11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Last seasons heatmap for Leipzig;

So far this season:

Anyone see any similarities? Me too.

He's always played off the left.

You Realise At Leipzig He Was A 2nd Striker Who Drifted Out To The Wing, Not Actually Playing As An Out And Out Winger Like He Is Being Played By Lamps

3 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

You Realise At Leipzig He Was A 2nd Striker Who Drifted Out To The Wing, Not Actually Playing As An Out And Out Winger Like He Is Being Played By Lamps

Seems hard for a few to understand this.

He's a striker, not a winger, not an inside forward. He was one of the best strikers last season even with missing a high amount of chances because he gets into a chance more often as a striker and he got to make up for his misses, he simply can't do that in our current system.

Against Arsenal he was getting the ball near the touchline or near the corner flag, the one time he got the ball more centrally he tried to force it and his shot went wide.

He played as a striker for us just handful of games and he scored as much as he had scored in this other role, call in whatever you like, even though in this other role he played 10-13 times while as a striker he played 2-3 times.

This is him last season:

He played only a handful of games as the winger/inside forward whatever you want to call it.

He played only a handful of games as the striker for us this season. 6 games as the striker 3 goals 3 assists is an actual proof that he's way more efficient while playing as a striker than as a winger (or whatever you want to call it.

I don't see how can you argue against this, he clearly isn't as versatile as Lampard thinks he is.

8 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

You Realise At Leipzig He Was A 2nd Striker Who Drifted Out To The Wing, Not Actually Playing As An Out And Out Winger Like He Is Being Played By Lamps

But it's not as if he's being asked to play a position that's completely alien to him. Plenty of players have to adapt and if your coach asks you to play a role and you do it. Look at Kane at Spurs. 

Right now, Werner doesn't even look capable of controlling a football, never mind play as a striker or second striker.

I think Werner should be tried down the middle.

I also think he will put away 1 in 3 chances from the middle position.

Will Frank try it?

 

1 minute ago, Strider6003 said:

I think Werner should be tried down the middle.

I also think he will put away 1 in 3 chances from the middle position.

Will Frank try it?

 

he will try it once he completely rids him of any confidence haha

Yeah the reason why his heat map isn't very hot in the box is because he doesn't spend much time in there other than to shoot and score. Another reason why stats etc. don't always tell the whole story.

15 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

You Realise At Leipzig He Was A 2nd Striker Who Drifted Out To The Wing, Not Actually Playing As An Out And Out Winger Like He Is Being Played By Lamps

Alright so we can agree he likes to play from the left then since he drifted out there? Then how come he's not even looking like a footballer right now?

Folks are screaming for him to be in the middle but would you trust him to finish any chance currently? Like really? And he can't control the football for goodness sake and he's got a lot more space now then he will get in the jam packed middle. On everything he's shown us recently he'd be an even bigger disaster in the middle.

17 minutes ago, Brutos said:

He drifts left that’s  different to starting left and having the Centre being occupied by someone else. He starts as CF not as LW and drifts left

When he starts LW or RW it’s impossible to run into his favourite position CF if Tammy/Giroud is there. This guy doesn’t go from one of the most lethal in Europe to a dud in 6 months. 

Yussuf Poulsen was Leipzig's main striker last season and Werner played off of him. Other than the games Poulsen was injured that was Leipzig's tactic week in and week out. Werner always played as a LW/SS. Main difference is that Werner didn't hug the touchline as much when playing for Leipzig and was allowed to move towards the center more. Not sure why Lampard has him running up and down the touchline most of the game. It would be easy to start Werner on the left wing and just encourage him to go towards the middle more.  

23 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Alright so we can agree he likes to play from the left then since he drifted out there? Then how come he's not even looking like a footballer right now?

Folks are screaming for him to be in the middle but would you trust him to finish any chance currently? Like really? And he can't control the football for goodness sake and he's got a lot more space now then he will get in the jam packed middle. On everything he's shown us recently he'd be an even bigger disaster in the middle.

So when Tammy stops scoring we should just put him on the wing till he scores from there first before putting him back to play his real position, is that how it's done?

Try him in the middle then it he’s still missing chances drop him. We’re not winning games. Therefore Lampard has to change things. Simple as that 

I don't think Lampard doesn't know what to do with him. I think at the moment he is trying to make everyone happy, which is becoming detrimental. 

If I remember correctly, Frank's reason for purchasing Timo is so that he can play striker. Frank wanted more goals from his strikers, therefore he acquired Timo and sent Bats out on loan.

Now, a few things are working to side track that plan/intention.

Tammy and Giroud are both playing well and scoring goals, so it makes sense to keep giving them minutes. Which mean Timo have to play elsewhere and LW makes the most sense.

Additionally, all 3 wingers are injured which means you need more cover at wing positions than ever. So Timo spending more time a wing positions are to be expected.

Anyone that have seen Timo plays, know that he's an out and out striker. Once the team is fully fit, and all 3 wingers are performing; I then expect to see Timo going back to striker with Giroud and Tammy fighting to be #2. And if he still doesn't produce as a striker, and he will be sent to the bench in favors of Tammy/Giroud.

 

 

46 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

If I remember correctly, Frank's reason for purchasing Timo is so that he can play striker. Frank wanted more goals from his strikers, therefore he acquired Timo and sent Bats out on loan.

Now, a few things are working to side track that plan/intention.

Tammy and Giroud are both playing well and scoring goals, so it makes sense to keep giving them minutes. Which mean Timo have to play elsewhere and LW makes the most sense.

Additionally, all 3 wingers are injured which means you need more cover at wing positions than ever. So Timo spending more time a wing positions are to be expected.

Anyone that have seen Timo plays, know that he's an out and out striker. Once the team is fully fit, and all 3 wingers are performing; I then expect to see Timo going back to striker with Giroud and Tammy fighting to be #2. And if he still doesn't produce as a striker, and he will be sent to the bench in favors of Tammy/Giroud.

 

 

Tammy offers absolutely nothing in the team. He scored goal that even a 80 years old guy could score... Technically he is abysmal. Championship level or bottom Premiere League at best. 

I don't disagree with you, but he still score goals. Disappear for 89 minutes, then show in 90' to pop in a goal.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

So when Tammy stops scoring we should just put him on the wing till he scores from there first before putting him back to play his real position, is that how it's done?

Timo's confidence is shot to pieces it would be unwise to stick him in as the CF immediately in the PL and leave out Tammy and Giroud who are in decent goal scoring form. 

I would start him as the CF in the FA Cup game and if our wingers are fit I would give him time as a CF off the bench against tired legs. It's fair to say that he will need this season to truly acclimatise to the League and I am pretty sure next season he will have a much better shout at stamping his name as our main CF. 

One thing I think we can all agree on is Timo has not been playing well enough on the left or the right to merit retaining his place there in the side.

So if 2 of Ziyech,  CHO and Pulisic are available they should play there ahead of him. I would argue Mount would offer more there as well. 

Werner has not had enough games as the CF to say whether he deserve to play there or not imo. 

I would advocate he gets a run of games there either as a sole striker or with a partner. I would also advocate a run of games for Havertz as a pure 10, not changing his position even game. 

In normal circumstances, not a game a day after the last, like this:

 

Mendy

 

James

Zouma 

Silva

Chilwell

 

Kante

Mount

 

Zyiech 

Havertz

Pulisic

 

Werner

Frank, this player on the left just doesn't work. He can't only dribble in straight lines. I saw when he had the ball towards the corner and the stark difference to what  a player like Hazard would do in that situation.

12 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Timo's confidence is shot to pieces it would be unwise to stick him in as the CF immediately in the PL and leave out Tammy and Giroud who are in decent goal scoring form. 

I would start him as the CF in the FA Cup game and if our wingers are fit I would give him time as a CF off the bench against tired legs. It's fair to say that he will need this season to truly acclimatise to the League and I am pretty sure next season he will have a much better shout at stamping his name as our main CF. 

I agree. Let him fully restart. Bench him and then play him in the FA Cup as the CF. He played all games, most of them outside of his comfort zone so he needs to slowly rebuild his confidence now.

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

So when Tammy stops scoring we should just put him on the wing till he scores from there first before putting him back to play his real position, is that how it's done?

Not even remotely similar players. Tammy is a target man and poacher who's barely "drifted" in his career.

Timo Werner actually did well in his current position to start the season. Looked dangerous, had plenty of chances more or less every game and he worried defenders.

I can't tell you what happened but somehow he's lost it completely. Atrocious finishing, brutal touch and bad passing. And another thing he's seemed to have lost is his workrate. To start the season it was great and he was pressing and running all over the place. He's even stopped doing that now which also was the reason why he was hooked at half time yesterday and called out by the manager post-match.

 

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Not even remotely similar players. Tammy is a target man and poacher who's barely "drifted" in his career.

Timo Werner actually did well in his current position to start the season. Looked dangerous, had plenty of chances more or less every game and he worried defenders.

I can't tell you what happened but somehow he's lost it completely. Atrocious finishing, brutal touch and bad passing. And another thing he's seemed to have lost is his workrate. To start the season it was great and he was pressing and running all over the place. He's even stopped doing that now which also was the reason why he was hooked at half time yesterday and called out by the manager post-match.

 

I'm just saying that Werner will have a harder time to become a totally different player, if he wasn't bought to be in this role we shouldn't insist that he must become what he has never actually been, that's almost a guaranteed recipe for him becoming a flop.

He lost his whole game while playing there on the left side, if we still want him to be our striker we should first bench him and then slowly play him again in the middle where he can score goals. He's also a poacher after all, he just has the pace to help him because he's not that clinical.

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

Not even remotely similar players. Tammy is a target man and poacher who's barely "drifted" in his career.

Timo Werner actually did well in his current position to start the season. Looked dangerous, had plenty of chances more or less every game and he worried defenders.

I can't tell you what happened but somehow he's lost it completely. Atrocious finishing, brutal touch and bad passing. And another thing he's seemed to have lost is his workrate. To start the season it was great and he was pressing and running all over the place. He's even stopped doing that now which also was the reason why he was hooked at half time yesterday and called out by the manager post-match.

 

Yes. Werner's body language yesterday was horrible. He looked annoyed from minute 1 and I really didn't have the feeling he gave it his best. Maybe he is just tired and needs a rest as he has never played that many games in such a short time before considering how few games Bundesliga teams get to play in comparison to the PL

This is a case were both are right. Werner isn't playing in the same role (position yes, but people use them interchangeably, so it confuses things).

1. Werner has to be doing better, there's no excuse to be missing those chances, doesn't matter if he's playing at LB or CB, he has to put them away. 

2. Yes he played LW, but not the same role he's playing in now, now he's constantly behind the back 4. We are a team with high amounts of possession, we camp in the oppositions half, there's not a whole lot of space for Werner to move onto and make those inside runs. So no, he's not playing in the exact same role/position as he was at RB.

There that's it really. 

1 hour ago, reparto corse said:

Yes. Werner's body language yesterday was horrible. He looked annoyed from minute 1 and I really didn't have the feeling he gave it his best. Maybe he is just tired and needs a rest as he has never played that many games in such a short time before considering how few games Bundesliga teams get to play in comparison to the PL

 

 

His role on the wing means he suddenly has more defensive duties which will sap his energy, whilst back in Germany his former team mates are enjoying a nice two week break to recharge the batteries.

No doubt Werner has came up short, but.. Back in June when the negotiation took place, would he have signed if Lampard said - you'd play week in week out, bu sometime on the left, sometime on the right, and if the other 2 strikers aren't available, you could play as a striker. I bet he'd sign up for Liverpool if he wasn't offered the starting striker spot. 6 months into his Chelsea career, he's doing exactly that, filling the spots on the wings, and unless both Tammy/Giroud are out, he's NOT the striker.  Sure,  if Pullisic was fit, he didn't have to play on the left, but there was the option of CHO on the left, so it's not like he's the last resort week in week out. Not every player could adapt to a new position, and even it does it will take time, it's a hell lot easier to play people in their natural position. Again, if this was Sarri playing Werner on the left, lots of people would be calling him to be sacked.