At first he wasn't a part of the Italy squad for the Euro and I thought that's good but now he seems to be a part of that squad that will play in the Euros anyway... So another player that won't have much rest in the summer.

I thought he wasn't going and it would have been a good summer to rest in order to be ready for the new season but now I'm worried that we have so many players that are going to play in the Euro, most notably Mason Mount that features in 54 games, Werner 52 games and Kante 48 games, Dave also played a whole lot of minutes as well.

22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

At first he wasn't a part of the Italy squad for the Euro and I thought that's good but now he seems to be a part of that squad that will play in the Euros anyway... So another player that won't have much rest in the summer.

I thought he wasn't going and it would have been a good summer to rest in order to be ready for the new season but now I'm worried that we have so many players that are going to play in the Euro, most notably Mason Mount that features in 54 games, Werner 52 games and Kante 48 games, Dave also played a whole lot of minutes as well.

He was always part of the Italy squad despite being criticised, I think they were seeing how fit he was going to be after the season as it's been a long one. Emerson is going too and it's the same story for him, plays for Italy despite not playing for Chelsea.

England I think are going deep into the tournament, Mason is going to be half dead when he comes back to Chelsea...

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

At first he wasn't a part of the Italy squad for the Euro and I thought that's good but now he seems to be a part of that squad that will play in the Euros anyway... So another player that won't have much rest in the summer.

I thought he wasn't going and it would have been a good summer to rest in order to be ready for the new season but now I'm worried that we have so many players that are going to play in the Euro, most notably Mason Mount that features in 54 games, Werner 52 games and Kante 48 games, Dave also played a whole lot of minutes as well.

This is an important point. Not trying to be a downer but after PSG reached (and lost) the final last season everybody thought: now they finally got going as a group instead of a collection of individuals and will really tear it up next season. Bottom line being: they totally got knocked out at the very start still being a bit out of breath, also mentally, and were chasing since from the very beginning, be it within the league or within the CL. Of course the situation now is different but remembering the threads right before the CL final there were already people questioning whether TT would be here come next season.

 

 

Jorginho playing against Turkey.

Caught the last 20 of the first half and he looked good, keeping the tempo going and was unlucky not get an assist near the end of the half.

I don't remember Italy losing a game with Jorginho in the starting lineup.

46 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I don't remember Italy losing a game with Jorginho in the starting lineup.

Have they ever been 2-0 down by half time with him on the pitch? 

Jorginho is an amazing player with a unique skill set, so will never get the plaudits from certain fans. He doesn't look like an athlete and he's not fast or strong, so he'll always be doubted.

He's a masterful reader of the game with excellent technical ability. The way he can set the tempo of the game is phenomenal. So lucky to have him.

52 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

Jorginho is an amazing player with a unique skill set, so will never get the plaudits from certain fans. He doesn't look like an athlete and he's not fast or strong, so he'll always be doubted.

He's a masterful reader of the game with excellent technical ability. The way he can set the tempo of the game is phenomenal. So lucky to have him.

Looking forward to @just reply here lol. 

 

Om a side note any Chelsea player *cough* Kante *cough* who wins the euros becomes a double European champion 😄

1 hour ago, DannyVblue said:

Jorginho is an amazing player with a unique skill set, so will never get the plaudits from certain fans. He doesn't look like an athlete and he's not fast or strong, so he'll always be doubted.

He's a masterful reader of the game with excellent technical ability. The way he can set the tempo of the game is phenomenal. So lucky to have him.

The problem with Jorginho is he's never been fully accepted due to the Sarri regime which means any bad game has people calling for him to be sold (ala Arsenal at home).

6 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

Jorginho is an amazing player with a unique skill set, so will never get the plaudits from certain fans. He doesn't look like an athlete and he's not fast or strong, so he'll always be doubted.

He's a masterful reader of the game with excellent technical ability. The way he can set the tempo of the game is phenomenal. So lucky to have him.

It is all about what you bring to the table vs your weaknesses. Jorginho can't protect your backline or cover wide space so you have to compensate by playing either back 3 or two very good midfielder alongside him.

I have no problem with compensating, it is one of the art of football, we compensate for Hazard lack of defensive output for years. However, when you are the reason the team has to compensate you better be very2 influential, you can't just pass backwards, left or right, you have to dominate the game. 

 

8 hours ago, Argo said:

The problem with Jorginho is he's never been fully accepted due to the Sarri regime which means any bad game has people calling for him to be sold (ala Arsenal at home).

Yeah I agree with you. And to be fair he has had some very bad games where I've been shouting that I never want to see him in a Chelsea shirt again in the heat of the moment haha (west brom one of those games). But the positives far outweigh the negatives for me, especially against the best teams and in the Champions League. 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

It is all about what you bring to the table vs your weaknesses. Jorginho can't protect your backline or cover wide space so you have to compensate by playing either back 3 or two very good midfielder alongside him.

I have no problem with compensating, it is one of the art of football, we compensate for Hazard lack of defensive output for years. However, when you are the reason the team has to compensate you better be very2 influential, you can't just pass backwards, left or right, you have to dominate the game. 

 

That's where our views differ because I actually think he does protect the back line. He might not be able to chase back if he's beaten, but the amount of times he intercepts our opponents passes when they try and attack us is ridiculous. He's always there mopping up and restarting the attack. Brilliant reader of the game and stops a lot of attacks before they get started.

He'll never be one for chasing down the channels but we're lucky we have 2 kantes for that! 😉

Thought he played well last night for Italy.

Thought he just owned the midfield last night, not really pressured, and controlled it at his tempo.

2 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

That's where our views differ because I actually think he does protect the back line. He might not be able to chase back if he's beaten, but the amount of times he intercepts our opponents passes when they try and attack us is ridiculous. He's always there mopping up and restarting the attack. Brilliant reader of the game and stops a lot of attacks before they get started.

He'll never be one for chasing down the channels but we're lucky we have 2 kantes for that! 😉

I completely disagree. No one talk about this because we have been playing with 3 cb under Tuchel. 

It was one of our key problem under Lamp and Sarri. The moment opp got counter opportunity, all hell break lose. Your cb are being run at without any protection.  You pretty much need two wc mobile cb to survive. 

 

1 hour ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Thought he just owned the midfield last night, not really pressured, and controlled it at his tempo.

International football suit Jorginho to the tee. 

The game is much slower and there is no good pressing team. 

Edited June 12, 20215 yr by Bob stark

As I said before, he’s very good against teams that don’t press intensively and physically, good to have him for CL against European teams and for the PL top teams. But my god do we need someone different for mid to low table teams! It’s not beating City and the dippers that win you the PL, it’s the likes of WBA, Arsenal, Wolves... that give you the title.

 

On 12/06/2021 at 10:10, DannyVblue said:

Jorginho is an amazing player with a unique skill set, so will never get the plaudits from certain fans. He doesn't look like an athlete and he's not fast or strong, so he'll always be doubted.

He's a masterful reader of the game with excellent technical ability. The way he can set the tempo of the game is phenomenal. So lucky to have him.

He doesn't do half the things certain fans claim he can do, and every time he has an above-average game he is labelled by self-described intelligensia as "the best player on the pitch".

 

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

He doesn't do half the things certain fans claim he can do, and every time he has an above-average game he is labelled by self-described intelligensia as "the best player on the pitch".

 

You don't win the champions league convincingly with any passengers in the team. All 11 were great, including Jorginho, so I find it sad that he doesn't get credit from some. He's a Chelsea legend now after that Champions League win along with the rest of the team.

5 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

He doesn't do half the things certain fans claim he can do, and every time he has an above-average game he is labelled by self-described intelligensia as "the best player on the pitch".

 

Careful SC. Best to let sleeping dogs lie or else the intelligentsia/Sarri cult will be in here demanding you repent. 

2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Careful SC. Best to let sleeping dogs lie or else the intelligentsia/Sarri cult will be in here demanding you repent. 

The Sarri Cult is still here bubbling under the surface, they won’t need much of an excuse to rear their ugly heads!

Make sure your tinfoil hat is on tight enough

4 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

You don't win the champions league convincingly with any passengers in the team. All 11 were great, including Jorginho, so I find it sad that he doesn't get credit from some. He's a Chelsea legend now after that Champions League win along with the rest of the team.

All that may be true and while the word "legend" is thrown around far too easily - especially in reference to Jorginho - he has proved he is actually quite reliable in big games. He is a great tactical player who can step up to take big penalties and for the most part will follow a coach's tactical plan to a T.

That said, it still doesn't really provide any evidence to support the ideas that he has a unique skill set  or that he is a masterful reader of the game or he has excellent technical ability. I see these terms thrown around by fans but there's really nothing to back that up either this year or the two previous.

His skill set is incredibly limited. It's why he often is described, generously, as a systems player, because the things he is good at (short passing in midfield, intercepting long passes, taking penalties) do not complement nor cover his weaknesses (pace/physicality, creativity, tackling) and therefore he needs a niche role within a team's tactics in order to be merely functional.

His technical ability is limited. He often fails to deliver long balls to a player's run, instead providing it either behind or directly at them, which breaks momentum. The way in which he strikes the ball while passing reduces backspin and you will often see his balls fail to slow on the bounce, for this reason.

His ability to dictate tempo is non-existent and frankly i'm not convinced that any Chelsea fan who uses this phrase actually knows what it means. The phrase reminds me of players like Pirlo, Iniesta, Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Sneijder and Modric. It is the ability to speed up the tempo by exchanging quick short passes in midfield combined with the ability to sit deeper and switch the play from left to right flanks. Jorginho is good at the latter but lacks the technical and physical ability to do the former.

Like @RMH points out, all the above only rears its head when a smaller team sits back and allows Jorginho time on the ball. There is scarcely a bigger insult to a professional footballer than being given the ball because they can trust you won't do much with it, and pretty much every team that has figured Chelsea out under successive managers have realised this is one of the keys to beating Chelsea. He is a good, serviceable player but given his reputation and what the team actually needs from its midfielders, we need to do a lot better.

 

 

On 12/06/2021 at 14:47, RMH said:

As I said before, he’s very good against teams that don’t press intensively and physically, good to have him for CL against European teams and for the PL top teams. But my god do we need someone different for mid to low table teams! It’s not beating City and the dippers that win you the PL, it’s the likes of WBA, Arsenal, Wolves... that give you the title.

He has shown for the past 3 years that he can deal with the press so you repeating the same old thing over and over doesn't make Jorginho a worse player at all. What gives you the title is a striker that can score 20 goals, the last time we had that we won the league.

We do need a new DM but Jorginho has done his role really well for us for 3 seasons now, one of the best deep lying playmakers in the PL without a doubt and also for 3 different managers, we simply wouldn't manage to finish top 4 and to win the CL without him in the previous seasons, simple as that.