14 minutes ago, Dean said:

I think it might have been me in the MOTM thread. Bergkamp v Argentina in the 1998 World Cup was what I had in mind. Also similar to Gazza v Scotland in euro 96 ( I think - and maybe somebody did make the comparison). Difference was no goal on the end of it unfortunately but one hopes it’s a taste of things to come.

On a separate note, even though Havertz has a way to go before proving himself fully, credit to @Gol15 for persistently seeing through Havertz’s underwhelming start with us. 

I think that it's not hard to see why we bought him - the way he moves and just the awareness and understanding of the game that he has is amazing, he doesn't look like a 21 year old at all. On top of that which is the hardest thing to learn, he has good technique and good work rate.

I think that some people just chose to ignore the obvious and were focusing on the fact that he didn't automatically score goals but when you put that into the context of him not having any pre-season and being played in multiple positions I think it's obvious that despite a slow start that there is a good reason why he was played all over the place, he does possess a great ability and great potential.

I have said a few months back that if you consider his minutes and compare him to Mount, Kai has very similar end product. So in my eyes he will be great for us just like Mount. I personally believe that Kai will be known as Lampard's greatest signing in the future.

Still not sold on him playing as a false 9.

I just think that between him and Mount with their ability to receive the ball in tight spaces if you've got a quality centre forward, with decent finishing, they could mop up the chances those two can create. 

10 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Still not sold on him playing as a false 9.

I just think that between him and Mount with their ability to receive the ball in tight spaces if you've got a quality centre forward, with decent finishing, they could mop up the chances those two can create. 

If you look at our squad aside from the back 3 system. It looks like we're tailored for the 4231. I could see Puli, Mount and Kai behind a lethal number 9.

On 11/04/2021 at 07:25, ForeverCarefree said:

Still not sold on him playing as a false 9.

I just think that between him and Mount with their ability to receive the ball in tight spaces if you've got a quality centre forward, with decent finishing, they could mop up the chances those two can create. 

Agree. . . he just hasn't demonstrated the finishing ability of a true striker.  

Seems like we are super deep at the #10 spot as I feel like Kai, Mount, Pulisic, and Werner can play all that spot.  But we don't have anyone who can really effectively play the #9 spot.  Kai had like 4 really great chances and only buried one.  

Maybe it's something Kai can work on but he doesn't seem natural as a striker.  

4 hours ago, Valpo said:

Agree. . . he just hasn't demonstrated the finishing ability of a true striker.  

Seems like we are super deep at the #10 spot as I feel like Kai, Mount, Pulisic, and Werner can play all that spot.  But we don't have anyone who can really effectively play the #9 spot.  Kai had like 4 really great chances and only buried one.  

Maybe it's something Kai can work on but he doesn't seem natural as a striker.  

I think of Kai as the "second option" in attack like what AC Milan had with Kaka where Inzaghi was highest up front or basically in offside... Even if things go through Kai, there should be a real poacher somewhere.

Edited April 12, 20215 yr by Gol15

Havertz had a good game but some are getting excruciatingly carried away. 

 

We're not buying Havertz to have the odd game here and there, we're buying him to be a superstar. I'll cheer more when he puts together a run of games like this 

On 11/04/2021 at 19:25, ForeverCarefree said:

Still not sold on him playing as a false 9.

I just think that between him and Mount with their ability to receive the ball in tight spaces if you've got a quality centre forward, with decent finishing, they could mop up the chances those two can create. 

I don't striker is necessarily what we need. It really depend on what you want. Basically we need an attacker who want to run behind to complement two no 10. We have 3 players in the team with that profile (werner, tammy and puli) each bring different thing beside their behind run. 

On 11/04/2021 at 12:25, ForeverCarefree said:

Still not sold on him playing as a false 9.

I just think that between him and Mount with their ability to receive the ball in tight spaces if you've got a quality centre forward, with decent finishing, they could mop up the chances those two can create. 

Just 2 touches in the opposition penalty area before being subbed off last night. 

Not sure at what point a proper centre forwards gets as many chances despite underwhelming performances. 

Best thing about the game for me was seeing his hold-up play with some BHA defenders touch-tight. I remember it took Ramires a full season to learn how to use his body in this league and not be a featherweight. And Morata is still learning... 

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Just 2 touches in the opposition penalty area before being subbed off last night. 

Not sure at what point a proper centre forwards gets as many chances despite underwhelming performances. 

Probably when a proper footballer replaces Werner.

Lots of fingers being pointed at Timo (correctly), but I'm way more worried about Kai, specifically about his body language. He always seems a little bit dazed and kinda bored.

Hoped tonight's game would prove me wrong and he'd come on looking for blood, but besides that Varane's free kick he mostly strolled around. Ziyech was pressing for both of them imo.

Maybe someone good at finding stats can help me with this, but is he one of those guys who thrives playing at home (with all the atmosphere giving him some fuel to burn)? All those goals/assists last year were evenly distributed or did he score 3 in one game and then disappeared a bit?

Not convinced by him. One good performance against a rubbish palace side giving loads of space doesn't change that. Even worse that he hasn't pushed on from that game and has gone back to his usual self.

I like certain bits from Kai but my main issue is I really don’t know what his best position is meant to be 

1 minute ago, timetowaste said:

I like certain bits from Kai but my main issue is I really don’t know what his best position is meant to be 

Not as a false 9, that's becoming increasingly clear. 

Still inconsistent which is no surprise considering his age.

But I see a future top player in him. He looks better in every way compared to earlier this season and stronger too.

Happy to see him play this weekend, and I'm sure he will. But I wouldn't want him anywhere near the starting 11 in the return leg against Real. We just don't know which Havertz will get on the game day, he had a couple of good games, then dropped off and couldn't get a kick in the next game. He should be more consistent, give him the benefit doubt this season, but must do better next season.

Him playing like he's a delicate fairy is still hurting the midfield, I'd rather have another Mason Mount than him tbh.

3 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

Him playing like he's a delicate fairy is still hurting the midfield, I'd rather have another Mason Mount than him tbh.

Move around like a delicate fairy, sting like a princess.

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Not as a false 9, that's becoming increasingly clear. 

Agreed, he doesn’t have that striker instinct, but I definitely think there’s a top player there, just not sure the best role for him.

Overall I’m giving every player we signed this season another season to get off and running, especially havertz given he’s 21 in a new country, no fans in the stadium, had injury and Covid issues. 

While I agree with the general consensus I have to add it wasn't just one game he played well, he looked good vs Everton as well as Palace.

2 hours ago, sonic90 said:

Him playing like he's a delicate fairy is still hurting the midfield, I'd rather have another Mason Mount than him tbh.

Ironically Mount had a very quiet game, he had a lot of space in the first 20 minutes but couldn't do much part from passing to Chilwell.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Ironically Mount had a very quiet game, he had a lot of space in the first 20 minutes but couldn't do much part from passing to Chilwell.

I would dispute that he had a quiet game but I was more talking about the difference in aggression between the players, everything Kai does he mostly does it softly, whether it is passing, shooting or fighting for a 50/50.

13 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Not convinced by him. One good performance against a rubbish palace side giving loads of space doesn't change that. Even worse that he hasn't pushed on from that game and has gone back to his usual self.

This will keep happening too, because he's not getting consistent games to gain any momentum. If he is constantly in and out of the side, then we won't see the best of him very often.

Like has been pointed out above though, I don't know where he fits right now. If we stick with a 3-4-3 formation, then false 9 is the only way in for him. He can't play in Jorginho and Kante / Kovacic's position. Mount is undroppable, he's too important, and we need a quick and tricky wide player like Pulisic in the team to give us something special. Havertz doesn't fit in any of these positions. 

The only way Havertz is getting in regularly is if we switch formation and play with a CAM. But if we do that, then surely Mount will take that spot ahead of him. I can't see us forcing Mount out wide, he's better roaming.

His laconic, Berbatov-esque style is very easy on the eye, and he does know how to convert chances

The way he finish those chances just ooze style and class. So effortless