3 minutes ago, evissy said:

Tuchel was clearly one of the best managers around. Clearly. His past 3 seasons spoke highly of his skills. 2 CL finals and so on....but he couldn't get along with the clubs owners. They decided to kick him out. 

If you are Boehly you look at the best solution for your investment. Not only did Todd kick out TT out without hesitation he decided to trust Potter with a massive 5 year deal. 

Either Boehly is an idiot or he knows something we don't know. 

Would love to know what went on behind the scenes. Talk sport (well - Simon Jordan) have said with some regularity that if the fans than pine for TT knew what actually went on, then maybe we would be thinking differently.

He had a lot of personal stuff going on (Divorce, replaced by new younger Girlfriend) and his public persona and behavior had changed significantly. Given he was so brittle and combustible in public, then I imagine this is even more amplified when the cameras are away.

All guess work and hearsay of course - but if I was a betting man, then I would be loading up on something significant happening behind the scenes that we dont know about.

10 minutes ago, evissy said:

Tuchel was clearly one of the best managers around. Clearly. His past 3 seasons spoke highly of his skills. 2 CL finals and so on....but he couldn't get along with the clubs owners. They decided to kick him out. 

If you are Boehly you look at the best solution for your investment. Not only did Todd kick out TT out without hesitation he decided to trust Potter with a massive 5 year deal. 

Either Boehly is an idiot or he knows something we don't know. 

Think it's pretty clear Boehly is an idiot.  Even if you want to Pretend Potter did a particularly good job at Brighton or you want to imagine he really is a promising young manager despite him being 47 and absolutely nothing in his career suggesting he could be a top manager 

Giving him a 5 year £12m a season contract is beyond stupid, it's a ridiculous contract offer to someone with Potters resume honestly one of the most mind-boggling contracts in sport.

23 minutes ago, TimesUpPotter said:

Think it's pretty clear Boehly is an idiot.  Even if you want to Pretend Potter did a particularly good job at Brighton or you want to imagine he really is a promising young manager despite him being 47 and absolutely nothing in his career suggesting he could be a top manager 

Giving him a 5 year £12m a season contract is beyond stupid, it's a ridiculous contract offer to someone with Potters resume honestly one of the most mind-boggling contracts in sport.

1. Potter clearly did do a good job at Brighton 

2. Up and coming manager, not young. SAF was 45 when he took over at united. Wenger was 47 at arsenal. It's all relative. 

3. I don't trust anything I read when it comes to money around our club. For all we know, Potters wages drop significantly if we aren't in the CL. 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Good question. Why don't you ask Tuchel? He thought we needed it too 

He actually didn't think that after winning the CL, he thought he could afford to splash the cash on a luxury signing like Lukaku, which was a mistake but that's another topic but part from that Tuchel just took Saul on loan so there was no indication that he thought that his CL winning squad needed a big overhaul at all.

If you want to argue that he believed that we needed an overhaul this season though, I can argue that such a reaction was normal considering that we lost Alonso, Emerson, Rudiger, Christensen, Werner and when it was clear that Lukaku isn't coming back. And the owners did understand that we needed replacements for most of those, we tried to sign Raphinha and Kounde and we did get Sterling, Koulibaly, Cucurella and Aubameyang.

52 minutes ago, evissy said:

Tuchel was clearly one of the best managers around. Clearly. His past 3 seasons spoke highly of his skills. 2 CL finals and so on....but he couldn't get along with the clubs owners. They decided to kick him out. 

If you are Boehly you look at the best solution for your investment. Not only did Todd kick out TT out without hesitation he decided to trust Potter with a massive 5 year deal. 

Either Boehly is an idiot or he knows something we don't know. 

Or maybe he believes that if he keeps spending that something will come out of it regardless of the manager so why not take this nice guy...

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

1. Potter clearly did do a good job at Brighton 

2. Up and coming manager, not young. SAF was 45 when he took over at united. Wenger was 47 at arsenal. It's all relative. 

3. I don't trust anything I read when it comes to money around our club. For all we know, Potters wages drop significantly if we aren't in the CL. 

1. I think he was doing a decent job but he wasn't exactly tearing it up. As an English manager he was probably in the higher bracket but I could probably name 5 or 6 others that had or have done equally well but we wouldn't necessarily want them here. Take Nuno from Wolves for example.

2. Bit of a difference here. SAF when joining Man Utd was already a European Cup winner with Aberdeen.  Wenger by the time he reached Arsenal had helped to revolutionise French football which they still reap the benefits of today. Glenn Hoddle said he was on a different level to anybody else when he joined Wenger at Monaco.

3. I do hope you're right here. Surely there must have been some form of risk assessment done and a contract clause on salaries to cater for under achievement as well as achieving all objectives.

Edited February 13, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

1. I think he was doing a decent job but he wasn't exactly tearing it up. As an English manager he was probably in the higher bracket but I could probably name 5 or 6 others that had or have done equally well but we wouldn't necessarily want them here. Take Nuno from Wolves for example.

Basically hit the nail on the head. 

Edited February 13, 20233 yr by abister1

15 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

1. I think he was doing a decent job but he wasn't exactly tearing it up. As an English manager he was probably in the higher bracket but I could probably name 5 or 6 others that had or have done equally well but we wouldn't necessarily want them here. Take Nuno from Wolves for example.

Great point. I think we were desperately hoping he was Pochettino at Southampton and could step up.

Frankly I'd say it's easy enough to finish top 10 in the PL. Very different to being expected to win every week and challenge for honours.

To step forward with the very best players from that level you have to be almost revolutionary in your approach to training or tactics. There's no suggestion he is anywhere near that. 

The debate on all of this is moot. He is getting sacked at some stage if it continues the way it is. The only reason he hasn't gone already is because it would involve admitting a mistake was made in hiring him in the first place.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Would love to know what went on behind the scenes. Talk sport (well - Simon Jordan) have said with some regularity that if the fans than pine for TT knew what actually went on, then maybe we would be thinking differently.

He had a lot of personal stuff going on (Divorce, replaced by new younger Girlfriend) and his public persona and behavior had changed significantly. Given he was so brittle and combustible in public, then I imagine this is even more amplified when the cameras are away.

All guess work and hearsay of course - but if I was a betting man, then I would be loading up on something significant happening behind the scenes that we dont know about.

Definietely reminds me of the Mourinho 1 sacking, most likely an argument behind the scenes. Tuchel probably tried to tell Boehly 4-4-3 wasn't a real formation and Todd wasn't having any of it.

As I see it, Boehly wanted a Yes man, Tuchel wasn't one, so he found the next available Yes man. Give Potter a 5 years deal because he could afford it, maybe there's a clause there somewhere allows early termination, just need to talk to Boehly's lawyer

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Coaching an 18 month old baby.....that is some going!

Bet most were more athletic that Jorginho and Azpi are these days!

Mate they're so temperamental, but you would be surprised at how good they are in terms of the very basics. Sometimes I do think parents are too obsessed with turning their kids into stars. They think their kids need a ball at their feet as soon as they're walking. Ofc we're not going to turn down their money 😂

6 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Mate they're so temperamental, but you would be surprised at how good they are in terms of the very basics. Sometimes I do think parents are too obsessed with turning their kids into stars. They think their kids need a ball at their feet as soon as they're walking. Ofc we're not going to turn down their money 😂

Sounds like our own Gol who is also so temperamental....

....although on second thoughts, Gol struggles at the basics, so the comparison only goes so far.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Sounds like our own Gol who is also so temperamental....

....although on second thoughts, Gol struggles at the basics, so the comparison only goes so far.

Was that post really necessary ?

This constant goading of certain posters on here is getting really tiresome. Tantamount to bullying in my book.

 

Another question. Can we identify any established  player that has improved this season? Of course the Lewis Halls are the better for experience. 

Edited February 14, 20233 yr by ozboy

1 minute ago, ozboy said:

Another question. Can we identify any established  player that has improved this season? Of course the Lewis Halls are the better for experience. 

How the hell is anyone going to improve when they spend half the season in the doctors office. 

Havertz has stayed the same. Ziyech is probably better than last year. Mount is worse. Silva is always perfect. Kepa is better.

Can't really review anyone else.

10 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

As I see it, Boehly wanted a Yes man, Tuchel wasn't one, so he found the next available Yes man. Give Potter a 5 years deal because he could afford it, maybe there's a clause there somewhere allows early termination, just need to talk to Boehly's lawyer

I think it was pretty much the exact opposite of what Boehyl wanted, he wants a manger who is involved in the clubs running from top to bottom, transfers, youth teams, all aspects of training, structure and decisions. it seems Tuchel didnt want to any of that, just wanted to concentrate on coaching the first team. Thats why he was sacked, well that and 6 months of abysmal football with no signs of it getting any better soon, and also hus shockingly bad transfer dealings. 

11 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

How the hell is anyone going to improve when they spend half the season in the doctors office. 

Havertz has stayed the same. Ziyech is probably better than last year. Mount is worse. Silva is always perfect. Kepa is better.

Can't really review anyone else.

I'd agree with that.

The disappointing thing season to date is the lack of impact of the "experienced" summer signings ... Sterling, Koulibaly, Cucurella and Aubameyang, all of whom are performing far worse than they were at their previous club (Barcelona for Aubameyang, before anyone starts banging their Arsenal drum LOL). There could be lots of factors for that, It's not 100% on Potter (or Tuchel LOL).

14 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

1. I think he was doing a decent job but he wasn't exactly tearing it up. As an English manager he was probably in the higher bracket but I could probably name 5 or 6 others that had or have done equally well but we wouldn't necessarily want them here. Take Nuno from Wolves for example.

 

I said it before a few months back on here, Alan Pardew finished 5th with Newcastle after just being promoted, he had them chasing top 4 all season. Steve Bruce finished top 10 with Sunderland one season, Allerdyce twice with West Ham. Pulis is Welsh but I would say his Stoke team was better than Potters Brighton likewise with Mark Hughes's Fulham.

Potter has had massive media hype for a top-half finish when there have been other English managers that have done the same and done even better with smaller resources. 

Edited February 14, 20233 yr by Victor90

4 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I said it before a few months back on here, Alan Pardew finished 5th with Newcastle after just being promoted, he had them chasing top 4 all season. Steve Bruce finished top 10 with Sunderland one season, Allerdyce twice with West Ham. Pulis is Welsh but I would say his Stoke team was better than Potters Brighton likewise with Mark Hughes's Fulham.

Potter has had massive media hype for a top-half finish when there have been other English managers that have done the same and done even better with smaller resources. 

Difference was Potter was actually playing attractive football at the same time with an emphasis on dominating games, not sitting back and sh*thousing a 1-0 like Pulis' Stoke. 

We want to win but we want to win in style too. Obviously it hasn't come to fruition yet but there's a reason Potter was linked to the City job once Pep leaves. 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Difference was Potter was actually playing attractive football at the same time with an emphasis on dominating games, not sitting back and sh*thousing a 1-0 like Pulis' Stoke. 

We want to win but we want to win in style too. Obviously it hasn't come to fruition yet but there's a reason Potter was linked to the City job once Pep leaves. 

I don't know, I wouldn't call Pulis's stoke sh*thouses, they were a very rough team who were extremely hard to beat. 

Was Potter actually linked? Or was that just the media hype surrounding Potter? Brighton's goal record under Potter has always been a big question mark, the one thing this team is severely lacking is goals. We've also had a problem with finishing our chances, this has been a recurring problem since Lampard and I can't quite put my finger on why we are so bad at it. And unfortunately, this was happening under Potter at Brighton. 

25 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I said it before a few months back on here, Alan Pardew finished 5th with Newcastle after just being promoted, he had them chasing top 4 all season. Steve Bruce finished top 10 with Sunderland one season, Allerdyce twice with West Ham. Pulis is Welsh but I would say his Stoke team was better than Potters Brighton likewise with Mark Hughes's Fulham.

Potter has had massive media hype for a top-half finish when there have been other English managers that have done the same and done even better with smaller resources. 

Sometimes delving deeper than the top line is needed, results wise it would appear Bruce did as well for Newcastle as Benitez did but when all the context is applied he did nowhere near.

A large part of his hype came because he's gone to big grounds on multiple occasions and had the home team tripping over themselves.

While most of the managers you mention are decent in their own right the football they play is unsustainable and eventually they all left because it was coming home to roost. Potter when he left Brighton it was the total opposite.

Maybe a more positive comparison with Potter would be Eddie Howe instead of Mikel Arteta. Arteta-comparison doesn't hold water in terms of years in management. This is Arteta's first big gig. 

Eddie Howe has a similar background to Potter. Worked with smaller sides but at a high level. Has impressed most of his career. Now at Newcastle with better players doing an excellent job. If Arsenal bottles the title and Newcastle stays top 4 he should be manager of the year. 

He got his chance in a bigger team and he has delivered. Their overhaul has been much smaller than ours. Externally the expectations to that club and team is never as high as Chelsea's. 

We have been in a massive turbulence with new owners, new players and staff+ unprecedented amount of serious injuries. 

Potter looks very calm and it seems the board trusts him. We can't see what happens at Cobham on a day to day basis. Even small improvements here and there will suffice and at some point it will all show on the pitch. If it doesn't Potter needs to up his game so to say. At some point in a distant future his position would be under scrutiny.

To use one player as an example in terms of short and long time planning....in my mind at least 

Conor Gallagher under Tuchel:

We don't have a spot for him in my rigid system. I can't slot him in as a 10 nor as a 6. Mason is better as an 8 if I would use 8's. Wait for injuries and maybe give him some minutes in a cup game. Use as a bargaining chip in summer.

Connor Gallagher under Potter:

Ask which is his best position, what works for him as a player, what motivates him, what is his dream. Discuss and get to know on a personal level. Promise a spot in midfield if he meets hard demands to work and improve. Mould team around his skills as midfield is key in football. No rigid plans or styles. Play with strengths and courage. Give time and let him make mistakes, he is young.

If you compare Potter to Gallagher in this scenario wouldn't it be consistent to give Potter all that if he demands it from his players? Chance to make mistakes and learn. 

If you further compare the 2 both have shown to be at the very top of their professions all their short careers. Why would you so heavily bet against it now, after few months and some bad results/performances?

Is the very peak of football such a turbulent place where people lose their cool so quickly (Roman) or do we need to trust to build something more sustainable so we don't go up and down every other season and change managers and personnel by a pulse...? For me City and Liverpool have something sustainable. We have never had it. 

 

 

 

The revisionist history around Potter's job at Brighton by some in here is so laughable it doesn't warrant individual replies.

11 minutes ago, evissy said:

Maybe a more positive comparison with Potter would be Eddie Howe instead of Mikel Arteta. Arteta-comparison doesn't hold water in terms of years in management. This is Arteta's first big gig. 

Eddie Howe has a similar background to Potter. Worked with smaller sides but at a high level. Has impressed most of his career. Now at Newcastle with better players doing an excellent job. If Arsenal bottles the title and Newcastle stays top 4 he should be manager of the year. 

He got his chance in a bigger team and he has delivered. Their overhaul has been much smaller than ours. Externally the expectations to that club and team is never as high as Chelsea's. 

We have been in a massive turbulence with new owners, new players and staff+ unprecedented amount of serious injuries. 

Potter looks very calm and it seems the board trusts him. We can't see what happens at Cobham on a day to day basis. Even small improvements here and there will suffice and at some point it will all show on the pitch. If it doesn't Potter needs to up his game so to say. At some point in a distant future his position would be under scrutiny.

To use one player as an example in terms of short and long time planning....in my mind at least 

Conor Gallagher under Tuchel:

We don't have a spot for him in my rigid system. I can't slot him in as a 10 nor as a 6. Mason is better as an 8 if I would use 8's. Wait for injuries and maybe give him some minutes in a cup game. Use as a bargaining chip in summer.

Connor Gallagher under Potter:

Ask which is his best position, what works for him as a player, what motivates him, what is his dream. Discuss and get to know on a personal level. Promise a spot in midfield if he meets hard demands to work and improve. Mould team around his skills as midfield is key in football. No rigid plans or styles. Play with strengths and courage. Give time and let him make mistakes, he is young.

If you compare Potter to Gallagher in this scenario wouldn't it be consistent to give Potter all that if he demands it from his players? Chance to make mistakes and learn. 

If you further compare the 2 both have shown to be at the very top of their professions all their short careers. Why would you so heavily bet against it now, after few months and some bad results/performances?

Is the very peak of football such a turbulent place where people lose their cool so quickly (Roman) or do we need to trust to build something more sustainable so we don't go up and down every other season and change managers and personnel by a pulse...? For me City and Liverpool have something sustainable. We have never had it. 

 

 

 

 

Eddie Howe didn't get a chance at a bigger team.  When Newcastle hired him they were bottom of the league having won 0 of them first 11  games last season before Howe came in they were certain for relegation

Newcastle are were they are because of their improvement under Eddie Howe which was pretty much instant he drastically improved them overnight without a single transfer and that improvement continued as he added players to the squad

He's the complete opposite to Potter who joined a well established top club and has seen results and performances deteriorate under his tenure.

If Howe had done nearly as poorly as Potter has here Newcastle would be in the championship now.

Edited February 14, 20233 yr by TimesUpPotter

26 minutes ago, TimesUpPotter said:

Eddie Howe didn't get a chance at a bigger team.  When Newcastle hired him they were bottom of the league having won 0 of them first 11  games last season before Howe came in they were certain for relegation

Newcastle are were they are because of their improvement under Eddie Howe which was pretty much instant he drastically improved them overnight without a single transfer and that improvement continued as he added players to the squad

He's the complete opposite to Potter who joined a well established top club and has seen results and performances deteriorate under his tenure.

If Howe had done nearly as poorly as Potter has here Newcastle would be in the championship now.

Don't think we deteriorated, we simply just carried on the form from Tuchel's tenure. We were ass before Potter came in.