22 minutes ago, Jangz said:

If we are on our game and not screwed by poor refs we can beat them.. they have only beaten us this season on penalties .

Indeed. That was before the sanctions really screwed with us and our exit from the CL though.

Even if we do magically show up and look out best then there are the refs and VAR.

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

If new ownership wants to focus on sustainability then they would keep a hold of the academy prospects and get rid of the leeches on our wage bill who either offer nothing or want to leave. 

I think this is something a lot of people aren’t considering. Being a successful team doesn’t have to rely on signing the biggest mercenaries going, we just need to sign the right players and keep hold of our academy products. When people asked for this about 10 years ago we just didn’t have the players for it but now our academy is producing top players.

50 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

I think this is something a lot of people aren’t considering. Being a successful team doesn’t have to rely on signing the biggest mercenaries going, we just need to sign the right players and keep hold of our academy products. When people asked for this about 10 years ago we just didn’t have the players for it but now our academy is producing top players.

I think we have some great academy players, several of who will be ready to join the first team squad next season. Most likely candidates for consideration from current loanees would be Gallagher, Gilmour, Broja, Maatsen, Colwill, Ampadu, and Sterling. If 3 or 4 of these players are deemed good enough to be part of the first team squad next season that will provide some useful depth. I would consider keeping some of the returning loanees with the club, and then sending out some of the next wave of academy prospects on loan (e.g. Hall, Simons, Soonsup-Bell, Vale). That being said I think we will still need a few experienced signings to blend with our youth.

On 01/05/2022 at 16:19, axman2526 said:

Don't let @Dean here you say that...

Different manager same old same old. Players decided when they have had enough and don't care anymore, and so it has come to pass here again. 

Been garbage since we got knocked out of the CL. Our reaction to going behind was an "oh whatever who cares" one. No desire, no grit, no cares.

Our defense is a mess, Mendy very rarely does anything positive anymore, and oye forward line gets worse every game.

Players have clearly downed tools, well most of them Silva is as professional as ever.

😂 @axman2526 

actually I did tweak my views somewhat in recent replies to you. Would maintain though that this is very circular. If you think Roman leaving had an impact on the club, the players, the manager, their morale … then it has had an impact on the results too. Therefore the arguments of the  “if roman were here, he’d fire tuchel based on our current form” type are moot unless you think Roman leaving has had no impact.

Broadly, I’m not very optimistic about these next few years though so that’s certainly changed. When you have a regime change this big, there’s bound to be a lot of fallout and there’s no place for that if you want to chase titles. Decent chance TT will be gone amid this fallout, and we will be worse off for it. 

27 minutes ago, Dean said:

😂 @axman2526 

actually I did tweak my views somewhat in recent replies to you. Would maintain though that this is very circular. If you think Roman leaving had an impact on the club, the players, the manager, their morale … then it has had an impact on the results too. Therefore the arguments of the  “if roman were here, he’d fire tuchel based on our current form” type are moot unless you think Roman leaving has had no impact.

Broadly, I’m not very optimistic about these next few years though so that’s certainly changed. When you have a regime change this big, there’s bound to be a lot of fallout and there’s no place for that if you want to chase titles. Decent chance TT will be gone amid this fallout, and we will be worse off for it. 

Maybe good old Bruce Arena needs a job.

 

4 hours ago, Amputechture said:

 

'Way better squad' argument is used as well while Pep was sitting on Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Yaya, KDB. And neither Pep, nor Klopp had to deal with this level of injuries and off field issues. 

For me what separate us to pool n city is that they monster players at their peak who can drag the team almost by themselves (kdb, salah, etc2) . So even when they make few changes as long as their big gun play they can still get result. 

We used to have that with the like of Hazard, costa n fab. But right now the only wc player that we have is a waning Kante. Our best players (ignoring cb) right now are Mount, kai, james, chil,kova n waning kante. Only Chil n kova are at their peak years, the rest are still in their early 20s. Not sure any of them are at wc level.The most annoying part this season is out of those 6 only 2 are playing week in week out. Kova, James, chil, kante have been in n out  due to injuries. 

Edited May 3, 20224 yr by Bob stark

15 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Jorgino and  Kova are both sublime passers, just seem they are coached not to…

Coached not to? 

 

21 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

TT certainly playing a big part in this. I get the players have had a long season,  but again, better squad management would mitigate against that.

Saul was just looking like he was adapting to the pace of the EPL and getting into some form, then bang, dropped off the face of the earth. Kenedy was back, had a sub appearance, the bang, never seen again. Barkley played a few at the tail end of last year, and looked above RLC, then bang, he was gone.

Now - I am not saying Those 3 are the answers to our prayers,  but a more effective use of the squad would have helped us.

But....by far and away the biggest issue for me is the pace at which we play and the sheer predictability of our game. We are well and truly figured our.

If shedend simpletons like me and Gol15 can see our play is too slow and sideways, then why can't TT? And if he CAN see that the players are not playing quickly enough, why is he not doing anything about it. 

Unfortunately, I fear that he wants us to play on this dull way - control and "precision" will only get so far in the EPL. You also need speed -mid thought and passing - which is where Liverscum and citeh excel. 

We have seen what happen to this team when we played more up tempo football under Lamp. 

 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

Coached not to? 

 

We have seen what happen to this team when we played more up tempo football under Lamp. 

 

To be fair, it only fell apart under lamps once the team reverted to slow and stagnant football. 

33 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

To be fair, it only fell apart under lamps once the team reverted to slow and stagnant football. 

Defensively it was a nightmare. 

Lampard had to play kante as holder to stop the bleeding. 

18 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Are TTS coaching limitations laid bare for us fans to criticise, because for a season he allows Dave to play stoopid 10yd pointless passes, same with Rudi to Alonso, then Jorginho rinse and repeat, with no real intention to set up our attackers, don’t tell me we have no creativity, Jorgino and  Kova are both sublime passers, just seem they are coached not to…

Just watching him speak it’s clear.

Imagine if we find ourselves in the same position we are in now...but didn't win the CL and no transfer of ownership.

TT's job will be seriously on the line here. There will be talks of sacking him, and it's not entirely his fault.

Finishing 3rd isn't an achievement anymore, because I'm now looking at our points tally. We are no different from the last 4 seasons.

2017/18 = 70
2018/19 = 72
2019/20 = 66
2020/21 = 67
Current = 66

Even if we finish 3rd, it's a terrible league season. Because we finished 5th in 2017/18 with 70 points. We are on course to just about beating that. 

Chelsea need 6 more points to guarantee top 4, so we are looking to equal the points tally of 18/19 season...the season we also finished 3rd.

We failed to close the gap between Pep and Klopp yet again which was the target for this season.

Next season, finishing the season with round about 70 points may not be enough to get 4th anymore.

Basically we haven't improved. We are the same Chelsea since 2017 who can't go above 75 points in a season.

Edited May 3, 20224 yr by Mana

24 minutes ago, Mana said:

Imagine if we find ourselves in the same position we are in now...but didn't win the CL and no transfer of ownership.

TT's job will be seriously on the line here. There will be talks of sacking him, and it's not entirely his fault.

Finishing 3rd isn't an achievement anymore, because I'm now looking at our points tally. We are no different from the last 4 seasons.

2017/18 = 70
2018/19 = 72
2019/20 = 66
2020/21 = 67
Current = 66

Even if we finish 3rd, it's a terrible league season. Because we finished 5th in 2017/18 with 70 points. We are on course to just about beating that. 

Chelsea need 6 more points to guarantee top 4, so we are looking to equal the points tally of 18/19 season...the season we also finished 3rd.

We failed to close the gap between Pep and Klopp yet again which was the target for this season.

Next season, finishing the season with round about 70 points may not be enough to get 4th anymore.

Basically we haven't improved. We are the same Chelsea since 2017 who can't go above 75 points in a season.

I said in December that it was the first time since Jose 1.0 I didn't think the manager was responsible for the rut we found ourselves in and it seemed Roman agreed hence the fact he survived that period.

In that period we had to play games with numerous injuries and Covid cases while the team everyone's praising for being slightly behind us got the NLD called off because of one case.

We lost Chilwell for the season, Kova for an extended period, James for an extended period, Kante for spells, Mendy for the ACON (Kepa may have done okay scaled against his worst self but we don't concede the type of goals he did against City and BHA with Edou in nets). As soon as he got us looking frighteningly good (Burnley despite the draw, Leicester and Juve were the best we played in years) our players started dropping like flies. We had to play Jorginho injured because it was that or an absolute nightmare partnership of Saul/Ruben. Lukaku's ego causing chaos and an unprecedented ownership crisis. You may say an excuse but Klopp with a team two steps above us (your words) and longer in the job only had to deal with one of those problems last season and immediately fell to the level we're currently at, it's reality.

Has TT been perfect? No, our attack needs to improve and I was as critical as anyone when he kept playing Lukaku through all his single digit touch masterclasses but there has been many mitigating circumstances to this season, some hugely unprecedented.

I for one am still convinced Tuchel has done the minimum in improving our attack. This freedom to express yourself notion given to our attackers clearly isn't working when every single one of them genuinely looks lost. No patterns of play in attacking phases. None. Get the ball wide and pray to Allah. 

23 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Jorgino and  Kova are both sublime passers, just seem they are coached not to…

Jesus christ the bar must be incredibly low.

KDB, Bernardo, TAA and Pogba must seem godly...

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

No patterns of play in attacking phases. None. Get the ball wide and pray to Allah. 

Seems to be a more apt description for the football under Lampard, not TT. We very often get the ball to players in the right positions, what they then do with it is a matter of individual quality and experience. Tuchel can only do so much. Do people think it's just random coincidence that we had such a great 2nd leg against Madrid?

7 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Seems to be a more apt description for the football under Lampard, not TT. We very often get the ball to players in the right positions, what they then do with it is a matter of individual quality and experience. Tuchel can only do so much. Do people think it's just random coincidence that we had such a great 2nd leg against Madrid?

The bulk of the chances we create are at the result of our press, not through attacking creativity. 

May I remind you we have only created 2 more big chances than Manchester United? 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I said in December that it was the first time since Jose 1.0 I didn't think the manager was responsible for the rut we found ourselves in and it seemed Roman agreed hence the fact he survived that period.

In that period we had to play games with numerous injuries and Covid cases while the team everyone's praising for being slightly behind us got the NLD called off because of one case.

We lost Chilwell for the season, Kova for an extended period, James for an extended period, Kante for spells, Mendy for the ACON (Kepa may have done okay scaled against his worst self but we don't concede the type of goals he did against City and BHA with Edou in nets). As soon as he got us looking frighteningly good (Burnley despite the draw, Leicester and Juve were the best we played in years) our players started dropping like flies. We had to play Jorginho injured because it was that or an absolute nightmare partnership of Saul/Ruben. Lukaku's ego causing chaos and an unprecedented ownership crisis. You may say an excuse but Klopp with a team two steps above us (your words) and longer in the job only had to deal with one of those problems last season and immediately fell to the level we're currently at, it's reality.

Has TT been perfect? No, our attack needs to improve and I was as critical as anyone when he kept playing Lukaku through all his single digit touch masterclasses but there has been many mitigating circumstances to this season, some hugely unprecedented.

I don't want TT gone, I'm just putting it out there just in case people misinterpret what I said.

I'm just saying there will be talks in the media and amongst fans about whether we should sack him because there's no improvement on the points board, and finding ourselves sucked in to the top 4 race yet again. It's not a good look if we finish below Arsenal. It really isn't and a shameful display.

And that's why I said it's not entirely TT's fault. In fact, he's one of the least problems. The common denominators of why we can't go above 75 points in the last 4 seasons + this one are: The board and the players.

We have a mixture of Conte, Sarri and Lampard players. It's a complete and utter mess. Some players are brought in to work on certain systems, they can't cope with TT's.

Alonso is primary one of them. He's too slow and can't defend.

The two players signed under TT, aren't even TT players! Or the players that could work in his system with trust. And whose fault was this? The board's. Marina and co.

You know what? I'm thankful for RA and what he has done for the club. Always will. Always a legend to us.

But I think it's the right time for him to go. Ever since our title win, we have been completely off challenging for the league. Nothing is getting better. We won the CL last season (which lead to the SC and CWC), but like I said earlier if we didn't win it, we would have gotten 2 trophies in 5 seasons (assuming we lose to Pool).

That is a dramatic drop-off. Arsenal won as much trophies as us within that range if that was the case. And people say Arsenal is not on our level. 

===Also, keep in mind it's not about the trophies as we are not entitled to win every season. It's just the MANNER.===

The board failed to back TT after a CL win. Why didn't they? Because just like the fans, they were blinded that this team was going to do bits this season. It's not good enough.

The players are not good enough for TT. He's been putting on a band-aid on these players and it's now all coming off. And the board have not been making smart decisions. I was angry when we only brought in Lukaku last summer. Because these players were not good enough under Conte, Sarri and Lampard. They are not suddenly going to be good enough for Tuchel.

I know COVID and injuries happen but City never had their games cancelled and worked through that bad period. This also means our squad depth is a complete farce! That drop-off in December was way too much and it's going to happen again NEXT season if we don't do anything this summer.

Edited May 3, 20224 yr by Mana

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I for one am still convinced Tuchel has done the minimum in improving our attack. This freedom to express yourself notion given to our attackers clearly isn't working when every single one of them genuinely looks lost. No patterns of play in attacking phases. None. Get the ball wide and pray to Allah. 

On a week by week basis? Sure but there's many games we create chances at will.

The last time we had all our vital components playing (the Burnley, Leicester, Juve games I mentioned above) we looked absolutely sensational.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

On a week by week basis? Sure but there's many games we create chances at will.

The last time we had all our vital components playing (the Burnley, Leicester, Juve games I mentioned above) we looked absolutely sensational.

I'm afraid you are being quite selective here, particular in matches that were last year. As a whole, we create very little. We've created 2 more big chances than Manchester United in the league. Our inability to bypass low blocks when we have genuinely every single profile of a player at our disposal (yes, even a goal scorer in Lukaku) is downright pitiful how none of them improved since Tuchel has been here. 

On 03/05/2022 at 16:26, Sconnie Blue said:

I'm afraid you are being quite selective here, particular in matches that were last year. As a whole, we create very little. We've created 2 more big chances than Manchester United in the league. Our inability to bypass low blocks when we have genuinely every single profile of a player at our disposal (yes, even a goal scorer in Lukaku) is downright pitiful how none of them improved since Tuchel has been here. 

Tuchel's job is to get these players into the right positions both offensively and defensively.  A large part of what comes next is down to individual quality and experience. Having 6 Kantes in attack failing to create is no poor reflection on the coach. 

As much as you claim no one has improved, Odoi, Mount, and Havertz are better all-round players now than they were before. Kovacic has had way more impact in attacking phases and has played his best football under Tuchel. 

 

On 01/05/2022 at 21:05, venom2011 said:

Utter tripe. Save for the moments where we've been low on confidence or personnel, the general style of play has been better than every club in the league bar City. Have you watched any Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs games this season? I've seen quite a few Liverpool games as well and they pretty much exist in moments and with ruthless efficiency - not unlike some of the football we've played in the past. 

Yep ...watched them all and some...they are all consistently inconsistent just like us and utter tripe for the most part.  But hey we all have our opinions - Yes we have had moments and a few decent games here and there together with a few lucky results, but if you can't win your home games against mediocre competition and can't score goals with the forwards we have then there is something very wrong with the tactics; in recent months its been the same drivel and dour football going nowhere.  While it is understandable that any team can beat any team on any given day, there are games that we have lost or pathetically drawn against opposition that we should be beating, especially at home.  So if man for man our players are better than the opposition, cost 3 or 4 times the amount of money and we lose, what's it down too? individual errors aside. I would say that the other team were better prepared and had more desire to win the game and that all starts with the manager.  For me next season TT has to do a much better job in the league; there is still a 17 point gap now between us and City, I expect that gap to be over 20 points when all is said and done.  It simply not good enough with the money that has been thrown at this team over the last 2 or 3 seasons, we are really no closer to City or Liverpool now than we were then.

On 03/05/2022 at 12:57, Sconnie Blue said:

I for one am still convinced Tuchel has done the minimum in improving our attack. This freedom to express yourself notion given to our attackers clearly isn't working when every single one of them genuinely looks lost. No patterns of play in attacking phases. None. Get the ball wide and pray to Allah. 

Well, in the PL, the 34 games we have played to date, in comparison to the same fixtures last season, we have scored 68 goals vs 54 last season. So I'd say that this 26% improvement  is evidence that Tuchel has improved the attack myself !

12 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Well, in the PL, the 34 games we have played to date, in comparison to the same fixtures last season, we have scored 68 goals vs 54 last season. So I'd say that this 26% improvement  is evidence that Tuchel has improved the attack myself !

It's actually interesting, my guess is that you can argue that most attackers did improve slightly this season in comparison to the previous one;

Havertz has 3 league goals more than last season, overall more than 10 goals in all competitions but he also played more minutes so it depends how you want to look at it, maybe better end product but needed more playtime so it's all about how to interpret that.

Werner has 1 goal less from all competitions in comparison to the previous season, though this time he played significantly less so it's also how you want to interpret it, I would say it's still kind of bad since last season he missed a lot but technically if he scores 1 more goal this season he would equal his tally and then he would become more efficient overall which is an improvement.

Ziyech has slightly better end product, from 6 goals and 4 assists overall last season to this season's 8 and 5 from all competitions so I guess he also had a slight improvement.

Pulisic has 1 PL goal more than previously, while playing less so you could say he has been more effective overall.

Mount is the one player that will end up with a great season once it's finished and it will be a significant improvement from the previous one even if the last one was good, last season he featured in over 50 matches and had 9 goals and 9 assists, now he just reached 50 matches and has overall 12 goals and 15 assists.

Edited May 5, 20224 yr by Gol15