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Sarri - In or Out?


coco
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

Sarri - In or Out?  

184 members have voted

  1. 1. Sarri - In or Out?

    • In
      120
    • Out
      64


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11 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

What total tosh. I’m no Liverpool lover but possibly second highest prem’ points tally ever, but because they’re no silverware to show for it, it’s not worth a ...,

Is this really what’s footballs come to?

 

Football, like any other professional sport, is, and always has been, about winning trophies.

Edited by abramovich
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If Liverpool finish second but also go on to win the CL, it will have been one heck of a good season for Klopp and his team.

Let's just hope it doesn't happen!

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6 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Football, like any other professional sport, is, and always has been, about winning trophies.

Really. So the 41,00 who turned up to watch Sunderland st the weekend, with no chance of winning a trophy in the old 3rd Divosion, are they a load of mugs of maybe just football fans?

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21 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I'm sure Liverpool fans will get the champagne out, celebrate and remember in 10 years time what a great season it was, much better than winning a trophy.

They wouldn't do that if they just won the league cup. Stop overinflating the point. Winning 30 league games in a season and coming second is better in my opinion than winning a cup competition they don't even have in most countries. 

It would always be remembered for longer by the fans. It will be the heartbreak season, but gallant losers, not bottlers. We celebrate defeat when it's just, when we know we've done everything. A 90 point season would be talked about for years "we were so unlucky" "what if this had happened" "any other year!" 

I never talk about a league cup win, the only one we do ever is the first Jose trophy because people say that kickstarted us. Which just shows how it's not a proper trophy. 

Edited by bisright1
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Just now, Ernie_blue said:

They certainly wouldn't do it for being a runner up.

But they would talk about it. It's never happened to an English club before. Whoever comes second this year will be gutted, but it won't be the same type of disappointment as the Gerrard slip or the Keegan "I'd love it" season. It will be different and I imagine every fan will be proud of their team. 

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17 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

They wouldn't do that if they just won the league cup. Stop overinflating the point. Winning 30 league games in a season and coming second is better in my opinion than winning a cup competition they don't even have in most countries. 

It would always be remembered for longer by the fans. It will be the heartbreak season, but gallant losers, not bottlers. We celebrate defeat when it's just, when we know we've done everything. A 90 point season would be talked about for years "we were so unlucky" "what if this had happened" "any other year!" 

I never talk about a league cup win, the only one we do ever is the first Jose trophy because people say that kickstarted us. Which just shows how it's not a proper trophy. 

You really reach far to defend Sarri in anyway possible, its pointless.

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41 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Football, like any other professional sport, is, and always has been, about winning trophies.

To a point.,

I can't be bothered to go into the naunces so I'll keep it brief, if we win Europa would you say you enjoyed this season more than say, 07/08?

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1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

Maurizio Sarri, as much as I love the aesthetic, does not add any value to our performances (and may well detract from them) as manager of Chelsea Football Club.

And this is essentially what I keep thinking about Sarri. What is he bringing to the club that makes us better than we were as a team previously? 

On numerous occasions this season other managers have got the upper hand over him and on some occasions we’re winning because of some individual brilliance from one of our players (often Hazard) which is masking Sarri’s tactical shortfalls.

Personally I don’t think Sarri gets the best out of the team and isn’t playing to the majority of the players’ individual strengths. If anything some players are being exposed because of the system.

A big frustration for me is how little Sarri influence a result during a game. Second half today RLC was just about to come on, Rudiger goes off with an injury with Christensen replacing him so Sarri then delays the RLC sub for over ten minutes... why? It makes it feel like the subs are premeditated rather than a reaction to what is happening on the pitch.

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19 minutes ago, Argo said:

To a point.,

I can't be bothered to go into the naunces so I'll keep it brief, if we win Europa would you say you enjoyed this season more than say, 07/08?

It’s not about enjoyment, as others have said. The point was what will be remembered. I certainly remember winning the Europa in 2013 over coming 2nd in 07/08. So, winning the Europa would also be more memorable than the 07/08 season in my opinion. Although, in terms of enjoyment. 07/08 would win, not so much the heartbreak at the end of it.

Edited by EdinburghBlue
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I think if the likes of Jurgen Klopp, Mauricio Pochettino or Pep Guardiola were available, I could be persuaded for Sarri to leave. 

However, something I've been very critical of the Sarriout crowd has been, who would replace Sarri? In fact, the last time I saw this mentioned on this thread the only response was "that's all your Sarriin fans say! If he's not the right man, he's not the right man." Which is a fair point I suppose. But to use a comparison, Antonio Conte sold Diego Costa because he wanted to upgrade on him and sign Alvaro Morata. Now, at the time, most of us weren't too against this move. What we were against was Costa's lacklustre attitude and Conte's handling of the situation. Costa had a tendency to perform exceptionally well for half of the season (first half 14/15 and 16/17, second half 15/16) and be very poor in the other half of the season. In hindsight, we can all see that Antonio Conte made the wrong decision. Despite Costa having significant flaws to his game, he would have proved to be a better option than all 3 of our possible replacements; Andrea Belotti, Romelu Lukaku and Alvaro Morata, so despite Costa arguably not being the right man for the job, as Conte perceived, that didn't mean we shouldn't keep him. And the exact same is true with Sarri, Sarri is better than all of the alternatives, with the majority being put forward very inexperienced managers who wouldn't be able to handle such a squad of personalities that we clearly have. 

So, I thought I would go through the 10 managers with the best odds of joining Chelsea:

1. Frank Lampard (Derby County): Very inexperienced and would only be being hired for sentiment as he was a player. Not a good idea and hasn't done exceptionally well at Derby, although you could argue they've slightly improved this season.

2. Nuno Santo (Wolves): An interesting shout. But my issue with Wolves is; yes their record against the top 6 this season is exceptional for a team not in the top 6. However, the style of football they play against the top 6 is very very negative, playing very much on the counterattack. And when they actually try to play football and try to win games they do very poorly, which is why I would not have him. It would mean to be successful we'd have to play such a negative style of football every single week, and having watched that for almost a decade, I'm sick of it. You could also argue he's quite inexperienced, and should be given a couple more years to see how he performs. Another point to make is has he actually done that well (excluding their record against the top 6), they have a lot of extremely talented, young players who have signed for Wolves due to their relation to agent Jorge Mendes. Could also argue why would he want to join, as he seems very happy at Wolves.

3. Steve Holland (England Assistant Manager): Almost no purely managerial experience. Has only been a manager once, for a season at Crewe in 2007. 

4. Diego Simeone(Atletico Madrid): He would need a lot of time. In addition, Atletico play some of the most unattractive, boring, `tactical' football. He's a good manager, but I think with our players he wouldn't be suited to us whatsoever, and would make this season of attempting to play attractive football redundant, as we'd have to start all over again, increasing the distance between us and our rivals more.

5. Laurent Blanc(Unemployed; most recent job PSG 2015/16): Have never rated him as a manager whatsoever, which is seemingly why no clubs have hired him for years.

6. Gianfranco Zola(Chelsea Assistant Manager): A poor manager as his record shows, and seems to have a very similar mindset to Sarri so would likely see very little change in the objectives of our football, it would just be being implemented more poorly.

7. Massimiliano Allegri (Juventus): A lot of the same issues shared with Simeone, however, I think he is very Conte-esque. That's all I should need to say.

8. Didier Deschamps (France): Again I think he's a very poor manager, who's been blessed with an phenomenal France squad, football very unattractive.

9. Thomas Tuchel (PSG): A manager I would actually take, however, I'm unsure if he'd want to join. 

10. Jose Mourinho (Unemployed; most recent job Manchester United 2018/19): Mourinho in my mind, unless a miracle happens, tactically is finished. He was awful at Manchester United and led us to an awful campaign only 3 seasons ago, not what this club needs. 

 

The only other manager I'd take would be Leonardo Jardim, however, he's only recently rejoined Monaco and they were very poor this season, although you could argue that that's largely down to selling too many players. 

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1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And this is essentially what I keep thinking about Sarri. What is he bringing to the club that makes us better than we were as a team previously? 

On numerous occasions this season other managers have got the upper hand over him and on some occasions we’re winning because of some individual brilliance from one of our players (often Hazard) which is masking Sarri’s tactical shortfalls.

Personally I don’t think Sarri gets the best out of the team and isn’t playing to the majority of the players’ individual strengths. If anything some players are being exposed because of the system.

A big frustration for me is how little Sarri influence a result during a game. Second half today RLC was just about to come on, Rudiger goes off with an injury with Christensen replacing him so Sarri then delays the RLC sub for over ten minutes... why? It makes it feel like the subs are premeditated rather than a reaction to what is happening on the pitch.

To be fair to Sarri, I believe Luiz was hobbling due to a hard tackle I think by that turd Herrera, and so Sarri waited a while to sub in RLC to see if Luis could continue 

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4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And this is essentially what I keep thinking about Sarri. What is he bringing to the club that makes us better than we were as a team previously? 

On numerous occasions this season other managers have got the upper hand over him and on some occasions we’re winning because of some individual brilliance from one of our players (often Hazard) which is masking Sarri’s tactical shortfalls.

Personally I don’t think Sarri gets the best out of the team and isn’t playing to the majority of the players’ individual strengths. If anything some players are being exposed because of the system.

A big frustration for me is how little Sarri influence a result during a game. Second half today RLC was just about to come on, Rudiger goes off with an injury with Christensen replacing him so Sarri then delays the RLC sub for over ten minutes... why? It makes it feel like the subs are premeditated rather than a reaction to what is happening on the pitch.

I think this is the difference, some teams/managers try to dictate the game and some react to the game.  Sarri's plan is to dictate the game, we did well with Mourinho who reacted to it.  I personally think Chelsea is a big enough club now to dictate, but there are growing pains with it.  I also think his players have improved with him.

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5 hours ago, abramovich said:

Football, like any other professional sport, is, and always has been, about winning trophies.

I think Hazard sums it up well, the goal of big clubs, trophies are great, but to attract great players to get them, first you've got to get yourself in the CL:

"Chelsea has to play in the Champions League every year," the Belgium international signalled to Sky Sports after the final whistle."It's one of biggest clubs in the world, and for myself also I want to play in the Champions League, and we will."

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7 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It’s not about enjoyment, as others have said. The point was what will be remembered. I certainly remember winning the Europa in 2013 over coming 2nd in 07/08. So, winning the Europa would also be more memorable than the 07/08 season in my opinion. Although, in terms of enjoyment. 07/08 would win, not so much the heartbreak at the end of it.

It may have translated to what will be remembered but the topic started with what would be the better achievement until someone changed the goalposts.

The heartbreak was awful, but the point was that year we were everything we wish to be now, challenging at the top table home and abroad. I would rather relive a season like that as opposed to this one or a 12/13 even if we end up with Europa again.

Which is why sometimes context is needed on trophy's, it shouldn't literally be the only thing that defines a season or someone's career. Sarri and Pochettino have won nothing yet while O Neil and McLeish are technically well decorated managers.

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I don't think Sarri's done particularly bad or well. We have a great squad but then again it lacks key talent. If we somehow do well in the summer (transfer ban is upon us) and Sarri gets more of a squad for his needs we need to finish much closer to Pool and City next term. If he fails to do so sack him. I don't think he deserves a sack end of this term. 

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9 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

Really. So the 41,00 who turned up to watch Sunderland st the weekend, with no chance of winning a trophy in the old 3rd Divosion, are they a load of mugs of maybe just football fans?

I'm sure these type of manipulations work wonders on a bunch of ten year olds.

No, they're not mugs, but I bet if you ask each and every one of them what their biggest dream as a fan is, they'd want their club to win something big. It's natural for any supporter to want his team to do as well as possible.

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9 hours ago, Argo said:

To a point.,

I can't be bothered to go into the naunces so I'll keep it brief, if we win Europa would you say you enjoyed this season more than say, 07/08?

Any season with a trophy is better than the one without. Plus, EL win gives us a CL spot, so I'd call it a decent season. Not great, but given our problems and squad defficiencies, it would be an acceptable result. In fact, even finishing in the top four without trophies would be OK for this season.

It wouldn't change my view of Sarri and him being the wrong fit at Chelsea though, but I'd certainly agree that he would have earned a chance to keep his job.

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4 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

I think Hazard sums it up well, the goal of big clubs, trophies are great, but to attract great players to get them, first you've got to get yourself in the CL:

"Chelsea has to play in the Champions League every year," the Belgium international signalled to Sky Sports after the final whistle."It's one of biggest clubs in the world, and for myself also I want to play in the Champions League, and we will."

I don't see how it contradicts anything I've said. Of course, as a top club, we have to compete in the CL every season, that goes without saying.

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1 hour ago, Argo said:

Which is why sometimes context is needed on trophy's, it shouldn't literally be the only thing that defines a season or someone's career. Sarri and Pochettino have won nothing yet while O Neil and McLeish are technically well decorated managers.

While I get where you’re coming from, I think similarly to your examples, context is needed... there is only ever two clubs in Scottish football that win the league title & most of the cups. Celtic and Rangers. O’Neil and McLeish managed both of those clubs respectively - they are well decorated with no real competition outside of each other. Particularly with rangers paying EBT’s to make the financial gap between themselves and the rest of the league astronomical. 

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50 minutes ago, abramovich said:

I'm sure these type of manipulations work wonders on a bunch of ten year olds.

No, they're not mugs, but I bet if you ask each and every one of them what their biggest dream as a fan is, they'd want their club to win something big. It's natural for any supporter to want his team to do as well as possible.

I don’t see winning trophy’s as being a healthy raison detre for following a football club, nor do I see silverware as all defining.

I have admiration for fans who support their teams despite having bare trophy cabinets; the expectations of some Chelsea is higher because we have been successful, but the downside is we now have a significant number of spoilt w....r supporters, who I suspect see every title and Cup won as some sort of personal victory.

A bit of humility wouldn’t go amiss.

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10 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

A big frustration for me is how little Sarri influence a result during a game. Second half today RLC was just about to come on, Rudiger goes off with an injury with Christensen replacing him so Sarri then delays the RLC sub for over ten minutes... why? It makes it feel like the subs are premeditated rather than a reaction to what is happening on the pitch.

You would do that as you have just changed a centre half... you would ensure that you maintain the defensive control and allow Christensen to get up to game speed while providing a bit of extra defensive cover with Kova... to make 2 subs at that point would potentially expose the defense with 2 players getting up to speed,.. there was plenty of time left in the game at that point to delay RLC coming on. 

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9 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

You would do that as you have just changed a centre half... you would ensure that you maintain the defensive control and allow Christensen to get up to game speed while providing a bit of extra defensive cover with Kova... to make 2 subs at that point would potentially expose the defense with 2 players getting up to speed,.. there was plenty of time left in the game at that point to delay RLC coming on. 

Half the reason Kovacic was going to be subbed was because he was on a yellow card and had made a pretty clumsy challenge that could have seen him receive a second yellow and been sent off. 

Leaving him on the pitch to provide defensive cover was a massive risk when he's potentially one foul away from getting sent off. There's no reason two players in different positions can't be subbed on at the same time, especially when there's solid reason for bringing both of them on (injury and avoiding red card). 

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2 hours ago, evissy said:

I don't think Sarri's done particularly bad or well. We have a great squad but then again it lacks key talent. If we somehow do well in the summer (transfer ban is upon us) and Sarri gets more of a squad for his needs we need to finish much closer to Pool and City next term. If he fails to do so sack him. I don't think he deserves a sack end of this term. 

If we had a better squad I would probably be in the Sarri out camp but we don't, our squad is only good enough for 4th.

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