Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread

[The Brit]

isn't it about time we start singing, when we're winning matches with Torres in the side, the chant normally reserved for when you have a player sent off: 'we've only got 10 men!'

Edited January 3, 2013 by The Brit

[bjd]

Torres seems to do well against soft defenders, as soon as a tough defender comes up against him he bottles it. He use to be a lion but now is just a pussy cat. He has no fight in him anymore.

 

Said this last night but ill repeat myself now.

 

If you were to give me a list of every central defender for every club in the Premier League and ask me to choose which player i would least like to see line up for Chelsea the answer would be Clint Hill. He is at best, a mid level Championship defender.

 

Last night Clint Hill utterley had Torres in his pocket.

 

Ive gone from frustration to apathy, even sympathy  but now my emotion is simple. Every time i see him pure i feel nothing but pure anger.

 

If Demba Ba doesnt start 3 of the next 5 games for us then there very clearly is a huge problem at our club and the fans will have to act vocally.

[shedpensioner]

The thing is no-ones defended his performance last night, all some people have said is that blaming him for the defeat is not right, he is one player in a team which under performed as a whole.

 

To compare the chance that Torres had that was (very) well saved to the chance that Lampard had, where he was ultimately offside is like comparing Chedder with Brie, yeah they're both cheeses, but thats about it, same with those respective chances! Torres chance is a pure instinct chance smash the ball hard towards goal, Lampards chance is a much more measured chance with the chance to direct the ball. For those of you saying 'it's like watching a Sunday footballer shooting' don't be so stupid take the anger out of your eyes and watch those chances again.

 

Now onto the bigger picture of Torres and Chelsea, I see some are saying in the Ba thread that he will want assurances he will get game time and where he will play etc, do you not think that Torres also asked for those assurances? Do none of you think that he discussed how the team would play to suit his strengths? I would argue that it is disengenius to expect that he didn't ask for those assurances and I would gamble big stakes that he was given such assurances, in fact I would expect that he he feels as let down by certain sections of the club as we the fans feel let down by him!

 

Torres during his successful period was a player who latched onto through balls, that was his stock in trade, I would suspect that when he was discussing coming here he asked who would be providing those chances for him, and I would also suspect that the club outlined just who would provide those chances and how the team would be set up for him, I mean they had just made him the most expensive signing in British football, why would thay not look to create a team to pander to his assests?

 

The thing that the board, and here is where I point the finger directly at Emelano (?), didn't look at is that Chelsea had a very good system in place at that time, which worked to the strengths of Didier Drogba and Frank Lampard, it was all about a strong centre forward and good running from midfield, not quick ball through the middle for a striker to run onto! My point is we bought a round peg, but we had a square hole.

 

I think we can all agree Torres first half season was a disastor, he looked like a fish out of water, he was used to playing one way, we were set up to play another way, is that Torres fault though?

 

Carlo was then sacked and the wonderful world of AVB followed, as a team I don't think anyone really had an idea what the plan was with the players we had, but during this period we started to see a different side to Torres a player who wasn't trying to just wait for a through ball, but a player who was looking to get involved in the build up play, a player who was trying to adapt his play to fit into his new club. Fortunately AVB was sacked and Robbie came in, rightly so at the time Robbie decided to go with a defensive setup and play with Drogba in the big games (those that mattered) and Torres was largely margenelised, however when he did come on, we saw a player who was working hard for the team, sacrificing himself for the team, his reward came in the Nou Camp when he scored that memorable goal that won the tie for us. (Yes I know we were going through on away goals, but his goal won the tie) We then had that glorious night in Munich and much as some of you would like to change history, he played his part in that as well!

 

When the dust had settled from Munich, Drogba decided that he wouldn't accept the one year contract offer from us but would take up a very lucrative offer from China, this finally made Torres the main man at Chelsea, we were all told that their was going to be a new style of play with fast flowing football replacing the slow powerfull style we had watched for the last eight years. We brought in some fantastic talent, Hazard, Oscar, Moses and Marin to complement the already outstanding Mata in the hope that we would not only get the best out of Torres but that if he didn't score they would.

 

The season started well for us and for Torres, he was at the heart of lots of good play, and his goals per game ratio was what it should be for a top premier league striker. He was working hard for the team and he really had put lots of work into adapting his game, the only fault with this as it turns out is that Torres is not a very good footballer, in terms of dribbling past players, his control is questionable in short it would appear that in terms of footballing skills he is a lower premier league player, when he was at his best for the dippers nobody noticed this, because he wasn't being asked to do it, he was being asked to run and shoot or run and head. In this new Chelsea team even with all that talent behind him, he still has to hold the ball up and bring others into play all the things he's no good at and basically all the things that Drogba excelled at.

 

After the bright start to the season for some reason and I don't know what that reason is, the wheels fell off, and he went through a barren spell, this culminated with from what I understand was a very dire performance at WBA, he was dropped for the next game, rightly or wrongly given the strike options at the time and the rest is history.

 

We then Brought in a fat interim waiter to steady the ship for the rest of the season, and I think this is where a lot of anger boiled over to Torres and some fans started to be spitefull towards him and lost a bit of perspective. Has Torres improved under the interim, not really, he had a couple of good games against average sides, but that is about it.

 

Do we all think it's time for him to move on, probably, but unlike some I bear him no malice, it's not his fault the fee was so high and it was up to the club to pay him what he asked for, they could have said no but they didn't they thought they were buying the best striker in the world at the time, not realising that he didn't fit into the team.

 

So to sum up, we bought a player that if we reflect was never going to be a success here, he might have been a success elsewhere just not here! But that is no reason to hate the man, he's probably as disapointed about how things have turned out as we are, in fact far from hate I actually feel sorry for him, he would have come here thinking this was the start of a dream, promises would have been made to him and he would have believed them, now for whatever reason it turned out not to be a dream but a nightmare, and one that I'm sure he wants to wake up from.

[TorresBlue9]

I find it painful that Torres cost 50 million and Van Persie cost less than half that and is firing United to the league title.

[bjd]

To compare the chance that Torres had that was (very) well saved to the chance that Lampard had, where he was ultimately offside is like comparing Chedder with Brie, yeah they're both cheeses, but thats about it, same with those respective chances! Torres chance is a pure instinct chance smash the ball hard towards goal, Lampards chance is a much more measured chance with the chance to direct the ball. For those of you saying 'it's like watching a Sunday footballer shooting' don't be so stupid take the anger out of your eyes and watch those chances again.

 

It was a woeful miss from Torres last night. You say it was well saved, but the keeper should not have been in a position to be making a save. Any striker worth his salt wouldve put the ball to the keepers right not giving him any chance at all.

 

It was a hit and hope, a smash - not for me an 'instinct chance'. No excuses for me. Like his chance at the end of the Corinthians game there shouldve only been one outcome.

 

Sadly I/we expect that now. I would rather that chance had fallen to any other player in the Chelsea team last night and i wouldve expected them to score. The only player perhaps id be dubious about is Azpilicueta and thats only because I havent seen enough of his shooting yet to make a judgement.

 

I wasnt surprised when Torres missed (i consider it a miss and not a save) and that for me is what we are dealing with now. Expecting your £50 million striker to miss with the goal gaping from 5 yards.

 

Its comical bordering on pathetic - and its gone on far too long.

Edited January 3, 2013 by bjd

[Nibs]

Sadly I/we expect that now. I would rather that chance had fallen to any other player in the Chelsea team last night and i wouldve expected them to score. The only player perhaps id be dubious about is Azpilicueta and thats only because I havent seen enough of his shooting yet to make a judgement.

 

Think I might add Moses to that as his finishing has looked iffy too. That one great bit of work Marin did last night - Moses should have put that in the back of the net, but his shooting hasn't looked great and last night confirmed for me that he is not good enough to start games on a regular basis.

 

That said, I would have kep him off and taken off Torres!!

[Amputechture]

Think I might add Moses to that as his finishing has looked iffy too. That one great bit of work Marin did last night - Moses should have put that in the back of the net, but his shooting hasn't looked great and last night confirmed for me that he is not good enough to start games on a regular basis.

 

If you can be bothered, watch the replay of that again and focus on Torres' movement when that happens. It is absolutely appalling! He is cancerous to our club and needs to get out.

[Blueblur]

I too, after watching last night's farce, have run out of patience with Torres.

 

I was willing to wait till Drogba left, wait til half way through this season, to see if he stepped up. He hasn't. He puts in minimal effort, has a diabolical touch (last night confirmed this for me) and falls over FAR, FAR, too often.

 

We need someone who scores goals on a regular basis (like Ba).

 

Torres OUT.

[Uno]

We have tried everything possible to get Torres scoring. First it was Flo Mo not passing to him, he was sent to the under 21's. Torres wasnt give then service, Mata, Hazard, Oscar all brought in. He is in Drogba's shadow, Drogba leaves. We even bring in his old manager, the one who brought im over to England and made him one of the most feared strikers in the world at the time.

None of this has worked so maybe just maybe it was Torres himself the whole time that was the problem. The sooner Roman realises and cuts his losses the better the club will be.

Mazacar are amazing and pretty much any striker could bang in the goals with their support its just we have the one who cant.

Torres has now become a problem and its a problem that needs to go away.

[coco]

It's been 7 months since we had a world class center forward in the team. Wev'e done well to stay in the top 4, if Ba can start banging them in, and we can hold on to third place, then sell Torres and change manager in May (or before), give the new manager a kitty to add to the already impressive squad.......Then and only then, will I start forgetting about Fernando and Benitez.

[shedpensioner]

What if Ba doesn't score goals, what then?

[Davey Baby]

What if Ba doesn't score goals, what then?

 

Sell Torres.

[bjd]

Apparentley without Suarez, Liverpool would be 16th, not 8th. Without RvP, Man Utd would be 11th, not 1st. Without Torres, Chelsea would still be 4th.

 

Im aware its a little subjective but for me at face value that tells you absolutley everything.

 

 

Ive said all season, that a decent striker would make a world of difference to this team. Well i suspect we are about to find out.

Edited January 3, 2013 by bjd

[Arq]

Apparentley without Suarez, Liverpool would be 16th, not 8th. Without RvP, Man Utd would be 11th, not 1st. Without Torres, Chelsea would still be 4th.

 

Im aware its a little subjective but for me at face value that tells you absolutley everything.

 

 

Ive said all season, that a decent striker would make a world of difference to this team. Well i suspect we are about to find out.

 

Subjective or not, those are telling stats.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Arq

[coco]

What if Ba doesn't score goals, what then?

 

Bring in Pardew.

[Davey Baby]

What happens if the world turns out to be flat and we get invaded by Martians?

 

Sell Torres.

[Uno]

You say give the money to the new manager to spend but how much do you really think we can sell Torres for?

I think it will be another Sheva or Crespo job where we loan him out until his contract is up. Maybe just maybe if the deal were to happen we could include him in a deal for Falcao but there are two problems, 1) i dont think we will sign Falcao now and 2) if we did i doubt Torres would take such a big pay cut.

Thats the problem we have made for ourselves over the years. Buying player and paying them well over the odds in wages and then not being able to off load them because no one will match the salary that we pay them.

[Davey Baby]

You say give the money to the new manager to spend but how much do you really think we can sell Torres for?

I think it will be another Sheva or Crespo job where we loan him out until his contract is up. Maybe just maybe if the deal were to happen we could include him in a deal for Falcao but there are two problems, 1) i dont think we will sign Falcao now and 2) if we did i doubt Torres would take such a big pay cut.

Thats the problem we have made for ourselves over the years. Buying player and paying them well over the odds in wages and then not being able to off load them because no one will match the salary that we pay them.

 

If I were manager here's what I'd do ..

 

I'd get Torres in for a chat. I'd tell him I didn't rate him that he wasn't going to get a chance under me and he should find himself another club.

 

Then I would tell him to leave my office.

 

My next press conference, I would inform the press of my decision, telling them that Torres would not be included in the squad and he was now available for transfer.

 

The ball would then be in Torres' court.

 

He could find himself a club or he could rot for the duration of his contract, but at least the world would be under no illusions as to his choice.

 

He would not get any subsidy from Chelsea. We would not supplement his wages we would not help him in any way.

 

Find yourself a club or rot.

 

Take a pay cut somewhere else or rot.

 

It's time the club stopped being taken for mugs and took a hard line for once in their lives.

[mclovin83]

I was at the game last night and couldn't bring myself to watch any highlights when I got home so might struggle with remembering minute details but whilst the entire team (and FSW) were poor last night and should be held accountable Torres was truly awful, even by his own standards.

 

I am not one to write in and moan after every sub-standard performance from Torres, and I have defended him many times in fact, but last night was possibly the worst performance I have witnissed Torres put out in a Chelsea shirt and this was of course compunded by the fact we were playing a piss poor oppoenent, at home.

 

He was almost a caricature of himself last night- everytime he collected the ball in a promising attack he would hesitate, slow things down, take too many touches untill a defender would take it off him and the attack died. There was of course a few occasions where Torres was left in a heap on the floor looking at the ref for help whilst QPR broke, the ref not interested.

 

The thing that was most concerning was his movement. It was so bad I have to wonder what is going through his head. I remember one attack in the second half where Oscar was breaking with pace in a genuinely promising attack. It was just Torres up with him and instead of making a diagonal run into the box leaving the defence unsure who to stick with he ran closer to Oscar, almost away from goal ending up running paralell with Oscar just a yard or two away from him meaning that the potential pass to Torres was pointless and there was a gaping hole in the box with nobody there. It seemed everyone in the entire stadium knew where Torres should have been apart from Torres himself.

 

I can't wait to see what Demba Ba can do upfront for us but fear, like many, he is being bought as back up for Torres, nothing more.

[abramovich]

We really need more than just Ba, I'd sign another striker. I don't consider Torres as a reliable option. Ideally, I'd ship him out ASAP but in reality it's not going to happen until summer.

[Davey Baby]

Torres was truly awful, even by his own standards.

 

 

Have to disagree. That was the typical Torres performance and it's why so many of us have complained for so long.

 

Hesitant? Slow? Too many touches? Continually lost possession? Falls to ground too easily and snarls at the ref, as if the world has done him wrong? Abject movement?

 

Yup, that's the Torres we know so well.

[bjd]

Have to disagree. That was the typical Torres performance and it's why so many of us have complained for so long.

 

Hesitant? Slow? Too many touches? Continually lost possession? Falls to ground too easily and snarls at the ref, as if the world has done him wrong? Abject movement?

 

Yup, that's the Torres we know so well.

 

Can i add : throw hands in the air when not given the ball and miss easy chance too ?

 

In fact next match, we should play Torres bingo.

[Davey Baby]

The really embarrassing thing about Torres is that fancy kick he does when he puts one foot behind the other.

 

I've seen him do it three times, each time when we've been winning, his confidence was high, having got a goal or two.

 

It's embarrassing. He's so desperate to show off, to show us he is an elite player.

 

When you consider the dross he normally serves up you just wish he would stick to the basics .. and master them.

 

Somebody should be having a word in his ear.

 

We don't want to see you show-boating on the rare occasions things are going well, we want to see you put in a shift every week and perform.

 

We want to see you become a competent centre-forward.

 

He has delusions of grandeur, as if he wants us all to marvel at his skill rather than paying attention to his scoring record, which quite frankly is embarrassing.

 

I don't see him doing those fancy tricks in the big games against the big sides, reason being he's always sh*t in those games.

[Amputechture]

If I were manager here's what I'd do ..

 

I'd get Torres in for a chat. I'd tell him I didn't rate him that he wasn't going to get a chance under me and he should find himself another club.

 

Then I would tell him to leave my office.

 

My next press conference, I would inform the press of my decision, telling them that Torres would not be included in the squad and he was now available for transfer.

 

Unfortunately, if you say that you would get sacked prior to arriving at the press conference. 

[shedpensioner]

I was at the game last night and couldn't bring myself to watch any highlights when I got home so might struggle with remembering minute details but whilst the entire team (and FSW) were poor last night and should be held accountable Torres was truly awful, even by his own standards.

I am not one to write in and moan after every sub-standard performance from Torres, and I have defended him many times in fact, but last night was possibly the worst performance I have witnissed Torres put out in a Chelsea shirt and this was of course compunded by the fact we were playing a piss poor oppoenent, at home.

He was almost a caricature of himself last night- everytime he collected the ball in a promising attack he would hesitate, slow things down, take too many touches untill a defender would take it off him and the attack died. There was of course a few occasions where Torres was left in a heap on the floor looking at the ref for help whilst QPR broke, the ref not interested.

The thing that was most concerning was his movement. It was so bad I have to wonder what is going through his head. I remember one attack in the second half where Oscar was breaking with pace in a genuinely promising attack. It was just Torres up with him and instead of making a diagonal run into the box leaving the defence unsure who to stick with he ran closer to Oscar, almost away from goal ending up running paralell with Oscar just a yard or two away from him meaning that the potential pass to Torres was pointless and there was a gaping hole in the box with nobody there. It seemed everyone in the entire stadium knew where Torres should have been apart from Torres himself.

I can't wait to see what Demba Ba can do upfront for us but fear, like many, he is being bought as back up for Torres, nothing more.

That is a proper critique of a player, no bitching just an assessment of his game!

Well done.