Official Thomas Tuchel *Now Sacked*

[andy]

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

He's still too skinny 

and shouldn't use the phrase "I am excited to work with young guys" - other than that he is perfect 

[Munkunku]

1 minute ago, andy said:

and shouldn't use the phrase "I am excited to work with young guys" - other than that he is perfect 

I thought Val had that phrase trademarked? 

[just]

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Football is a fickle game, and I'm definitely guilty of being fickle. But only with Lampard, I stuck by Mourinho, Ancelotti, Di Matteo and never wanted them sacked. 

But you do have a very simplistic view of football. The word "physical" appears in about 90% of your posts on here. 

You're like a feather floating in the breeze with your your opinions on Kante too.

[abister1]

7 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

I was enjoying your post until I got to this bit. I’m 33 you f**ker! 

🤣🤣 Only in length of service. Generals don't have to be 60 year olds

😜

[Gol15]

11 minutes ago, Brutos said:

In the modern game(modern world) its all data driven not just "Oo he looks good" its all data driven.

Listen to Tuchel post match press he already knew how many recovries we had in that short space of time.

In my job if I persent to C-level I have to provide data/stats to backup anything I say.

I noticed that and yes I know what you mean...

The irony is that sometimes when I just said something more casually, someone automatically said PROVE IT fully knowing that even if I did it wouldn't matter to him because he just feels in a certain way about the subject and that's all that matters to him.

 

[Slojo]

Just now, Gol15 said:

I noticed that and yes I know what you mean...

The irony is that sometimes when I just said something more casually, someone automatically said PROVE IT fully knowing that even if I did it wouldn't matter to him because he just feels in a certain way about the subject and that's all that matters to him.

 

Analytics are not meaningless, but they're not that important. They're used in football for managers to get a good perception, but managers will go by what they see in training and on the pitch. 

You have a big tendency to go overboard with the graphs and charts and whatnot. Like Havertz for example, the sad reality is, Havertz has been crap so far. Still time for him to improve but no amount of graphs or charts is going to prove that wrong. And the thing is with data, it can be manipulated on purpose to suit an agenda. 

[Munkunku]

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I noticed that and yes I know what you mean...

The irony is that sometimes when I just said something more casually, someone automatically said PROVE IT fully knowing that even if I did it wouldn't matter to him because he just feels in a certain way about the subject and that's all that matters to him.

 

Instead of posting graphs and YouTube clips maybe you should record a song and dance routine about it? Think outside the box!

Edited January 28, 2021 by Munkworth

[Gol15]

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

Analytics are not meaningless, but they're not that important. They're used in football for managers to get a good perception, but managers will go by what they see in training and on the pitch. 

You have a big tendency to go overboard with the graphs and charts and whatnot. Like Havertz for example, the sad reality is, Havertz has been crap so far. Still time for him to improve but no amount of graphs or charts is going to prove that wrong. And the thing is with data, it can be manipulated on purpose to suit an agenda. 

People go overboard with their own agenda without having anything else but their agenda to talk about too. I haven't really posted a video in some time part from posting a bit about Bamba.

In the end of the day I have actually tried to use a lot of means just to say a simple thing: Player A isn't that bad, he can in fact for example, pass the ball. BUT NOT EVEN THAT WENT THROUGH.

Regarding Havertz, I compared him with Mount and statistically Mount isn't that much better than Kai (Mount got 3/4 assists from corners) but it doesn't matter anyway.
So when I tried to argue that people should look at the big picture - "Mount spent 50+ games last season and Kai just came so why not have some patience"... The answer is that Kai is just sh*t he can't even make a simple pass, he's basically Kezman/Bakayoko/*insert a flop here*...

This isn't me having an agenda, none of our players are in a good form part from CHO, but we expect someone new to automatically do a better job than some of our establish players... I went overboard yes, but you'll find only one instance where I really argued against our player and that was Christensen. Part from him I have backed our players.

[Kev56]

3 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

@abramovich

Interesting comments on Mount, 100% committed to CFC, plays with his heart and plays 100% every match.

Kante as a double 6, I know a 10 and 9 what is a 6 and a double 6, anyone know?

Interesting comments on Billy too, recognises his footballing brain, his clever first touch and positioning yet will need to see how he matches up to the physical level of the league. 

=12

[axman2526]

So if he has wanted Kante for ages and sees him as best as a double 6, who does he see as best to compliment him?

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So if he has wanted Kante for ages and sees him as best as a double 6, who does he see as best to compliment him?

You need to roll double 6 to start, start can also be known as begin. Begin if mispronounced aounds like big un, so fatty faulkes?

[bluehaze]

As one of the old guard on here what I would say about football then and now is same sport different game.  There's no point comparing the two everything has changed in society, technology etc. Young blokes love talking about tactics etc fair enough they have the platform to discuss things I have no problem with that but personally I'm not interested in that side of football. It probably stems from as a kid standing in the Shed you were either getting pushed from side to side or had someone like Peter Crouch with a busby on standing in front of you plus you were so far from the pitch so you wouldn't have a clue what the formation was.

 

[haviet1]

9 hours ago, Slojo said:

 I loved the whole Youth process but let’s be honest, it was a pipe dream, the last thing I wanted to be is like Arsenal, look how that project went under Wenger once the invincibles went and he started this new Youth project. 13 years and 3 F.A. Cups, that's it. Compare that to what we won during that period and if you would prefer to have Wenger I would want you institutionalised. 

 

Sad but true. Futbol has become an International business for decades now. To compete and win, you must have the cash to import the greatest talents around the globe. You can't simply pump out youth prospects from your own academies.

Messi and Barcelona is a one in 50 years happening. Just look at Dortmund, which known as a developing club, still need to import their 15, 16, 17 year old youths around the world (Dembele, Pulisic, Sancho, Reyna, Haarland, etc.)

[forbzy]

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Some fans think that Lampard wasn't a good enough manager to win football games for us. So they think the board has made the right decision.

Some fans think Lampard could have been that manager, but he needed more time. So they think the board has acted too quickly. 

Both of these are valid opinions. 

Winning matches = commercial reward. Not winning matches mean we slide as a club. We become worse. 

There seems to be a section of fans cropping up who think Lampard wasn't a good enough manager to win games, but wanted him to stay anyway because it was fun

I don't understand that approach. Supporting your club means you want them to win. You don't want to be embarrassed when you play Arsenal or Tottenham. You don't want to be a mid table club, or a Championship club. You continue to support the club if they are that, but that isn't what you want and you talk about "one day, we might be up there" "if we made this signing, it could change our season". 

 

 

I saw a few comments about the fact it was fun following the team under Lampard. However I didn't interpret them the same way. I think some of us fans enjoyed the fact that there was more connection with the team and manager again. That was mainly due to the fact that Frank was a long time servant to the club, and also that he gave a chance to a lot of players that had been with the club since they were kids. I am pretty sure none of us actually enjoying losing games, but we were also looking at this as a longer term project where there would inevitably be plenty of setbacks along the way.

To clarify many of us fans who were regulars during the 70's and 80's did witness an era when winning was sometimes a rarity, yet that doesn't mean it was no fun going to games. The atmosphere was obviously different back then, but expectations were too. The banter and laughter was as much a part of the match day experience, and sometimes we could appreciate a good performance from our limited players even when it didn't result in wins or glory.  In the modern game a lot of that has been lost, and it feels as though many fans cannot really enjoy the experience unless it involves trophies and glory.

Times have obviously changed and expectations are clearly different now for Chelsea. This is very much a different club to what we knew back then. But I think some of us older fans enjoyed the underdog status returning a bit with the transfer ban and use of the academy. With our board's limited patience the outcome earlier in the week was probably inevitable., but I still feel as though they could have given Frank until the end of the season. Sure we may have ended up midtable but would that be the end of the world for one season, just to provide a chance for a club legend to show he could turn things around? Anyway it wasn't to be and now we can focus on the future with Tuchel. I am still hopeful that the use of our talented younger players will continue under Tuchel, so at least hopefully that part of the project will continue. 

[strider6004]

6 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I saw a few comments about the fact it was fun following the team under Lampard. However I didn't interpret them the same way. I think some of us fans enjoyed the fact that there was more connection with the team and manager again. That was mainly due to the fact that Frank was a long time servant to the club, and also that he gave a chance to a lot of players that had been with the club since they were kids. I am pretty sure none of us actually enjoying losing games, but we were also looking at this as a longer term project where there would inevitably be plenty of setbacks along the way.

To clarify many of us fans who were regulars during the 70's and 80's did witness an era when winning was sometimes a rarity, yet that doesn't mean it was no fun going to games. The atmosphere was obviously different back then, but expectations were too. The banter and laughter was as much a part of the match day experience, and sometimes we could appreciate a good performance from our limited players even when it didn't result in wins or glory.  In the modern game a lot of that has been lost, and it feels as though many fans cannot really enjoy the experience unless it involves trophies and glory.

Times have obviously changed and expectations are clearly different now for Chelsea. This is very much a different club to what we knew back then. But I think some of us older fans enjoyed the underdog status returning a bit with the transfer ban and use of the academy. With our board's limited patience the outcome earlier in the week was probably inevitable., but I still feel as though they could have given Frank until the end of the season. Sure we may have ended up midtable but would that be the end of the world for one season, just to provide a chance for a club legend to show he could turn things around? Anyway it wasn't to be and now we can focus on the future with Tuchel. I am still hopeful that the use of our talented younger players will continue under Tuchel, so at least hopefully that part of the project will continue. 

We may have ended up in a relegation fight.

For me Frank was struggling whether that was temporary due to fixture congestion or more deep seated in not knowing how to get the best out of the squad, I'm not sure.

I think Frank made an error of judgement in letting Barkley go and probably banking on Kai and Ziyech to start providing a spark which has not developed yet. 

It remains to be seen whether TT can do that, though as opposed to Frank and Jody we are getting a team to work on the squad.

[forbzy]

1 minute ago, Strider6003 said:

We may have ended up in a relegation fight.

For me Frank was struggling whether that was temporary due to fixture congestion or more deep seated in not knowing how to get the best out of the squad, I'm not sure.

I think Frank made an error of judgement in letting Barkley go and probably banking on Kai and Ziyech to start providing a spark which has not developed yet. 

It remains to be seen whether TT can do that, though as opposed to Frank and Jody we are getting a team to work on the squad.

I agree that it was a mistake to let Barkley go. He would have been a very useful squad member, especially in light of the struggles that Havertz has had. However even with our poor run of form I could not see a relegation battle this season. I am not sure that any of the bottom 3 will make it to 30 points at the moment.

[strider6004]

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

I agree that it was a mistake to let Barkley go. He would have been a very useful squad member, especially in light of the struggles that Havertz has had. However even with our poor run of form I could not see a relegation battle this season. I am not sure that any of the bottom 3 will make it to 30 points at the moment.

Our points per game in the last 8 games is 1.00 the same as Brighton who sit one place above the bottom three. 

[Barry Bridges]

Weird feeligns when Im being told going up 5 points on our top 4 rivals in half a season was a task too far......but we should seriously contemplate dropping 17+ more points than the relegation sitting teams in the same time frame....?

Edited January 28, 2021 by Barry Bridges

[Nibs]

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Analytics are not meaningless, but they're not that important. They're used in football for managers to get a good perception, but managers will go by what they see in training and on the pitch. 

You have a big tendency to go overboard with the graphs and charts and whatnot. Like Havertz for example, the sad reality is, Havertz has been crap so far. Still time for him to improve but no amount of graphs or charts is going to prove that wrong. And the thing is with data, it can be manipulated on purpose to suit an agenda. 

Absolutely nailed it there @Slojo

 

[abister1]

Lampard is a Legend here and a very intelligent man. 

The so called mistakes he made, I don't even regard a huge issue because they are normal I'd think for that learning curve as a newbie manager. 

The reason I was opposed to him managing us when the rumours started and even after he got appointed isn't even that I didn't want him to have any dent to his Legend status as some feared may happen, if and when the inevitable poor performances and subsequent sacking came.

It was simply the same reason 99% of us would have been very unhappy maybe even outraged if a guy with the same exact managerial qualification that wasn't called Frank Lampard was put in charge. "Not good enough for Chelsea that's all."

I think some of us underestimate how big a club we are on the global stage. Forget the fact that we have not won much consistently in the recent past years, but when we talk about successful clubs globally, and names the likes of Real, Bayern, Barca to Liverpool, Manchester United, the Milan giants are brought up, somewhere and someplace, someone will be adding Chelsea to that mix. 

That's how big we are and the company we f****** belong in. 

That's who we are. 

 

 

[strider6004]

3 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Lampard is a Legend here and a very intelligent man. 

The so called mistakes he made, I don't even regard a huge issue because they are normal I'd think for that learning curve as a newbie manager. 

The reason I was opposed to him managing us when the rumours started and even after he got appointed isn't even that I didn't want him to have any dent to his Legend status as some feared may happen, if and when the inevitable poor performances and subsequent sacking came.

It was simply the same reason 99% of us would have been very unhappy maybe even outraged if a guy with the same exact managerial qualification that wasn't called Frank Lampard was put in charge. "Not good enough for Chelsea that's all."

I think some of us underestimate how big a club we are on the global stage. Forget the fact that we have not won much consistently in the recent past years, but when we talk about successful clubs globally, and names the likes of Real, Bayern, Barca to Liverpool, Manchester United, the Milan giants are brought up, somewhere and someplace, someone will be adding Chelsea to that mix. 

That's how big we are and the company we f****** belong in. 

That's who we are. 

On that point if we look back, how many managers would have taken the job with a side needing rebuilding and no a transfer ban?

I don't recall many if any other names being in the frame.

[Wearyourblue]

"On that point if we look back, how many managers would have taken the job with a side needing rebuilding and no a transfer ban?

I don't recall many if any other names being in the frame."

Many would take it looking to prove something, but none of the top ones. It's hard for anyone to base their reputation on a season without much input. For someone in Frank's shoes though it helps. He's probably in a better spot to take a job with a bottom half premier league club next year, than he was before working with us. He needs more work on the tactics of when he's got the better squad.

[RMH]

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

People go overboard with their own agenda without having anything else but their agenda to talk about too. I haven't really posted a video in some time part from posting a bit about Bamba.

In the end of the day I have actually tried to use a lot of means just to say a simple thing: Player A isn't that bad, he can in fact for example, pass the ball. BUT NOT EVEN THAT WENT THROUGH.

Regarding Havertz, I compared him with Mount and statistically Mount isn't that much better than Kai (Mount got 3/4 assists from corners) but it doesn't matter anyway.
So when I tried to argue that people should look at the big picture - "Mount spent 50+ games last season and Kai just came so why not have some patience"... The answer is that Kai is just sh*t he can't even make a simple pass, he's basically Kezman/Bakayoko/*insert a flop here*...

This isn't me having an agenda, none of our players are in a good form part from CHO, but we expect someone new to automatically do a better job than some of our establish players... I went overboard yes, but you'll find only one instance where I really argued against our player and that was Christensen. Part from him I have backed our players.

Look, I’m not against stats and I use them a fair bit in my job, but if you tell me that stats show that bit to be true, then I’m basically ditching them and start using magic. Statistics are great when used properly and create some expectations of the reality, but there is always that p<0.05 to make them significant.

[abister1]

I agree with you and like I said elsewhere there was never a serious clamour for anyone else cos it seemed the management had been railroaded down the Lampard route by a concerted media campaign and fan clamour. 

Note all this started not after Sarri left but as soon as Lampard got the job with Derby. There was this theme of future Chelsea manager that pervaded the airwaves driven by, surprise surprise, his English buddies in the media and it had a strong English bias to it which the sacking also has seen. 

If I was a cynic, I would say part of the ridicule Sarri was put through as well as never being fully accepted by some part of the fan base was a symptom of this. 

Let's not act ignorant to the fact that the Chelsea board and management read and watch the same news we do and like it or not, they will be swayed due to the perceived desire of the fans for Lampard to be the man in charge. And that's where we should credit them cause they listen. The only difference being that, as an element of the club directly involved with making CFC a success, they will be less sentimental than fans and hence we now hear there were a few not in support of handing the job to Lamps at the time too. 

I'm gonna make bold and say if Lampard was not in football management we would still have had a football manager that season would we not have? 

So many people would have taken on the job if given a chance, not that they were given and declined. In fact, the club got sentimental and went with Lampard and once he was in the frame, with his Legend status, no one else stood a chance. 

[General]

2 hours ago, abister1 said:

🤣🤣 Only in length of service. Generals don't have to be 60 year olds

😜

speak for yourself Ill be 58 this year m8!