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WBA v Chelsea (PL) Sat 26th Sep 2020 17:30 GMT


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14 minutes ago, The Brit said:

No, but no side is trying to make as many changes under as much scrutiny/pressure as Chelsea. Too many people are judging them as a finished product now, even though three of the new signings haven’t started a league game yet.

The chelsea board don’t tend to be patient I get that, but it was obvious there were going to be teething problems in first few weeks.

Thing is that the line that is still sinking the boat is the one with the least number of changes. Bar Silva, who shouldn't be making those mistakes given his massive experience, our keeper and defensive line is the same as last two seasons. The attacking lines have rescued one point, and both Werner and Havertz have been ok so far. For me the defence needs a total bash, you can't have individual players making stupid mistakes every single game, and cannot scapegoat one single player as all take turns to make them. Both keepers have mistakes in them too. But for me the most baffling line is the midfield. Why on earth would you play Kante against a team you're going to dominate when he is only good to roam the pitch to recover the ball? Play midfielders with better quality on the ball and reserve Kante for teams that we are going to struggle to dominate like Liverpool or City.

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What stood out for me 

1.  Cho was great on the left. Great drive and really had an impact. 
2 Reece James is an imperfect full back. He looks great in many ways and played some excellent passes and one fantastic cross but he did not go beyond the opposition full back once  the vast majority of his passes were simple infield back passes. 
 

‘’on the day Werner was average. That happens and no drama. 

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2 hours ago, Deino said:

They had an established system with a clear way of playing. Each of their player understands their role.

Lamps is changing formations and lineups every time and even in games. Different circumstances.

 

You're comparing an experienced manager with multiple titles under his belt, against an amateur coach that's still learning on the job.

Totally different situations.

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1 hour ago, SFL82 said:

I’m going to say what everyone is thinking even if they push it out of their heads because of loyalty and optimism....this job has come too early in franks career. 
 

He has attributes to be a great manager but he is still a bit naive and with the money spent and the talent in the squad he is going to need to get results or its not going to last.

We all want him to do well and the story is romantic but if that will translate into reality...we shall see, I hope so but the flaws are clear. 

If people balk at this (and I do on one level - I guess my heart?) it’s probably because you’re correct - we don’t want to believe it and so push it out. But our heads (certainly mine) also recognise the flaws along with the reality that SFL will have to correct them ASAP ... coz football management at the top is brutally competitive. The odds of success are slim beyond our comprehension, and that’s before we even get to the specifics of being the manager at Chelsea, where even the successful ones all ultimately failed. 
 

We all want SFL to succeed as Chelsea manager but it’s important to recognise those odds and not to be tricked by our hearts into thinking that somehow it’s his destiny, as that would only exacerbate the disappointment of things not working out. As you say - no matter how good we think he is, with all this money spent if he doesn’t improve on last season he will probably be out. And I say “probably” only to reflect the extra leeway his CFC legend status may grant him vs other managers. Obviously I hope he continues to defy the odds and becomes Chelsea’s best manager ever, making me ashamed that I ever harboured any doubts.

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Disgusting performance, the same smiple, unforced mistakes. Are they seriously want take over the Kepa role? Even Kepa doesn't make mistakes like that with in the first 5 minutes of a game. Silva, I could let this one go, clearly not aware of the pace and pressing of the game. Alonso, really doesn't want to defend, last game we put it on Chritensen/Kepa, yet it was his lack of effort let us down the first goal, he's doing it again, not even trying after 5 minutes on the field. Offensively we look better, but any other day we would not have saved the point, and to be honest WBA looked comfortable until their GK made a Kepa move and let us get on the score sheet. Once more, where are our fit players? No Zouma and Chilwell in the team, unfit again? We could have a 40 men team and still failed to pick a first 11, with the way injury is going. Are we training too hard, or just fragile? F* knows.

 

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48 minutes ago, RMH said:

Thing is that the line that is still sinking the boat is the one with the least number of changes. Bar Silva, who shouldn't be making those mistakes given his massive experience, our keeper and defensive line is the same as last two seasons. The attacking lines have rescued one point, and both Werner and Havertz have been ok so far. For me the defence needs a total bash, you can't have individual players making stupid mistakes every single game, and cannot scapegoat one single player as all take turns to make them. Both keepers have mistakes in them too. But for me the most baffling line is the midfield. Why on earth would you play Kante against a team you're going to dominate when he is only good to roam the pitch to recover the ball? Play midfielders with better quality on the ball and reserve Kante for teams that we are going to struggle to dominate like Liverpool or City.

Mendy and Chilwell haven’t started a league game yet, so that’s another two major issues at the back hopefully solved 

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20 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Disgusting performance, the same smiple, unforced mistakes. Are they seriously want take over the Kepa role? Even Kepa doesn't make mistakes like that with in the first 5 minutes of a game. Silva, I could let this one go, clearly not aware of the pace and pressing of the game. Alonso, really doesn't want to defend, last game we put it on Chritensen/Kepa, yet it was his lack of effort let us down the first goal, he's doing it again, not even trying after 5 minutes on the field. Offensively we look better, but any other day we would not have saved the point, and to be honest WBA looked comfortable until their GK made a Kepa move and let us get on the score sheet. Once more, where are our fit players? No Zouma and Chilwell in the team, unfit again? We could have a 40 men team and still failed to pick a first 11, with the way injury is going. Are we training too hard, or just fragile? F* knows.

 

If we’d gone on to lose 3-0, I’d agree with you. But think ‘disgusting performance’ is a bit ott after they repaired the damage in the second half. Think they deserve some credit - not saying we should be happy - that they came back to get a point. 

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27 minutes ago, The Brit said:

If we’d gone on to lose 3-0, I’d agree with you. But think ‘disgusting performance’ is a bit ott after they repaired the damage in the second half. Think they deserve some credit - not saying we should be happy - that they came back to get a point. 

I agree. We showed some spirit to get back to 3-3 and bar two bad misses from Werner and Abraham we should have won.

Funny despite all the carryon about signings. Goals were scored by Mount, CHO and Abraham...

No surprise that we looked a billion times better with a winger on. Callum changed the game. Before then we had 4 players all playing in the same space and we weren't stretching West Brom at all. 

Frank looked for a long time today like a guy with a new shiny set of golf clubs and all the gear and no idea when to use which one. Even bringing on Giroud for Silva felt like he was just pulling things out of the air rather than a guy with a plan to use them all. 

But we scrapped a point which is more than we might have mustered previously. Mason Mount the best player again. He just gets better and better. We'll build better connection as a lineup and improve more and more. 

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28 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Mendy and Chilwell haven’t started a league game yet, so that’s another two major issues at the back hopefully solved 

Don't disagree with you, but you first said that we are a team with new players and making changes, which I take as meaning that it will take time to gel. And I point out that the line that is supposedly used to play together is the one letting us down. We can blame Frank, but if Alonso and Silva had not had a brain fart we could be talking about how we had cruised there. To me, it looks like the opponents always run more and want the win more, and that's just not acceptable. The way WBA closed on our players looked like prime Barsa, and that is just because our players play in a casual manner. The first and second halfs were like watching two different teams.

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1 minute ago, Spiller86 said:

I agree. We showed some spirit to get back to 3-3 and bar two bad misses from Werner and Abraham we should have won.

Funny despite all the carryon about signings. Goals were scored by Mount, CHO and Abraham...

No surprise that we looked a billion times better with a winger on. Callum changed the game. Before then we had 4 players all playing in the same space and we weren't stretching West Brom at all. 

Frank looked for a long time today like a guy with a new shiny set of golf clubs and all the gear and no idea when to use which one. Even bringing on Giroud for Silva felt like he was just pulling things out of the air rather than a guy with a plan to use them all. 

But we scrapped a point which is more than we might have mustered previously. Mason Mount the best player again. He just gets better and better. We'll build better connection as a lineup and improve more and more. 

I agree with you mostly but not with the bit in bold. Even you mention the three clear chances we had after going down 1-0, so we were stretching them and creating good opportunities.  I thought we were outplaying them. The game plan seemed to be working... but for amateur defensive mistakes that we've seen so many times before. We can change the defenders, but even new, seasoned players are making them on a Chelsea shirt!

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Literally saved by the academy today! (Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Abraham)

I actually thought first half, Mount was our only good player and that goal was deserved for him. He was the only one making things happen. Hudson-Odoi was brilliant when he came on and that should certainly earn him a slot in our starting 11 for the next couple games hopefully. He will start against Spurs but he wants to be starting league games and today, he showed what quality he possesses. That should shut down any chances of him leaving this transfer window.

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4 hours ago, TrueBlueSeaFC87 said:

My biggest complaint is with us constantly playing sideways and backwards.  When I play pick up football I NEVER think about passing backwards (almost to a flaw).  How can professional footballers be so afraid to play foward?

To think before Barca with Pep in charge and now with City it's all about possession, possession, possession starting with the keeper; for some teams like City it works for others they don't have the players with the confidence to settle on the ball or move it quickly enough around the opponents press....remember the good old days when the goalkeeper would hoof the ball up the pitch from a goal kick trying to find the CF ...now its all poncing around with the keeper and the defenders before any action starts...zzzz

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I think it's fairly obvious from our previous 4 games that we need natural wingers to offer us width, Lampard has been playing the likes of Mount & Havertz in the front 3 whose game is more Centrally biased. The plan is clearly for the fullbacks to offer us width which is leaving huge gaps for our CB's to cover every time we lose the ball and the fullbacks are caught high up the pitch. 

Lampard needs to revert back to basics and play CHO and Werner (until Pulisic is fit) wide to stretch defences and not have the fullbacks commit themselves too far forward. 

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3 hours ago, ozboy said:

Reece James is an imperfect full back. He looks great in many ways and played some excellent passes and one fantastic cross but he did not go beyond the opposition full back once  the vast majority of his passes were simple infield back passes. 

I’m glad someone else noticed this. I thought I was dreaming, watching him do this over and over, playing the ball backwards. Did any of his crosses find anyone? He mistimed one I remember that turned into a shot. Otherwise, asleep at the back for their goals. Almost like he doesn’t want to get involved as a defender. Expected more from him. 

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31 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I’m glad someone else noticed this. I thought I was dreaming, watching him do this over and over, playing the ball backwards. Did any of his crosses find anyone? He mistimed one I remember that turned into a shot. Otherwise, asleep at the back for their goals. Almost like he doesn’t want to get involved as a defender. Expected more from him. 

He was robbed of 2 assists today.

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3 hours ago, RMH said:

I agree with you mostly but not with the bit in bold. Even you mention the three clear chances we had after going down 1-0, so we were stretching them and creating good opportunities.  I thought we were outplaying them. The game plan seemed to be working... but for amateur defensive mistakes that we've seen so many times before. We can change the defenders, but even new, seasoned players are making them on a Chelsea shirt!

That's a fair enough point. For me, those two first half chances came from two good individual moments (Mount's turn and James' cross) rather than a clear game plan. 

Now that isn't all on Frank though, these guys are still getting used to playing together. But it does seem to me there were lots of guys trying to get into the box and not a lot of connection to get the ball to them. Again we say that it is all individual mistakes but when that keeps happening and the players are different. I'm not so sure. 

For me, this team is crying out for Giroud to provide a focal point and bring all the others together. It continues to boggle my mind that after saving our year last season he has to fight his way from the bench again. 

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2 hours ago, Socrates said:

 

I’m glad someone else noticed this. I thought I was dreaming, watching him do this over and over, playing the ball backwards. Did any of his crosses find anyone? He mistimed one I remember that turned into a shot. Otherwise, asleep at the back for their goals. Almost like he doesn’t want to get involved as a defender. Expected more from him. 

Playing the ball backwards is a game plan thing in my view. We've been stuck in this awful U Shape passing around the opposition defence ever since Sarri joined. Goes out wide to the full back and then he passes backwards and we go out to the otherside.

Reece was rocks and diamonds today. Got caught out for two of the three goals (first one I'll forgive because he was isolated as Christensen was ball watching and was out of position)

He also put in a superb cross for Tammy and critically made the cross field pass to make space ahead of the second goal. 

He's still young but he has an awful lot of promise at wingback and in midfield.

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Well let me get the blindingly obvious out of the way first. That kit is horrible and we should never be 3 down nor happy with a point against a side that will get relegated at the end of the season.

I was unhappy with Christensen more than any of the other defenders picked to start when the line up came out and yet he was, by far and away, our best defender today. Give him a break (me included).

Big a fan of James as I am he was terrible. One good cross is all he managed, defended woefully for the first goal, kept them onside for the key third. His corners were worse than Willian.

Alonso was awful. Silva was rusty.

As bad as those defensive mistakes were, tammy and Werner missing first half sitters we as bad and as damaging. They were both really poor, even though Tammy popped up at the end with the third.

Mount played well, his goal was Lampard esc, give him and break. 

CHO did well when he came on, took his goal well. Give him a break.

West Brom are dross and destined for the drop. We handed them their goals and they created nothing else. We should be ashamed and embarrassed by this result. Title contenders...yeah right.

Entertaining game has to be said though.

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11 hours ago, Jangz said:

It was too soon for silva.. should never have started..

I thought Silva was okay beyond the Stevie Me impersonation. The criticism seems a bit over the top. Very good on the ball as well.

10 hours ago, Nibs said:

Strange to pick out Christensen today when he was the pick of our defenders.

Best of a bad bunch today. I am not at all a fan of him but he was okay. If you were being super critical you could say he was ball watching for the first goal and left James isolated, but he would be a long way down the list of blame, behind James and Alonso but also Kovacic who should have fouled as soon as he was caught wrong side after the initial header.

For me our defensive issues remain structural. We are way too reliant on our wingbacks in attack which often leaves us with only two players behind the ball. We looked much more stable when Kante and Dave were further back in the second half and CHO provided width on the left. 

My final thought is from the always excellent Get French Football News who have hit the nail on the head.

Screenshot_20200927-151455_Twitter.jpg

Edited by Spiller86
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Frank will be our best manager, his heart is Chelsea his head has to be too. He wants to beat Tottenham.

christianson should never play again , Zouma and Tomari are better. ( frank Mistake)

Kante is class in front of the backs ((Frank mistake)

Alonzo has gone (rather have emmerson) (frank mistake)

Haverets (However you spell it) is class just cant defend ( frank working on this)

Werner is class (not use to pace of English game or his position (frank working on)

hudson Odoi sorry wont turn up on a wet night at Millwall (get rid)

Jorginhio (get rid why our passing is so slow)

Kepa (someone was on the fiddle aint worth two bob)

Loftus Cheek (same wont turn up on a wet night at millwall, no heart)

Aspi (a spainard who is our leader, biggest heart in the club at present though he moans alot)

James nice bloke though Lamperty was better in speed, crossing going foward and defending, someone got this wrong my gut feeling is Jody morris.

W e  have the best player in the premiership even better than Hazard in Pulisic though he is a sick note. To come back

a new left back that  i feel will be our making in Chillwell.

frank is learning and i have trust in him, believe remember  6-0 at Rothetham

Only my opinion, i aint a football manager.

 

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Might be controversial, but Reece james should not be our starter. Azbi should be, as at least azbi can defend. Too many times Reece has looked suspect when defending and it is hurting us.

 

And it’s all good attacking but as I keep saying you won’t do anything in the league if you can’t defend.

 

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8 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

We've been stuck in this awful U Shape passing around the opposition defence ever since Sarri joined. Goes out wide to the full back and then he passes backwards and we go out to the otherside.

i thought i had seen it all, but this is a new one. one (of the many) things sarri was absolutely slaughtered for was that he wanted everything to go through jorginho for better or worse. the u-shape started with conte's satanic 3-4-3, when there were no deep lying midfield player who could receive and pass the ball quickly through the lines. ironically, whether people think jorginho is the answer or not, we tend to play past or beside the midfield without him because kante nor kova are good enough at the fetch-and-pass game. this in turn makes our possessions turn into a u-shape.

Edited by opinionsarelike
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I understand the U concept and think this is why Kovacic got POTS as he ran through the middle and though not always effective at least created some excitement.

The U concept is relevant and at times becomes a V as the full backs move into space down the wing and the CBs hit the long diagonal.  

Personally would like to see the ball kicked up field a few times to vary the play, we seem to readable to the opposition. 

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