seems to create as many problems as it fixes and seems to require high expenditure investment in specialist players.

That'll be Ziyech then  🙂