The fact managers can get fined for giving their own opinion after the game, speaks volumes on how corrupt it all is.

1 minute ago, Mod said:

The fact managers can get fined for giving their own opinion after the game, speaks volumes on how corrupt it all is.

Fine and ban probably.

7 hours ago, charierre said:

Generally speaking, distance covered is a measure of closing down, opponents.  I've said previously I didn't see the match yesterday but the gist of what I have read is it is we were overrun all over the pitch. 

You are aware of the fact that prime Barca and also prime Bayern ran considerably less each single game than their opponents that got ran over on a daily basis? You usually have to run a lot if your opponent passes a lot - that indicator means jack **** on it‘s own.

And I call everybody out who says we did‘t put in the effort yesterday, sound like spoiled brats on here at times (not you specifically). We gifted them the first goal because Mendy made a huge blunder and conceded the second via free kick some minutes later - first should never happen but the latter can happen at times. Tough luck and unfortunately broke our morale but until then it wasn‘t a bad game from our side.

 

 

2 minutes ago, weetee said:

You are aware of the fact that prime Barca and also prime Bayern ran considerably less each single game than their opponents that got ran over on a daily basis? You usually have to run a lot if your opponent passes a lot - that indicator means jack **** on it‘s own.

And I call everybody out who says we did‘t put in the effort yesterday, sound like spoiled brats on here at times (not you specifically). We gifted them the first goal because Mendy made a huge blunder and conceded the second via free kick some minutes later - first should never happen but the latter can happen at times. Tough luck and unfortunately broke our morale but until then it wasn‘t a bad game from our side.

 

 

Barca we’re known for fast ball recovery. Note I did say I haven’t seen the game but nearly every report bu media and fans alike say we were overrun. I state again 1 km a man is massive!

Edited August 22, 20223 yr by charierre

1 minute ago, charierre said:

Barca we’re known for fast ball recovery

And that‘s what we did yesterday until Mendy broke our neck. But you didn‘t watch the game so it‘s probably a bit mood to discuss.

1 minute ago, weetee said:

And that‘s what we did yesterday until Mendy broke our neck. But you didn‘t watch the game so it‘s probably a bit mood to discuss.

We obviously didn’t do it well enough at 10.5 km less! Enough said on the point I’ve literally seen highlights of 2 mins and read text on here and the BBC whilst sat in an airport in Seville 

6 minutes ago, charierre said:

We obviously didn’t do it well enough at 10.5 km less! Enough said on the point I’ve literally seen highlights of 2 mins and read text on here and the BBC whilst sat in an airport in Seville 

Lol.
 

I‘ll check out our milage the next time we comfortably win and let you know. But going after the ShedEnd we may never win a game again under Tuchel so that may take a while.

9 hours ago, Valerie said:

 I would say most of our players have an above average talent, but that talent may be limited to one particular position. Play them in a different position and they're out of their depth. What would happen if we started playing everyone in their natural position, do we even have enough depth to field 11 players? Probably not, so the ideal situation is to have more versatile olayers. Tuchel is perhaps overestimating the versatility of his players, and sticking to a formation come what may - even if that's boring to watch or at worst suicidal.  I just can't figure out how Tuchel's mind works. He's clearly not a crap manager, he must see how some are underperforming, why doesn't he change things around (either in his starting line-up or quickly during the match) when he sees it's not working? Or does he think it IS working?

Apart from the few who have been at the same club for at least 5 years or so, every manager at every club inherits players they haven't bought. I'm certainly not advocating a managerial change - who would we bring in as a replacement? - but if giving him more time until he has a squad that's 99% his, means watching the same sort of football as the last one and a half or two seasons, I'm not looking forward to the near future. The odd great match won't be much comfort.

 

He won the CL with someone else's players, so we know they don't just all suck.  I am not expecting a CL win every year but I am expecting a comfortable top 4 finish.

But since he has started bring in his own players and selling players the team has just gotten worse.  

I am not to the point where I think he can't turn it around but I am to where I feel things very quickly trending in the wrong direction and I am to where I don't feel like anyone else  should or could shoulder greater blame for the Leeds fiasco.

Everyone doesn't just start sucking at once, nearly of the players have played well elsewhere including in the EPL.  Connor Gallagher was Palace's player of the year, but the second Tuchel fields him he suddenly can't handle playing in the EPL.

Further more it's making me question other things such as the Lukaku mistake.  

He has a chance to turn things around but I am going to be more critical of him.  I expected to be more competitive this year, not less.

I imagine if you'd been offered twice as many points as Liverpool had after 3 games you'd probably have taken it 🙂 

We might have had a bad game against Leeds, but at least we aren't sat on 2 points from games against Fulham, Palace and a United side in some disarray, (albeit much better this evening).

Onwards and upwards !

7 minutes ago, Valpo said:

 

He won the CL with someone else's players, so we know they don't just all suck.  I am not expecting a CL win every year but I am expecting a comfortable top 4 finish.

But since he has started bring in his own players and selling players the team has just gotten worse.  

I am not to the point where I think he can't turn it around but I am to where I feel things very quickly trending in the wrong direction and I am to where I don't feel like anyone else  should or could shoulder greater blame for the Leeds fiasco.

Everyone doesn't just start sucking at once, nearly of the players have played well elsewhere including in the EPL.  Connor Gallagher was Palace's player of the year, but the second Tuchel fields him he suddenly can't handle playing in the EPL.

Further more it's making me question other things such as the Lukaku mistake.  

He has a chance to turn things around but I am going to be more critical of him.  I expected to be more competitive this year, not less.

What signings did he make so far though? I think it‘s very save to assume that Lukaku wasn‘t his idea - at all. Even if others here may disagree I think of all those three new ones this season already showed their worth but either way three games is no base for a fair assessment.

Tammy I will give you, although I personally don‘t tgink he would have made much difference last year (except in our checkbook). Werner, had a lot of bad luck in his two years but I doubt anybody here would say he had the ceiling necessary for us to compete with the very best as a starter and rather chose more minutes for less money (in a wc year). Did I miss someone?

 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

So apparently Todd is working on getting him Gordon, Auba, Fofana and now Milans Leao.

Hopefully De Jong as well eh?

6 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

Hopefully De Jong as well eh?

Hah imagine Nevilles head if Todd decided "screw it" and landed all 5 of those in the last week.

12 hours ago, CFCCAN said:

No one can figure TT out at the moment Val, not even himself. Maybe the temporary dual role is too much for him; advisor to Todd one day, coach the next, interviews in between resulting in car crash style planning for a game.  Everyone could see what was happening after 5 minutes on Sunday, Leeds pushed our wing backs back and then like a herd of elephants went straight down the middle stampeding over our 2 midfielders.  Both Gallagher and Jorginho were simply crushed. When they received the ball they were pounced upon by 2 or 3 Leeds players that why Leeds were at our defenders in quick succession time after time, yet TT did nothing to help them out by shoring up that midfield, which became the gateway to Leeds success.   What game was he watching when he comes out with a statement that we were the better team....he's losing the plot and the pressure is on to get results. 

Spot on

Just listened to his post match interview, what he said was we were better team after 20+ minutes, which was true but didn't impact the game much. What worried me was why we stopped competing after 20 something minutes, lack of fitness or players got bored? In hindsight, could have picked RLC or Carney instead of Gallagher, but most of us didn't have a problem with the selection when it came out. He should have made personnel change at HT if not earlier , you need time for players to get into the game and make an impact. In a way, I do feel for him ( like with those before him), as a manager you can't control players who does suicidal stuffs on the field ( e.g. Mendy's dribbling), or attackers who can't stay onside to save their life. Only thing he could control is pick the players who are motivated and in decent forms, and drill them harder in training.

I do like the "heard of elephants" description @CFCCAN . Jorgi and Gallagher got destroyed in the two there.

Oh for 2 centerbacks who can play with quality as a two like JT, Ricky, Cahill, Alex etc. And a defensive midfielder or two who could destroy and pass a ball accurately long and short range, like Essien, Ballack and Maka. Leaders and physically dominating players.

why o why have we spent 170mill, and could go as high as 400mill, without bringing in at least one midfield destroyer who can also pass a ball long and short distances?

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

I do like the "heard of elephants" description @CFCCAN . Jorgi and Gallagher got destroyed in the two there.

For the most part, Gallagher got double/triple-teamed and Jorginho was left well alone. That's because Leeds, like every other team, realised that Jorginho has no offensive contribution to be considered a threat.

Re-watch the first half in particular, where Leeds players backed off to mark and contest the pass recipients while leaving Jorginho on the ball. They were banking (correctly) that Jorginho would not run with the ball and would turn backwards if there was no immediate option. I'm not sure if that's tactical instruciton or just his inclination but it really breaks out ability to play past a press.

The other issue is our complete lack of height. There's no option to go direct (to feet) to break the press when the front three are Sterling, Havertz and Mount, who lack the strength to hold off a defender. They need long diagonals that they can run down.

4 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

For the most part, Gallagher got double/triple-teamed and Jorginho was left well alone. That's because Leeds, like every other team, realised that Jorginho has no offensive contribution to be considered a threat.

Re-watch the first half in particular, where Leeds players backed off to mark and contest the pass recipients while leaving Jorginho on the ball. They were banking (correctly) that Jorginho would not run with the ball and would turn backwards if there was no immediate option. I'm not sure if that's tactical instruciton or just his inclination but it really breaks out ability to play past a press.

The other issue is our complete lack of height. There's no option to go direct (to feet) to break the press when the front three are Sterling, Havertz and Mount, who lack the strength to hold off a defender. They need long diagonals that they can run down.

Auba won't help us to go direct.

22 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

For the most part, Gallagher got double/triple-teamed and Jorginho was left well alone. That's because Leeds, like every other team, realised that Jorginho has no offensive contribution to be considered a threat.

Re-watch the first half in particular, where Leeds players backed off to mark and contest the pass recipients while leaving Jorginho on the ball. They were banking (correctly) that Jorginho would not run with the ball and would turn backwards if there was no immediate option. I'm not sure if that's tactical instruciton or just his inclination but it really breaks out ability to play past a press.

The other issue is our complete lack of height. There's no option to go direct (to feet) to break the press when the front three are Sterling, Havertz and Mount, who lack the strength to hold off a defender. They need long diagonals that they can run down.

This. I expected Tuchel to bring Borja 2nd half for this purpose but he was injured 

17 hours ago, charierre said:

I commented on this myself last night. Didn't see the match yesterday but a km per man across the pitch is like having an extra player. Working hard off the ball is the basics and goes back to the old quote 'Hard work will beat skill when skill doesn't work hard enough!'

Yes running more is good but I am not sure running more will solve our problem against leeds. We actually pressed leeds very well and got some very good chances out of it. But we were also struggling against leeds crazy press. So it was a crazy game where both team created chances. Then they got gift from Mendy which make the game even harder. 

So like Tuchel said if we scored from the few chances that we got early it would have been a different game. Or if we can actually bypass their press, leeds won't be able to keep their crazy press for long. But it was clear they got tons of good stuff by pressing us. 

 

 

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

For the most part, Gallagher got double/triple-teamed and Jorginho was left well alone. That's because Leeds, like every other team, realised that Jorginho has no offensive contribution to be considered a threat.

Re-watch the first half in particular, where Leeds players backed off to mark and contest the pass recipients while leaving Jorginho on the ball. They were banking (correctly) that Jorginho would not run with the ball and would turn backwards if there was no immediate option. I'm not sure if that's tactical instruciton or just his inclination but it really breaks out ability to play past a press.

The other issue is our complete lack of height. There's no option to go direct (to feet) to break the press when the front three are Sterling, Havertz and Mount, who lack the strength to hold off a defender. They need long diagonals that they can run down.

Leeds had a very good game plan knowing the way to take us apart is through the middle, both with and without the ball. As you say they were all over Gallagher the second he got the ball, while standing of Jorginho to mark space, holding position as a midfield 4. The fact Tuchel didnt see this (or chose not to do anything) was worrying, within 20 minutes it was obvious we needed an extra man in the middle to compete, we had the players on the pitch so go to a back 4 (I know, mindblowing stuff Tommy) put Reece ad RB, move RLC into the middle giving us equality and the height you mention. Its not exactly rocket science now is it, its a simple tweak any manager could and would make yet we plodded on getting over run.

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

For the most part, Gallagher got double/triple-teamed and Jorginho was left well alone.

So much confusion, first people say Jorginho can't do anything when he's pressured by multiple players but now this theory suggests that he wasn't pressured at all, sad for Gallagher!

I watched city play twice and it I kinda remind me of my old fm tactic

They basically play 4231 defensively but offensively this is the interesting part 

Haaland 

Cancelo - Foden - Gundo - KDB - Silva

Rodri - walker 

By pushing walker into midfield it allow Haaland to play more like a 9 rather a false 9. There is slight problem though, you can tell that Rodri was on his limit defensively. Fernandinho would have been brilliant in this role but not rodri.

IMO this system could be an  interesting option for us especially for Reece. 

Borja 

Cucurella - Mount - Kai - Kova - Sterling 

Kante - James

James will be brilliant playing this midfield hybrid role. The biggest problem is kante. Once he is injured, I really don't know how to replace him. 

 

Once we get Fofana ( looks to be a when not an if), surely we could do a back 4 of:

James Fofana KK Cucurella

Silva is likely to miss out, but he isn't going to play all 38 games anyway.

Free up a man in the midfield to make it 3, somehow we could accommodate Jorginho in without looking so thin

433 worked like a dream for me in FM, make it happen Mr Tuchel 😁

 

 

49 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Once we get Fofana ( looks to be a when not an if), surely we could do a back 4 of:

James Fofana KK Cucurella

Silva is likely to miss out, but he isn't going to play all 38 games anyway.

Free up a man in the midfield to make it 3, somehow we could accommodate Jorginho in without looking so thin

433 worked like a dream for me in FM, make it happen Mr Tuchel 😁

 

 

 

3 new players (1 new to the league and 2 young) in a back four setup. I'll save you the heartache and tell how that's going to go - not well at all. Tuchel can't reload a save unfortunately. 😄

 

I just don't understand Tuchel's vision for the team at the moment. It seems his blueprint has been to play 3atb since he came and we've seen we can compete with any team in the world when we're on it.

Especially the best teams in the world when we play 3atb. Yet his tactically inflexibility has made him predictable for the teams below us. It's easy to know how we'll line up because he very rarely mixes it up for the lower table games.

Moving back to the blueprint, clearly he sees Mount and Havertz as key players to the way he wants to play and they are staples as they combined to win the champions league. He identified Werner was the weak point of the trident so he began playing an actual target man in between these two number 10s. That didn't work out so he moved Havertz alongside Lukaku to play as a 2 with Mount just behind. Again that too didn't work.

He then brought a dynamic forward like Sterling to play through the middle of Kai and Mount we assumed. Yet despite what the official line up says he's basically playing Sterling and Kai as a 2 with Mount behind. Which to me doesn't really make sense, essentially he's not playing a single one of the three attackers in their most optimal position. 

I will back Tuchel for as long as I can but I can see why questions are being asked. Yes when we play a 4atb we look vulnerable, but there has to be another solution than playing 4-5 (RLC, Sterling, Havertz, Gallagher) outfield players out of their primary position. Despite how good RLC looked vs Spurs that was not the right call for a pressing Leeds side.  

As it stands I don't think Tuchel's positioning of Kai has helped him much and I would like to see him go back to what has worked in the past just one striker and two supporting players not the other way around despite what the formation says on paper.