I think it depends what he does.. Or did for work. If he was a big representative of his company I can see him getting sacked. Maybe he was already on a short lease and this was the last straw, don't know. 

On a first impression bases he is not a first time offender. 

What he is is an idiot. I'm glad he knows it himself. 

We are living in barmy times. It’s not uncommon for players or referees to the struck by objects thrown from the crowd, and yet a single incidence of a player being verbally abused receives more media attention.

Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?

The PC pendulum has swung way too far IMO

And as for suggestions that the fella should be disciplined for swearing and having an angry face. Stroll on . As others have said, should this include players and management?  If so Sir Alex Ferguson would be serving a life sentence in Wormwood Scrubs by now.

Snowflake generation tosh if you ask me.

 

 

 

No one in any posts contained within this thread has defended racism.

If the fan in question has made racist comments, then not only should the club take action, but he should also be liable for legal action against him too.

At this stage we don’t know if he has been racist. Racism is disgusting, and the narrative being presented in recent years that racism has become more insidious is accurate. Just because it has become less avert does not mean that it does not exist.

However, we don’t know if the bloke was being racist. Due process needs to be undertaken.

Watch any football match on TV and you will see fans making wan*er signs to players and shouting abuse. I just don’t get how this bloke’s behaviour is any worse than what goes on.

Why has he in particular been made such a scapegoat?

I would also like to know who instigated this witch hunt. Someone on social media declared that a football player had been racially abused. This person was not at the match. This person did not hear what was said.

Now that it looks like the fan may not have actually been racist the morally outraged from Tunbridge Wells want blood anyway.

I was at the Many City game. I heard chants from the Matthew Harding Stand calling the player in question a c**t. Most people in the family stand where I was sat laughed.

At the Everton game I sat near the Everton fans and watch dozens of Chelsea fans make provocative gestures to Everton fans supported with ‘blue’ language.

Everton fans sang in unison calling Ross Berkley a rent boy. Deriding his sexuality and life style choices in an abusive manner.

If it is shown that the fan at the centre of this storm was not actually racist what considering all that occurs at every game up and down the country has he done wrong?

The hypocrisy evident here is frustrating. From the media and football supporters alike.

All right, I can't help myself.  What does "43 seconds" signify?

The average amount of time you usually last when you get banned and return with a new shiny username.

21 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

The first time I heard my Dad swear was at Chelsea. I thought that was part of the attraction- letting off steam, getting the weeks frustration out of your system.

I realise I’m a dinosaur, and I wouldn’t knowingly scream the C Word if there were young kids sitting close by, but come on....

Just thinking- I don’t moderate my language at games for women- call me a sexist pig but see it as a male environment that by and large they’ve joined knowing the rules

And people wonder why year on year the atmosphere at games becomes progressively more sterile. 

Great points.

Think we have to accept that football has changed beyond all recognition - some (most) of it for the better, some of it for the worse. From a Chelsea perspective we are watching much better football in better facilities but it cost's a whole lot more and the atmosphere is nothing like it once was, despite always having a full stadium. I wonder how many of us would swap what we have now for what we had in the '70's and '80's?

Football has become more of a family thing - you see loads of women and kids at games now which is great but does mean crowd noise and singing has been massively effected as it has by the no terracing and all the foreign tourists. 

Going off at a slight tangent, the things that amazes me, which I have touched on before, is how modern society (including football) has progressed in so many ways and yet in other ways things could be viewed as worse. What I mean is, all of these "isms" have been stamped out (and rightly so), so it is an offence to be racist, sexist etc and yet standards have fallen dramatically in other areas such as the C word being commonplace on mainstream TV and the fact that there is very little censoring in the media and kids have access to hardcore porn.

Sometimes I just don't know where I am these days and it's no wonder the modern day youth (especially those from broken homes) have trouble in knowing what is right and wrong.   

 

6 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

The first time I heard my Dad swear was at Chelsea. I thought that was part of the attraction- letting off steam, getting the weeks frustration out of your system.

I realise I’m a dinosaur, and I wouldn’t knowingly scream the C Word if there were young kids sitting close by, but come on....

On the whole I see political correctness as very much a force for good, which has undeniably inspired positive change in society, but I do agree with this in a football context.

I have shouted some horrible things at games before: at the Tottenham game at the Bridge last season (the less said about that the better) a lady a few rows in front of me turned around and scowled at me after a particularly nasty torrent of abuse aimed at Dele Alli (I'm sure the words 'cheating c**t' featured). I was completely nonplussed by that.

4 hours ago, The Swan said:

Someone on social media declared that a football player had been racially abused. This person was not at the match. This person did not hear what was said.

 

Can you clarify if you are referring to the Sterling incident or the JT-Ferdinand case? Because the parallels are uncanny.

SoSterling havent confirmed it......no one heard him say the Word........no lip reader has confirmed yet........but the man and the Club are thrown to the Wind. When it comes to Chels, Theres no such thing as until proven guilty, you get f**ked either way. If I were thet guy, and knew for a fact I didnt say the word, I would get a quality lawyer and simply destroy the media and these baffoons rio etc. Theres no f**king way this would be so huge if it was one their darlings.......you know like last week with spurs where nothing was said. We truly are the boogey man.......that JT case confirmed it.

21 minutes ago, atomis said:

SoSterling havent confirmed it......no one heard him say the Word........no lip reader has confirmed yet........but the man and the Club are thrown to the Wind. When it comes to Chels, Theres no such thing as until proven guilty, you get f**ked either way. If I were thet guy, and knew for a fact I didnt say the word, I would get a quality lawyer and simply destroy the media and these baffoons rio etc. Theres no f**king way this would be so huge if it was one their darlings.......you know like last week with spurs where nothing was said. We truly are the boogey man.......that JT case confirmed it.

I believe in PL's media space there is no clear divison like in La liga for example. the objectivity is just as rare as in Spain but you can pull off small victories. Like having a pundits in the studios, or journalists to type down articles. 

We just need to keep winning trophies, play nice football, pop out with some native lads and stay away from Jose and Conte and the such. :D 

Edited December 12, 20187 yr by Giordano_Bruno

@atomis He won't though. the old phrase about a picture showing a thousand words or something to the effect runs true.

Unfortunately he was showing complete hatred with his expression and working in a respectable job they would be horrified their man had been seen in that light.

For me the real crime is showing a picture of his house and stating his town before he has been charged you don't even do that to a pedophile after they have been charged. 

I always noticed strange things and to give an example I noticed something strange after one of the finals in 90s. I left early because of the friends I was with and noticed about 200 chaps crouched down in the rain all with dark hair and wearing leather jackets. I got eye contact with a couple and they looked down.  

'Why are they sitting in the rain?'

Anyway on getting home the TV news was full of Chelsea fans riot in Wembley Way.

I thought back to those chaps and about 20 years later decided to investigate as I had time on my hands and looked to see who was arrested, were they Brits?

On going to Collindale and joining the British Library I went back through the newspapers and found just 2 arrests with names and addresses withheld, Horseferry magistrates.

That didn't compute given the TV coverage so I looked through the next two weeks of newspapers and found Thatcher was looking to bring in more restrictions against football fans yet it was blocked in parliament.  It is what I refer to as the dirty tricks brigade.

Edited December 12, 20187 yr by Strider6003

13 hours ago, moi said:

It is totally wrong that he should lose his job before this alleged offence has even been investigated.  I am not sure how legal it is to sack a member of staff for an incident occurring outside of the workplace.  The very most that might have been justified would have been suspension on full pay pending an investigation.

The notion of a life time ban seems Draconian.  People are sentenced to to life time in prison for murder, and are often released after ten years for good behaviour. 

You’re comparing a prison sentence to free man not being allowed to go into a specific place. A fairer comparison would be to somebody being barred from a pub. It’s not that big of a deal really and seems like a completely appropriate punishment for what he’s supposed to have done.

I agree it’s wrong he should lose his job before it’s been investigated. I’m not sure how accurate those reports are though - I haven’t been reading the news but the main source cited in here seems to be the Daily Mail...

Who the f**k gave the likes of dailymail the rights to show his house and where he lives? What rights and reason is that? As Strider said they dont even do that to killers and pedophiles.......why not wait till theres definite proof? You Eng have no honour......what the f**k is wrong with your country? I dont care how much they hate Chels, there must be a line they cant cross, a moment where you say we will await further information. Just imagine for a sec this was you, and you knew you didnt say the Word? Its talked about all day now......where was all this when spurs did it? If he did it, let him suffer, but its not proven yet but he has already paid a heavy price.......I for one would have gone mental and would have done everything to clear my name and f**k the opposition up. Horrible system and media,  and that c**t rio who was more that willing to give credit to the guy who said chock ice regarding AC, the f**ker hasnt got a foot to stand on and yet he is feeling mighty righteous.......big fools the lot of them.

30 minutes ago, atomis said:

Who the f**k gave the likes of dailymail the rights to show his house and where he lives? What rights and reason is that? As Strider said they dont even do that to killers and pedophiles.......why not wait till theres definite proof? You Eng have no honour......what the f**k is wrong with your country? I dont care how much they hate Chels, there must be a line they cant cross, a moment where you say we will await further information. Just imagine for a sec this was you, and you knew you didnt say the Word? Its talked about all day now......where was all this when spurs did it? If he did it, let him suffer, but its not proven yet but he has already paid a heavy price.......I for one would have gone mental and would have done everything to clear my name and f**k the opposition up. Horrible system and media,  and that c**t rio who was more that willing to give credit to the guy who said chock ice regarding AC, the f**ker hasnt got a foot to stand on and yet he is feeling mighty righteous.......big fools the lot of them.

I think the Mail has Russian ownership now rather than being English. 

Saw this online...

Chelsea have themselves drafted in lip-reading experts to help them analyse the footage and are passing on their evidence to police, which is expected to form part of the investigation. Police are also thought to be using their own lip-readers.

Forensic speechreading company 121 Captions have worked with the Metropolitan Police, Crown Prosecution Service and The National Crime Agency.

After watching the footage, one of their experts said Colin shouted "you f***ing Manc c***, f*** you, you d***head" at Sterling.

Another expert, Terry Ruane, who has helped police investigations by examining CCTV footage for clues, watched the clip at least 20 times.

"The only way to distinguish between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’ is if you see the tongue movement in ‘black’.

"I have reviewed this at least 20 times and I just can’t catch the tongue which would prove he definitely did say ‘black’."

"My feeling is he did indeed say ‘f***ing Manc c***’ – however ‘Manc’ is said in such an offensive way that makes it almost look like ‘w***’.

“Additionally, I don’t think anybody who isn’t an experienced lip-reader would think there was a similarity between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’.

“So it is quite possible that he did genuinely say ‘Manc’."

2 hours ago, bluedave said:

You’re comparing a prison sentence to free man not being allowed to go into a specific place. A fairer comparison would be to somebody being barred from a pub. It’s not that big of a deal really and seems like a completely appropriate punishment for what he’s supposed to have done.

I agree it’s wrong he should lose his job before it’s been investigated. I’m not sure how accurate those reports are though - I haven’t been reading the news but the main source cited in here seems to be the Daily Mail...

I thought you were comparing the losing of a job to a jaunt to the pub and was about to strongly disagree lol. Glad I caught my mistaken comprehension before posting it.

While on the surface a lifetime ban for racial abuse makes sense I actually think a better approach is the one that was taken, if I'm not mistaken, not long back with some fans who engaged in anti-Semitic behavior/language where Roman offered to have them go to a holocaust museum and education course in order to reverse their ban.

I'd support a lifetime ban for racism that can be overturned by the offender doing some sort of charity/community work towards the issue they are guilty of and potentially even some education course on the topic.

Much rather see an effort to reform than just punish, but the punishment should obviously apply until the reform occurs.

20 minutes ago, JMaher94 said:

Saw this online...

Chelsea have themselves drafted in lip-reading experts to help them analyse the footage and are passing on their evidence to police, which is expected to form part of the investigation. Police are also thought to be using their own lip-readers.

Forensic speechreading company 121 Captions have worked with the Metropolitan Police, Crown Prosecution Service and The National Crime Agency.

After watching the footage, one of their experts said Colin shouted "you f***ing Manc c***, f*** you, you d***head" at Sterling.

Another expert, Terry Ruane, who has helped police investigations by examining CCTV footage for clues, watched the clip at least 20 times.

"The only way to distinguish between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’ is if you see the tongue movement in ‘black’.

"I have reviewed this at least 20 times and I just can’t catch the tongue which would prove he definitely did say ‘black’."

"My feeling is he did indeed say ‘f***ing Manc c***’ – however ‘Manc’ is said in such an offensive way that makes it almost look like ‘w***’.

“Additionally, I don’t think anybody who isn’t an experienced lip-reader would think there was a similarity between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’.

“So it is quite possible that he did genuinely say ‘Manc’."

Well well well........what can you say really, a proper hunt without any proof and cuz he is a life long Chels. And yes it has indeed something to do with he is a Chels, cuz we saw and heard nothing when spurs did it. Lets see if the likes rio, wright and all them pathetic little girls have any balls and decency to come out and apoligize.......like f**k they will. He simply cannot let this fly, he simply must not allow it. There comes a time when a person must stand up and fight for his rights, and who is gonna pay for the damages done to him? Man I would have loved if this was me........even if I couldnt get a single dime, I would make sure the media and a selected few dont jump the gun and await further proof before the nuclear bomb goes off.

1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

I think the Mail has Russian ownership now rather than being English. 

Well you could fool me......didnt know that, still its all there for everyone to see how disgusting and vile the British media are.

1 hour ago, JMaher94 said:

Saw this online...

Chelsea have themselves drafted in lip-reading experts to help them analyse the footage and are passing on their evidence to police, which is expected to form part of the investigation. Police are also thought to be using their own lip-readers.

Forensic speechreading company 121 Captions have worked with the Metropolitan Police, Crown Prosecution Service and The National Crime Agency.

After watching the footage, one of their experts said Colin shouted "you f***ing Manc c***, f*** you, you d***head" at Sterling.

Another expert, Terry Ruane, who has helped police investigations by examining CCTV footage for clues, watched the clip at least 20 times.

"The only way to distinguish between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’ is if you see the tongue movement in ‘black’.

"I have reviewed this at least 20 times and I just can’t catch the tongue which would prove he definitely did say ‘black’."

"My feeling is he did indeed say ‘f***ing Manc c***’ – however ‘Manc’ is said in such an offensive way that makes it almost look like ‘w***’.

“Additionally, I don’t think anybody who isn’t an experienced lip-reader would think there was a similarity between ‘black’ and ‘Manc’.

“So it is quite possible that he did genuinely say ‘Manc’."

Taken from The Sun:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7950209/chelsea-colin-wing-abuse-raheem-sterling-black-man/

But placed below a feature on the guy commenting on the Paris incident, with strong implication that he must be a racist because of what he said back then.

I would have thought with an expert like that there's no way he could be convicted in court of racial abuse (or even charged, given the difficulty of getting a conviction). Other than in an FA kangaroo court. But I don't think the FA get to try fans.

I reckon all the big clubs have lipreading experts on the payroll. Thats why the players/managers started covering their mouths on the pitch?

22 minutes ago, coco said:

I reckon all the big clubs have lipreading experts on the payroll. Thats why the players/managers started covering their mouths on the pitch?

Don't buy that though accept TV companies and press can afford to employ them to highlight examples of interest.

20 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I think the Mail has Russian ownership now rather than being English. 

Looked online and can't back that up, they are part of the DMG media group which has a global flavour.

Can't recall where I heard the Russian comment. Could be to do with the shareholders or may just been malignant gossip.

One thing I do notice with the media in other respects where they go over the top. I'm not a fan of Corbyn yet detest the fact that TV cameras are placed outside his residence and question him while he is getting on his bike to start his journey to the HoC. 

I think in both respects you are potentially making people a future target for real nutcases.

On 12/12/2018 at 11:31, Phillip said:

All right, I can't help myself.  What does "43 seconds" signify?

The time it takes an Italian to win an FA Cup final. 

On 09/12/2018 at 02:06, moi said:

So absolutely nobody is objecting to the word c**t? How sweet!

Try working in the building industry, you'll be completely numbed to words such as that.

38 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Try working in the building industry, you'll be completely numbed to words such as that.

As an Irish fella, the word c**t is just something a lot of us just use so casually, when i'm greeting mates 'alright c**t' or when someone does something stupid, 'you're some c**t'

If i was in america or something though i'd expect people to get extremely offended, but horses for courses