9 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

At least Sarri knows what the problem is and he’s trying to solve it. 

Clearly a lot of managers had the same problem with this squad, at least Sarri won’t be as destructive as Mourinho and Conte, he may get enough time to figure it out.

Possibly Hazard? Everybody clearly looks up to him and he has admitted himself he’s only in it to enjoy playing football rather than compete for trophies.

He may know what the problem is but will not do anything about it

howe said they targeted Jorginho as the weak link !! Now we all know this guy is a liability but he will keep on playing him cause he’s his golden boy

10 hours ago, just said:

I love you Hemel Blue. You are so obviously one of lifes eternal optimists. I could imagine if someone had tell you your dog had been run over, you'd say "ah no! Not poor Rover! We loved him! ............ But never mind, we've still got the cat"

Oh no i couldnt say that, i love dogs.I am coming up 63 so i tend not to over react to football anymore.Seen some REAL lows over the seasons and football can kick you in the nuts if you let it.Its best to look on the brightside in life because sh*t does happen.

39 minutes ago, abramovich said:

It's a mess, no question about it.

The players deserve criticism for the shocking display in the second half and this side does need an overhaul, but in the beginning of the match they did look sharp and moved the ball around fast. The thing is, the longer the game went on, the less effective the team looked. So my impression was, the players ARE motivated, but whether consciously or not, they stopped trusting Sarri's methods because clearly, at least at this point in time, it's not working. It's like someone tells you there's a treasure buried in the backyard, you dig for days, weeks, months and there's nothing but old garbage pops up and he just says keep digging, it's there. At some point you'd want to climb out of a ditch and hit him with a shovel. To me, that second half showing was their frustrated reaction to what he's coaching. "Never mind, just keep passing the ball a bit more". 

Our players tend to down their tools when things get tough, but I think in this particular situation it's more of a case of obvious frustration and confusion, because they clearly do try, it's just not working time after time and eventually they just give up.

That's a very weak excuse for the players. To simply stop working because the opposition is showing resistance is no excuse at all actually.

First half, Kovacic hits the bar from 5 yards, Pedro shoots poorly in a 1v1 situation against a defender from 10 yards, Hazard shoots poorly, Azpi's shot is saved, Higuain is offside, half time was 0:0.

Second half, Brooks not marked, passes to the 10 yards and it's a goal, Brooks not marked and scores, Stanislas not marked passes to King that is not marked and it's 3:0...

I don't give a sh*t that the players think that the tactics are not working at the moment, when Conte set up a wall against Barcelona nothing was working for Messi once again but he and his team including an old Iniesta kept working and working and it paid off they got a gift goal, because they are a big team, some day ago Manutd was 2:0 down at home but kept working and managed to avoid defeat, Spuds losing 1:nil before half time and then scored first at min 80' and then 5 min later they score again and win the game, without Kane.

This whole argument how our players simply refuse to play when things are not going smoothly always makes them sound like they are some divas and nothing else, seems that as soon as any manager tactically doesn't totally win them the game they won't bother to fight for the result or for the club, that's how it sounds.

Is it too hard to keep possession whole game and be in control? Too hard to not let a few goals in as soon as they lose the ball? Then say goodbye to top 4, the team could have kept the ball and played at least 0:0 but the blew it, every single loose ball was a counter attack and almost every counter attack was a goal.

But then when we play man city again, the whole squad will actually be motivated and will show the quality to win even with Hazard playing as a false 9 if needed, but don't worry if Sarri tries the same thing against a lesser opposition then the players will suddenly put their heads down and point the fingers to him how the false 9 doesn't work and that they are not having fun.

I'm tired of these players being hot and cold depending if it's windy or if they are not playing a big enough team. With this level of consistency in performance no wonder 1 year we win the league and the next we can't be among top 4.

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by Gol15

5 hours ago, Lord said:

The reactions are too knee jerk.

Yes, we shouldn’t be losing 4-0 to silly Bournemouth, but give the manager at least one full season before jumping to conclusions. People are calling for Sarri’s head already. 

We are probably the most “knee-jerk” set of fans in the Premiership. We can still win a cup or two (who knows all three!) and finish in Champions league places. That’s a very good season for me considering how gloomy everything was at the end of last season. 

 

To a certain extent I do agree with you. Some of the posts made last night were clearly emotional.

However, going onto national television and saying that you don't know how to motivate the players in different times would have been a suicidal move. Managers such as RDM must be looking at this situation in astonishment at the leverage Sarri has had.  This is potentially as much of a watershed moment for the owner as it is for the manager. The resolution of the Conte situation took so long and was completely out of character for a club who's owner has historically had a rapier like approach to dealing with failure and washing the laundry in public. Here again now, after Sarri's public criticising of his players just a couple of weeks ago to confess that you don't know how to motivate them publicly whilst your billionaire business entrepreneur is looking on (or possibly can't be ar$ed any more) may well be a line in the sand.

We brought in Conte as a revolutionary, to revolutionize the work ethic of a perceived bunch of prima donnas and so called "rats" that had undermined the previous manager. When Conte introduced the level of discipline and hard work and indeed revolutionised the style of football he was hailed. When he then followed through by dealing with the petulant striker we at first applauded his stones, but then when it all turned to sh!t because the club didn't/couldn't match his ambition and he then petulantly played out his frustration publicly and brought the team and the style of football down he was vilified and ultimately discarded.

Now we have brought in another revolutionary who has not yet won anything but is the antithesis of the previous boring negative football by playing fast paced expansive attacking football. It's going to be a roller coaster boys but its going to be fun. Here we are six months on and well actually no, we seem to be playing slow, possession football, which is very reminiscent to me to the end of the reigns of both Conte and Mourinho, just a bit further up the pitch and because of this we are constantly exposing our inability to defend.

It all looks like a somewhat comical, exaggerated, soap opera being played out and I think the latest media soundbite we be pushing the club towards the tipping point.

Will the club back the revolutionary and therefore, by the very nature, go through a revolution by discarded the dead wood and completely overhauling and revamping the playing staff to match the intended playing style or will the club revert to type, do very little, eventually bottling it and bombing off this manager and replace with another slightly different, but very similar head for the ultimate chopping block....and around we go again.

Unfortunately whilst I would love to see option A I suspect that the club will meet my current expectations of them and plump for option B...eventually, after a few more of this humiliations, I suspect.

 

Are we really using this excuse. To me the players looked motivated, but no matter how much possession we have we arent affective with it. This has been going on for months now. The tactics arent working, he refuses to rotate. I mean how much more do some players ie christensen and CHO need to do. They are clearly better than what is on show at the moment. We played 6 games in a row with no striker and a lot before that with giroud. Its a wonder morata scored the amount he did. That system clearly wasent working yet he refused to change. Higuain received no service today so how long till we turn on him. Its clear to see this just isnt the right fit. And as a club our vision now is to buy young and try and promote from within, and sarris held us to ransom over buying a 31 or so year old, declining forward. So much for him banging on about how he isnt interested in transfers, when all hes tried to do is downplay our existing ones, and try and get in his own.

I think this Sarri experiment wont be a success here because his vision is different from that of the board. He like old experience players, while the board want to spend there money only on young players. I don't see how it can work. The board should have done there research well before bringing signing him.

Sarri said "maybe I am not able to motivate these players". 

Maybe he should try picking some different ones then? 

Emerson did hurt us a lot today in my opinion. didn't hold his line, and missed a header early that led to a save.  you can see the talent, but to me he had the worse game on the team.

But Alonso have been consistently bad, in games we lost and sometimes we won despite him playing bad. So I can't blame Emerson for this defeat, he deserve a run of games before I can decide if Alonso is better or not.

Cannot subscribe to the notion that the players do not think the tactics are working. We pressed fairly well for the majority last night, we were undone on Counter attacks and sloppy play. They certainly haven't downed tools. This is a style most will want to play. Certainly more so than Conte or Jose's style.

31 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Sarri said "maybe I am not able to motivate these players". 

Maybe he should try picking some different ones then? 

That's an awful comment imo, even though it's probably taken out of context a bit... Don't say things like that. 

Do not be a defeatist, we can still do something, the club should support Sarri but it won't help the cause if he looks like a broken man. 

As much as I despise the manager merry-go-round, all the signs point towards an early exit for Sarri.

An unwillingness to adapt.... Players not showing up.... The basics not being done correctly.... Everything screams a manager that has lost control of the situation, and the club simply cannot afford to not be in the 'big money' euro competition next season.

Sure there are players that need getting rid of, but the shortcomings of the manager outweigh that right now, in my opinion.

The latest example of the club not having a joined up approach and collective way forward that everybody, from the top down, buys into.

If you don't have a proper vision and structure, and continually make short-term snap decisions, what else should you expect.

This really hurts losing 4-0 to Bournemouth.  Sarri coming out saying that he cannot motivate the players is also terrible and I think is a weak statement.  I think being a manager for Chelsea is a big job at our big club and requires more than just not being able to motivate the players.  I could be wrong but this is my take on what's happening.  Sarri has 100% trust in Jorginho and to him Jorginho cannot be dropped.  This is Chelsea's biggest weakness as it makes it easy for opponents to analyse and to beat us - i will give more information on this.  We are actually a very good side especially against other big teams that try to outplay us.  We have shown this against City and Liverpool where we ended up having space and passing well and creating chances.  However the EPL is tough - it does not have only big performers like City and Liverpool and a manager should be smart enough to know that the tactic that works against City will not necessarily work against Crystal Palace or in this case Bournemouth.  

How Chelsea are easy to neutralise

Smaller clubs will have to rely on beating us on tactics and this is easy,  Spurs did it first by pressing Jorginho.  When Jorginho is pressed - he simply passes sideways to kante or back to Luiz, Rudiger or Kepa.  This results in his very high % pass stats - but unfortunately this leads to no dangerous position or attack for Chelsea.  In this zone - opponents are happy to fake a press on kante or Kovacic who in turn return the ball to Jorginho and this cycle repeats for 10 to 20 times, eventually we lose the ball and this is where sh*t hits the fan,  Opponents leave 3 fast players lingering around the middle of the pitch and when we lose the ball, these guys sprint thrugh Jorginho who offers very little in both tactical defence to stop the counter attack early and also lacks pace to catch up with these guys.  We are on the back foot at this phase and normally its 3 v 3 or 3v 2 situations.  We are in trouble at this stage cause Luiz is a good tactical defender but not a good 1 on 1 defender and loses these battles more than he wins them.  The opponents may score or miss but they are happy to have this cycle go on for the 90 mins resulting in a win or draw for them.  Spurs, Bournemouth Leicester and Wolves have implemented this tactic with Bournemouth confirming they actually targeted Jorginho as the weakest link.  

What we can do

Since Jorginho has contributed sparingly(and i am being polite here - given he has 0 assists) to our attacks, he really should not be starting as our CDM especially against teams that press and target him.  I think against bigger teams he is okay cause they they try to overpower us and its blow for blow, but against these minnows - we need Kante in CDM.  These teams are happy to sit back and be compact so the best way to break them is to have good ball players in our midfield and have options of mids who actually get into the box more often and can dribble.   Playing Loftus Cheek is a no brainer given his desire to take on players, shrug off the early 'fake' press and score.  I would also consider putting Willian as the 3rd cental player.  I know Willian frustrates as a winger cause his end product is mostly bad but he has good ball control and can beat this press on both skill and pace.  Kovacic looks good but for me he has no threat in the box and shooting wise he is really bad! This creates a a very dynamic mid for us with good ball players and a solid CDM who can tactically stop counters and as make up with pace against counters. 

The forward 3 should be Hazard Giroud/Higuain and Pedro/Odoi.  I dont care which of those start cause to me they offer the same and will create and score equal goals in my opinion.    This is my tactical assessment and again - i am no expert and could be wrong but i think a manager should be trying something different as opposed to talking about mental preparation and lack of motivation.  

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by dhidza

12 minutes ago, dhidza said:

This really hurts losing 4-0 to Bournemouth.  Sarri coming out saying that he cannot motivate the players is also terrible and I think is a weak statement.  I think being a manager for Chelsea is a big job at our big club and requires more than just not being able to motivate the players.  I could be wrong but this is my take on what's happening.  Sarri has 100% trust in Jorginho and to him Jorginho cannot be dropped.  This is Chelsea's biggest weakness as it makes it easy for opponents to analyse and to beat us - i will give more information on this.  We are actually a very good side especially against other big teams that try to outplay us.  We have shown this against City and Liverpool where we ended up having space and passing well and creating chances.  However the EPL is tough - it does not have only big performers like City and Liverpool and a manager should be smart enough to know that the tactic that works against City will not necessarily work against Crystal Palace or in this case Bournemouth.  

How Chelsea are easy to neutralise

Smaller clubs will have to rely on beating us on tactics and this is easy,  Spurs did it first by pressing Jorginho.  When Jorginho is pressed - he simply passes sideways to kante or back to Luiz, Rudiger or Kepa.  This results in his very high % pass stats - but unfortunately this leads to no dangerous position or attack for Chelsea.  In this zone - opponents are happy to fake a press on kante or Kovacic who in turn return the ball to Jorginho and this cycle repeats for 10 to 20 times, eventually we lose the ball and this is where sh*t hits the fan,  Opponents leave 3 fast players lingering around the middle of the pitch and when we lose the ball, these guys sprint thrugh Jorginho who offers very little in both tactical defence to stop the counter attack early and also lacks pace to catch up with these guys.  We are on the back foot at this phase and normally its 3 v 3 or 3v 2 situations.  We are in trouble at this stage cause Luiz is a good tactical defender but not a good 1 on 1 defender and loses these battles more than he wins them.  The opponents may score or miss but they are happy to have this cycle go on for the 90 mins resulting in a win or draw for them.  Spurs, Bournemouth Leicester and Wolves have implemented this tactic with Bournemouth confirming they actually targeted Jorginho as the weakest link.  

What we can do

Since Jorginho has contributed sparingly(and i am being polite here - given he has 0 assists) to our attacks, he really should not be starting as our CDM especially against teams that press and target him.  I think against bigger teams he is okay cause they they try to overpower us and its blow for blow, but against these minnows - we need Kante in CDM.  These teams are happy to sit back and be compact so the best way to break them is to have good ball players in our midfield and have options of mids who actually get into the box more often and can dribble.   Playing Loftus Cheek is a no brainer given his desire to take on players, shrug off the early 'fake' press and score.  I would also consider putting Willian as the 3rd cental player.  I know Willian frustrates as a winger cause his end product is mostly bad but he has good ball control and can beat this press on both skill and pace.  Kovacic looks good but for me he has no threat in the box and shooting wise he is really bad! This creates a a very dynamic mid for us with good ball players and a solid CDM who can tactically stop counters and as make up with pace against counters. 

The forward 3 should be Hazard Giroud/Higuain and Pedro/Odoi.  I dont care which of those start cause to me they offer the same and will create and score equal goals in my opinion.    This is my tactical assessment and again - i am no expert and could be wrong but i think a manager should be trying something different as opposed to talking about mental preparation and lack of motivation.  

I think we've all come to the conclusion that, despite how 'key' Jorginho is to Sarri's preferred style of football (whatever that is), not conceding silly goals is more important right now, and that can be nullified by Kante.

That said, Sarri would need to swallow some pride in order to do that. Something I just can't see happening.

I saw most of the first half but was having a nightmare trying to find a good stream so gave up watching at half time, assuming the second half would just be more of the same. I checked in again towards the end of the match and couldn't believe my eyes, already 3-0, and then they went and scored another. I still haven't plucked up the courage to watch the highlights.

Naturally I'm taking the hyperbole directed on here towards specific players with a pinch of salt but clearly something went very wrong last night. Sarri's claim that the players are hard to motivate seems believable to me, since they've shown they can beat much better teams than Bournemouth when they feel like it. My fear is that our managerial merry-go-round has undermined the manager's authority at the club, with the players now feeling that managers here are disposable. That's pure speculation on my part but it makes sense to me and is consistent with what happened in the end with Mourinho and Conte. With this in mind I hope the club is not considering another another managerial change and gives Sarri the full support and time required to turn this around.

I look forward to seeing how we respond to this embarrassing defeat against Huddersfield. I thought the signing of a proper CF and moving Hazard back to LW would give us a lift (experts on here were certain that was our problem) but it doesn't seem to have helped so far.

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

That's an awful comment imo, even though it's probably taken out of context a bit... Don't say things like that. 

Do not be a defeatist, we can still do something, the club should support Sarri but it won't help the cause if he looks like a broken man. 

I agree...the club should support the manager and sell the dead woods we have 

12 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I’m firmly with Sarri on this one. The players can f*ck off, I hope we salvage top 4 somehow and then have a huge clear out this summer, start afresh.

I really agree with you 10000%

 

I have to come clean, this is all my fault.  There have been two matches this season on a Wednesday night when I have had the choice of going out dancing, or watching us play away at some dross or other. 

Both times I chose dancing, and both times I caused the sky to fall in and we lost, last night and Wolves away.

I promise I will never, ever make that choice again, so let's all stop  panicking, shall we?

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I have to come clean, this is all my fault.  There have been two matches this season on a Wednesday night when I have had the choice of going out dancing, or watching us play away at some dross or other. 

Both times I chose dancing, and both times I caused the sky to fall in and we lost, last night and Wolves away.

I promise I will never, ever make that choice again, so let's all stop  panicking, shall we?

Is that the same dance you did on a table at the Mitre when we last had a piss-up? Then it's all making sense now.... 

The very same, but not in the man-kini this time.  Too f**king cold for that at the moment.

I'm still pretty pissed at last nights performance. If it was a one off, I would brush it off and move on, but I just know that with this group we will probably react and then go back to putting in a few awful performances. 

A managerial change won't sort the problems we have at the club. It just feels like we have been on repeat for the last 4 seasons with one season in between when it looked like the squad seemed interested. We lose form and never seem to recover. It's never a blip with this group.

Was hoping it was all just a dream but sadly it was reality. What an utterly disgraceful appearance. 

Try it for over 50  seasons @Scott Harris.  We've all been a bit spoilt by success and expectations, and we seem to have lost sight of the fact that football, as most things, is cyclical, sh*t comes around, it goes around.  We were great, top of the world, now, not so much. It''s all a bit pants at the moment, but at least we have won a championship in the era of colour televison, not like the Spuds, we've won the Premiership, not like the Dippers, we've won the Champions League, not like the Arse, and we are no longer the most racist team in London, not like the 'Wall.

It will get better.  Or it won't.  Either way, it will be what it will be.

Try telling Notts Forest or Villa or Sunderland fans how sh*t it is being consistently in the top few of the premier league and playing in Europe every year.

Seriously, though, if you know any Leeds fans, remind then that they are dogsh*te and deserve to be in the second division and be sure to tell them that we are having a laugh.

40 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I have to come clean, this is all my fault.  There have been two matches this season on a Wednesday night when I have had the choice of going out dancing, or watching us play away at some dross or other. 

Both times I chose dancing, and both times I caused the sky to fall in and we lost, last night and Wolves away.

I promise I will never, ever make that choice again, so let's all stop  panicking, shall we?

At least I hope the dancing is improving !

It is indeed, thank you kindly.