14 hours ago, coco said:

Hopefully the press willage with the black Chelsea s upporter behind the fans screaming abuse, being black and a Chelsea supporter it will be interesting to hear his account.

They spoke to him, he said he never heard and racist language At all..  

I was around in the 70's, if you weren't, then please take my word for it, you cannot compare what it was like back then to now, it's completely different nowadays thankfully, you will never fully 100% stamp it out, when they get caught they get lifetime bans usually, that never used to happen, on the whole this World is a different World to the World in the 70s. 

 

And anyway why the hell is this wife beating scumbag getting space on the BBC website ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46504491

As a black Chelsea fan each time these incidents happen unfortunately like Sterling it doesn't surprise me just like my day to day life when it happens whether it's conscious or unconscious. The guardian publish a damming report I believe two Sundays ago regarding institutional racism and it was spot on.

2018 Britian is very very racists just like it was before, only now it sits behind closed doors, group chats and fake smile's.

Plays into the narrative very well of racist old Chelsea. 

The guys in that video all need to take a long hard look at themselves, regardless if they were being racist of not. Gammon faced 50+ year old men screaming blue murder at a 24 year old lad collecting a football. 

How grim must your life be to be that angry? I am all for banter and a bit of needle, but those guys looked absolutely pathetic and devoid of anything else in their life but Chelsea.

 

My take on this;

- As every other Chelsea fan on here, and everywhere else, has already said, if he is proved to be guilty then he deserves a life ban and criminal prosecution.

- "IF" is the key word though. I have watched the clip many times and still couldn't say for sure whether he said "black" or "manc". Both are completely possible. On this basis I find it very disturbing (but entirely predictable) that so many former players & pundits (and Piers Morgan) have jumped in and acted as judge, jury & executioner. Trial by twitter is in full effect and the pitch forks and sharper than ever.

- I personally think the reaction of Sterling (both at the moment the incident occurred and later on social media) are more in keeping with someone who didn't hear exactly what was said. if he did you, you would think he would make that clear on social media (if he chose to post about it, which he did) rather than leave it open to interpretation.

- I also think it's unlikely (but not completely inconceivable) that anyone is stupid enough to shout racial abuse to a player in 2018 whilst siting in row one and quite obviously in the capture of live TV cameras.

- Ultimately, the club and authorities should be allowed to do their job and with genuine lip readings experts (not Rio Ferdinand or Piers Morgan) in order to confirm what he said. In the meantime, 'innocent until proven guilty' should really apply (but I know there is no such thing on social media).

- The "Raheem Sterling, he runs like a girl" song is completely harmless in my opinion, and if anyone finds that genuinely offensive (including Raheem himself) then I give up.

10 minutes ago, Brutos said:

As a black Chelsea fan each time these incidents happen unfortunately like Sterling it doesn't surprise me just like my day to day life when it happens whether it's conscious or unconscious. The guardian publish a damming report I believe two Sundays ago regarding institutional racism and it was spot on.

2018 Britian is very very racists just like it was before, only now it sits behind closed doors, group chats and fake smile's.

That's sad to hear Brutos.

2 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

My take on this;

- As every other Chelsea fan on here, and everywhere else, has already said, if he is proved to be guilty then he deserves a life ban and criminal prosecution.

- "IF" is the key word though. I have watched the clip many times and still couldn't say for sure whether he said "black" or "manc". Both are completely possible. On this basis I find it very disturbing (but entirely predictable) that so many former players & pundits (and Piers Morgan) have jumped in and acted as judge, jury & executioner. Trial by twitter is in full effect and the pitch forks and sharper than ever.

- I personally think the reaction of Sterling (both at the moment the incident occurred and later on social media) are more in keeping with someone who didn't hear exactly what was said. if he did you, you would think he would make that clear on social media (if he chose to post about it, which he did) rather than leave it open to interpretation.

- I also think it's unlikely (but not completely inconceivable) that anyone is stupid enough to shout racial abuse to a player in 2018 whilst siting in row one and quite obviously in the capture of live TV cameras.

- Ultimately, the club and authorities should be allowed to do their job and with genuine lip readings experts (not Rio Ferdinand or Piers Morgan) in order to confirm what he said. In the meantime, 'innocent until proven guilty' should really apply (but I know there is no such thing on social media).

- The "Raheem Sterling, he runs like a girl" song is completely harmless in my opinion, and if anyone finds that genuinely offensive (including Raheem himself) then I give up.

spot on mate. 

I know in criminal justice it means the world of difference if he says black or manc but a world where a 50+ yr old man feels the need to shout anything with the word c**t to a young footballer is not a good place. That man is just sad. I have no idea where in the world that is a good idea or something that he should be proud of.

I'm hoping he doesn't teach this to his children. 

If I were one of those guys and shouted «manc ****» at Sterling and not «black ****» i’d be very, very quick to try to spread what was actually said.
They are clearly very easy to identify for anyone who knows them and if in fact didn’t say anything racist I’d be damn quick that get that fact out.

@mclovin83  nailed it. Let the club and the law decide what offence has been committed, if racist behaviour has occurred I hope the strictest penalties will be dealt out.

 

19 minutes ago, evissy said:

I know in criminal justice it means the world of difference if he says black or manc but a world where a 50+ yr old man feels the need to shout anything with the word c**t to a young footballer is not a good place. That man is just sad. I have no idea where in the world that is a good idea or something that he should be proud of.

I'm hoping he doesn't teach this to his children. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning their actions and if it was indeed racially motivated as others have suggested it warrants a ban and criminal prosecution, but to suggest a 50+ yr old man should stay quiet and not shout any abuse is perhaps a bit OTT - emotions were running high in the aftermath of a 'coming together' between Luiz and Sterling a few minutes before.

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by the special one

1 hour ago, guddy69 said:

They spoke to him, he said he never heard and racist language At all..  

 

1 hour ago, coco said:

I was around in the 70's, if you weren't, then please take my word for it, you cannot compare what it was like back then to now, it's completely different nowadays thankfully, you will never fully 100% stamp it out, when they get caught they get lifetime bans usually, that never used to happen, on the whole this World is a different World to the World in the 70s. 

 

And anyway why the hell is this wife beating scumbag getting space on the BBC website ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46504491

Yep. Half the Shed would have got life bans if today’s standards were applied to the 70s early 80’s.

Its ironic how some football reporters who were around back then when hundreds/ thousands of fans were singing risqué songs, never stuck their head above the parapet and condemned it.

I’ve reservations over Kick it Out 

They are a vested interest group and it is in their interest to blow any incident out of proportion in order to justify their being.

They’ve extended their initial brief from racism to sexism, homophobia, and various other grievance zones-  a nice niche growth industry- the headlines scream that according to their records racism is on the increase at football. Is it bollox. Analysis reveals that this is at grass football ( ie 22 blokes and a dog playing park football)

So the situation hasn’t deteriated at all, it’s just that there is now a vehicle for classifying so called hate crime at say Hackney Marshes on a Sunday morning that didn’t previously exist.

41,000 plus people watching a game of football, and we are talking about the alleged behaviour of a few blokes.

Huge over reaction if you ask me.

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by Ewell CFC

I wanted to keep out of this but I just can't help but be annoyed by the relative reaction to this incident compared to the banana throwing incident last week. Ok they both made the news and appeared on the back pages, but the huge amount of discussion and comment that has resulted when it has occurred at Stamford Bridge is notable. John Barnes on BBC breakfast, Stan Collymore in the Guardian and so on. Perhaps it's just down to our historic reputation and that most other supporters, press and pundits loathe us and everything we do. But then again, maybe it's even just somewhat ironically down to the fact that one victim is a high profile England international playing for the Premier league holders and the other was just some 'bloody foreigner'? Difficult to get my head around how reactions to similar types of event garner different levels of reaction at different times. Maybe that's a small part of why the blight of racism continues due to selective outrage at it. One thing does seem clear; if it involves Chelsea it's bigger news than Brexit and one way or the other, Chelsea FC in a curious way seem to do more to highlight and promote the work of Kick It Out than any other club in the country.

Anyway, I think that if there is sufficient evidence to prove that the abuse was racial then they should obviously be punished with a severe ban. [Satire] Maybe an eight game ban like Suarez received from the FA for racially abusing Evra? Or just 4 games as handed out to JT? That should cure racism.

27 minutes ago, evissy said:

I know in criminal justice it means the world of difference if he says black or manc but a world where a 50+ yr old man feels the need to shout anything with the word c**t to a young footballer is not a good place. That man is just sad. I have no idea where in the world that is a good idea or something that he should be proud of.

I'm hoping he doesn't teach this to his children. 

I guess that getting excited about 22 men/women in shorts kicking a ball to put it inside a goal and wasting work time discussing about it on internet is also not something to be proud of if you are a grown up... If one thing differentiates football in Europe from other sports, is that the banter, rivalries, excitement, etc makes it more than what I just said.

40 minutes ago, the special one said:

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning their actions and if it was indeed racially motivated as others have suggested it warrants a ban and criminal prosecution, but to suggest a 50+ yr old man should stay quiet and not shout any abuse is perhaps a bit OTT - emotions were running high in the aftermath of a 'coming together' between Luiz and Sterling a few minutes before.

I really don't understand the urge to get into someone's face and scream abuse, but perhaps that is just me.

Good-natured banter is quite different in my view.

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by Valerie

1 hour ago, Brutos said:

As a black Chelsea fan each time these incidents happen unfortunately like Sterling it doesn't surprise me just like my day to day life when it happens whether it's conscious or unconscious. The guardian publish a damming report I believe two Sundays ago regarding institutional racism and it was spot on.

2018 Britian is very very racists just like it was before, only now it sits behind closed doors, group chats and fake smile's.

As Coco said, that is sad to hear @Brutos.

I totally get that there are folk who are still racist but not as openly as they used to be as they know they will get in serious trouble. But I honestly thought things had progressed to a large extent and as the "older generation" fall by the wayside, the new generation are much more "live & let live" and are more onboard with the multi-national society. There is No Way that football grounds are anything like as bad as they once were - we all know the songs and chants that you used to hear regularly down at The Bridge (and many grounds) back in the '70's & '80's that thankfully are confined to the past and it really is just the odd incident that makes the headlines. I think the fact this came so soon after the Spurs v Arsenal incident and the fact that guy looked so aggressive in the photo, made it another regrettable headline, when everyone should have been talking about a great Chelsea performance.

 

 

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by Nibs

30 minutes ago, Snedger said:

I wanted to keep out of this but I just can't help but be annoyed by the relative reaction to this incident compared to the banana throwing incident last week. Ok they both made the news and appeared on the back pages, but the huge amount of discussion and comment that has resulted when it has occurred at Stamford Bridge is notable. John Barnes on BBC breakfast, Stan Collymore in the Guardian and so on. Perhaps it's just down to our historic reputation and that most other supporters, press and pundits loathe us and everything we do. But then again, maybe it's even just somewhat ironically down to the fact that one victim is a high profile England international playing for the Premier league holders and the other was just some 'bloody foreigner'? Difficult to get my head around how reactions to similar types of event garner different levels of reaction at different times. Maybe that's a small part of why the blight of racism continues due to selective outrage at it. One thing does seem clear; if it involves Chelsea it's bigger news than Brexit and one way or the other, Chelsea FC in a curious way seem to do more to highlight and promote the work of Kick It Out than any other club in the country.

Anyway, I think that if there is sufficient evidence to prove that the abuse was racial then they should obviously be punished with a severe ban. [Satire] Maybe an eight game ban like Suarez received from the FA for racially abusing Evra? Or just 4 games as handed out to JT? That should cure racism.

The banana incident is a lot worse - primarily because how many people bring a banana into a football ground to have as a snack. That was premeditated. 

But this incident hits a lot more marks to play into a media narrative; 

1) It's Chelsea. We are the racist club. John Terry + Paris saw to that. 

2) It happened on TV and there was a degree of "did he or didn't he" 

3) It happened to Sterling. The poster boy of football racism (couldnt think of a better phrase, but he's the person we think of with racism and todays footballers because of the media witchhunt).

4) The visuals were striking. 3 old men screaming at a young black footballer. It would make every person up and down the country embarrassed - regardless of what they were saying. 

5) Oh and it happened a week after Tottenham did the banana throwing - it feeds into the building narrative. 

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by benjsross

7 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I really don't understand the urge to get into someone's face and scream abuse, but perhaps that is just me.

I'm with you Val - maybe some of us mellow more with age!

Back in the day, not saying it was acceptable, but with terracing and hooliganism, it was commonplace. But the way football has been re-branded as a product and with all-seater stadiums, it looks (and IS) wrong to see anyone and in particular grown, middle-aged men, to be screaming abuse at footballers, even is said footballer players for a hated rival. The only time I would say any sort of allowance could be made is if an opposition player scored and then gave it large to the home support (Ali & Dyer at Spurs), but even then try and do it with a bit of class!

 

 

6 minutes ago, benjsross said:

The banana incident is a lot worse - primarily because how many people bring a banana into a football ground to have as a snack. That was premeditated. 

But this incident hits a lot more marks to play into a media narrative; 

1) It's Chelsea. We are the racist club. John Terry + Paris saw to that. 

2) It happened on TV and there was a degree of "did he or didn't he" 

3) It happened to Sterling. The poster boy of football racism (couldnt think of a better phrase, but he's the person we think of with racism and todays footballers because of the media witchhunt).

4) The visuals were striking. 3 old men screaming at a young black footballer. It would make every person up and down the country embarrassed - regardless of what they were saying. 

I agree with you in that is a lot worse, but I have brought a banana from time to time to midweek matches. I normally bring some baguette and a piece of fruit, many times a banana, to keep me going until I get back home after midnight. I eat it and put it in the bin, like a normal person. Being Mediterranean I see normal that someone took a banana to have some fruit to eat at half time. Now, throwing it to the players, that is bad and I think it is worse than shouting abuse.

13 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I really don't understand the urge to get into someone's face and scream abuse, but perhaps that is just me.

Good-natured banter is quite different in my view.

How would you react if you perceive Sterling to have tried to injure David Luiz? With just good and friendly natured banter?

4 hours ago, Valerie said:

That's exactly what the police are investigating, as racial abuse is a crime. 

And it seems to me that abuse, even if it's not racial or homophobic or whatever, can be as unpleasant to one who is on huge wages as for one on low wages. The fact that it's deemed "normal" - mostly by the abusers - doesn't make it more palatable.

Okay and I'm clearly arguing for due process, people are getting way ahead of themselves and it's always innocent until proven guilty. 

1 hour ago, Brutos said:

As a black Chelsea fan each time these incidents happen unfortunately like Sterling it doesn't surprise me just like my day to day life when it happens whether it's conscious or unconscious. The guardian publish a damming report I believe two Sundays ago regarding institutional racism and it was spot on.

2018 Britian is very very racists just like it was before, only now it sits behind closed doors, group chats and fake smile's.

I'm full Turkish background and I've never experienced racism in Britain, or any sort of "institutional racism", although not sure The Guardian that is full of SJW's and the PC police is a strong source for that. 

To say Britain is a "very very racist" country when statistically it's one of the least racist countries in the world is pretty damning, there was a study made by Washington Post asking "Would you live next to a family of a difference race" and the results are very positive in Western countries, not so much elsewhere. And to say that it sits behind closed doors and it has no longer vanished is having a major chip on your shoulder. 

34 minutes ago, the special one said:

How would you react if you perceive Sterling to have tried to injure David Luiz? With just good and friendly natured banter?

 Some booing might be my response, certainly not screaming abuse.

1 hour ago, the special one said:

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning their actions and if it was indeed racially motivated as others have suggested it warrants a ban and criminal prosecution, but to suggest a 50+ yr old man should stay quiet and not shout any abuse is perhaps a bit OTT - emotions were running high in the aftermath of a 'coming together' between Luiz and Sterling a few minutes before.

I absolutely get this. Football-match is a great place to vent your energy by shouting. Probably does good somehow. What you shout is an other thing. 

Something that has been annoying me about this is the way some football pundits and some people in the media are discussing this. They are completely ignoring the alleged part in all of this.

I was watching MOTD2 last night, and the presenter made it clear that it's ALLEGED racism, and she pointed that out when she started talking about it, but then you have Alex Scott not acknowledging the alleged part at all and is just going with definite racism without any investigation being concluded. Her line of thought is guilty until proven innocent and I think she is very wrong to do that. If it comes out that he is now innocent, then they will have to do a lot of back tracking and apologise. You can't accuse somebody of being racist and then brush it under the carpet if that person isn't actually guilty of it.

I'm not liking this trial by social media that is going on either. We can't know for sure what was said, it's hard to tell if he says "black" or "manc", it could even be something else entirely.