16 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Well, in the PL, the 34 games we have played to date, in comparison to the same fixtures last season, we have scored 68 goals vs 54 last season. So I'd say that this 26% improvement  is evidence that Tuchel has improved the attack myself !

You need to put some context in to this though.

Yes we scored more goals this season. That includes 0-6 Southampton, 0-4 Burnley, 7-0 Norwich.

But then we have games that we failed to score. Everton. Wolves. 

Then 1-0 victories against 2nd team West Ham and Newcastle that we should have done better.

And the 1-1 draws with Brighton, Burnley, a very poor United TWICE and Everton.

(City and Pool games purposely left out).

Point I'm trying to make is, scoring tons of goals don't really mean nothing if it's not converted in to points. Winning 7-0 is still 3 points. We can lose three games in a row scoring 1 or 2 within them, and have one 8-0 win.

Just because we scored more goals this season, doesn't mean we are now more clinical. It feels the same as last season, and it sort of is, if you compare the points this season to last season. Yes we have more points on the board, but not by much.

Edited May 5, 20224 yr by Mana

On 03/05/2022 at 13:56, Argo said:

I said in December that it was the first time since Jose 1.0 I didn't think the manager was responsible for the rut we found ourselves in and it seemed Roman agreed hence the fact he survived that period.

In that period we had to play games with numerous injuries and Covid cases while the team everyone's praising for being slightly behind us got the NLD called off because of one case.

We lost Chilwell for the season, Kova for an extended period, James for an extended period, Kante for spells, Mendy for the ACON (Kepa may have done okay scaled against his worst self but we don't concede the type of goals he did against City and BHA with Edou in nets). As soon as he got us looking frighteningly good (Burnley despite the draw, Leicester and Juve were the best we played in years) our players started dropping like flies. We had to play Jorginho injured because it was that or an absolute nightmare partnership of Saul/Ruben. Lukaku's ego causing chaos and an unprecedented ownership crisis. You may say an excuse but Klopp with a team two steps above us (your words) and longer in the job only had to deal with one of those problems last season and immediately fell to the level we're currently at, it's reality.

Has TT been perfect? No, our attack needs to improve and I was as critical as anyone when he kept playing Lukaku through all his single digit touch masterclasses but there has been many mitigating circumstances to this season, some hugely unprecedented.

Thank you. Someone with logic instead emotion. What’s frustrating is some of our fan base are very fickle. They quickly change there opinion on Tuchel despite the fact this season we were ravaged with injuries to our key players. Yes we want to reach the level of City and Liverpool, but everything is in context. It took Klopp 4 years to win his first trophy. And he was given adequate time to build his team. Everyone witnessed what happened Liverpool to when they lost a bunch of there key players to injuries, they collapsed and City won the league comfortably. Guardiola came in his first season and barely got top 4. And then he spent 100+ million pounds on transfer, and he won the league next season. Tuchel in 18 months won us the CL, Super cup, club world cup, and got us to 2 fa cup finals and a league cup final with a squad he didn’t build. I genuinely believe with a proper backing from the new owner we can close the gap on city and Liverpool. 

7 hours ago, Mana said:

You need to put some context in to this though.

Yes we scored more goals this season. That includes 0-6 Southampton, 0-4 Burnley, 7-0 Norwich.

But then we have games that we failed to score. Everton. Wolves. 

Then 1-0 victories against 2nd team West Ham and Newcastle that we should have done better.

And the 1-1 draws with Brighton, Burnley, a very poor United TWICE and Everton.

(City and Pool games purposely left out).

Point I'm trying to make is, scoring tons of goals don't really mean nothing if it's not converted in to points. Winning 7-0 is still 3 points. We can lose three games in a row scoring 1 or 2 within them, and have one 8-0 win.

Just because we scored more goals this season, doesn't mean we are now more clinical. It feels the same as last season, and it sort of is, if you compare the points this season to last season. Yes we have more points on the board, but not by much.

All fair points - however read Argo's excellent post for the season's context that HAS to count as mitigating circumstances.

Faisal makes some excellent points as well.

TT has done an excellent job considering the disruption he has faced. 

Edited May 6, 20224 yr by Sexyfootball

7 hours ago, Mana said:

You need to put some context in to this though.

Yes we scored more goals this season. That includes 0-6 Southampton, 0-4 Burnley, 7-0 Norwich.

But then we have games that we failed to score. Everton. Wolves. 

Then 1-0 victories against 2nd team West Ham and Newcastle that we should have done better.

And the 1-1 draws with Brighton, Burnley, a very poor United TWICE and Everton.

(City and Pool games purposely left out).

Point I'm trying to make is, scoring tons of goals don't really mean nothing if it's not converted in to points. Winning 7-0 is still 3 points. We can lose three games in a row scoring 1 or 2 within them, and have one 8-0 win.

Just because we scored more goals this season, doesn't mean we are now more clinical. It feels the same as last season, and it sort of is, if you compare the points this season to last season. Yes we have more points on the board, but not by much.

I agree with this. If you want to get a fair season on season statistic, you should discount top two scores and bottom two scores, divide the rest by  34. 

9 minutes ago, charierre said:

I agree with this. If you want to get a fair season on season statistic, you should discount top two scores and bottom two scores, divide the rest by  34. 

And then don't forget to "normalise" for player absences, covid impact, disruption from sanctions and ownership saga, contract (non) renewal impacts, the imposition of a dead donkey to the squad factor, etc etc etc :-) 

24 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

And then don't forget to "normalise" for player absences, covid impact, disruption from sanctions and ownership saga, contract (non) renewal impacts, the imposition of a dead donkey to the squad factor, etc etc etc 🙂

It is very hard to compare season on season. Stats can be altered to suit any particular argument. We therefore have to judge with our own eyes. Have we improved from last season? Have I been entertained? Am I optimistic that next season will have us closer to the top two? These are more relevant. The next four games though are important, win them all and it’s a respectable 78, limp through or heavens forbid miss top four and TT could be under pressure. 
TT deserves to be supported by the new owner, his media interviews in general ooze class. He should be supported in the market. Improvements?   Our attacking play has to be the number one priority, this dull possession for possession sake can be very tedious to watch( we are in the business of entertainment). 

While I fully agree that Tuchel should have the trust and backing to rebuild the squad I also hope that he learned from the Lukaku transfer as well cause that was our only real signing and it didn't make us better.

You can argue that Grealish didn't make Man City better either but as a result we couldn't take advantage of it due to our own failure, had we signed someone that had worked out who knows just how much closer we would have been to Liverpool and Man City despite having problems with injuries of Chilwell and James and with other factors involved...

Tuchel has just pulled off his greatest achievement since he's been here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61345033

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

Tuchel has just pulled off his greatest achievement since he's been here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61345033

...why? Have you noticed Arsenal are 3 points behind us? Have you noticed we have only beaten Arteta twice and lost a lot more since his appointment?

This is not good news, as funny as it seems.

Edited May 6, 20224 yr by Mana

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Tuchel has just pulled off his greatest achievement since he's been here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61345033

Damn thought that was going to be a link to Lukaku being sold...

1 minute ago, Mana said:

...why? Have you noticed Arsenal are 3 points behind us? Have you noticed we have only beaten Arteta twice since his appointment?

This is not good news, as funny as it seems.

I was half joking but on that basis Ole had a superior head to head over City and look how that worked out.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

I was half joking but on that basis Ole had a superior head to head over City and look how that worked out.

Actually not anymore, that record was killed this season.

But yeah.

EDIT: Oh you said "had". Nevermind.

Edited May 6, 20224 yr by Mana

Is there just a cycle of our players turning to sh*t after a manager has been here for a year at this point?

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

Is there just a cycle of our players turning to sh*t after a manager has been here for a year at this point?

Well its a culture within the club that was established after Mourinho's first stint. Started with the old guard and carried on to now. When things aren't going their way they downtools so to speak because they know they will outlast the manager given the sack culture. 

New ownership should fix that because quite literally this entire team needs to be trimmed. 

Bad game management and also managing the condition of the squad. We will have to go strong at Leeds and then the same players for the final 3 days later. He has to go back to bread and butter possession football, no point trying new things at this point in the season,

We are fecked. Tuchel needs to take a sabbatical for his sake.

He's enduring sh*tloads of pressure from everywhere and it cannot be healthy for him. I think with the right setup, he's a great manager but right now our mismanagement of players have hamstrung him too much. 

Our defence are leaving, our midfield needs refurbishing and our attack needs restructuring. Tuchel would need massive mental strength just to cope and I don't think he can. 

We are going to be beat by Liverpool by some 4, 5 goals next Saturday. The fact is that at the moment we are playing on the level of the teams to be relegated. If even that. 

Half time subs were spot on, but bringing on Sarr was a disaster move. He's the worst player to bring on when a team is struggling, he will just make it worse.

18 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Well its a culture within the club that was established after Mourinho's first stint. Started with the old guard and carried on to now. When things aren't going their way they downtools so to speak because they know they will outlast the manager given the sack culture. 

New ownership should fix that because quite literally this entire team needs to be trimmed. 

I don’t think this is the case here. He has made some questionable decisions all season long. The CL win has earned him some credit in the bank for an extra season or 2, but personally not convinced he is a world class manager. IMO he has hidden behind that back 5 formation, which prevented him from getting exposed. Now we can’t seem to stop leaking goals, he needs to figure out how to stop the leak. 
He is a very good coach mind you, but way off Pep & Klopp.

1 minute ago, ducavis said:

I don’t think this is the case here. He has made some questionable decisions all season long. The CL win has earned him some credit in the bank for an extra season or 2, but personally not convinced he is a world class manager. IMO he has hidden behind that back 5 formation, which prevented him from getting exposed. Now we can’t seem to stop leaking goals, he needs to figure out how to stop the leak. 
He is a very good coach mind you, but way off Pep & Klopp.

He's a world class manager but his decision making is clearly affected by his family problems. It was fine to relatively ok up to around November iirc. 

Since the start of the year we have been on a slow decline and the past month have been very terrible. 

25 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Is there just a cycle of our players turning to sh*t after a manager has been here for a year at this point?

Yes, and it keeps happening because we have allowed it to keep happening at the club. When are the players the ones that are made to pay for their sh*t performances? it's always the manager and coaching staff that ended up out the door.

When things go well, they talk big and praise the manager, but as soon as they have that 1 set back, they go quiet and let the manager take the heat and never recover until that manager is sacked. The new manager and coaching staff comes, the players go back to talking big and putting in a few decent performances, then they turn to sh*t again and then it's manager taking the blame again. 

We ain't much better than United in this area. United's players have been a disgrace this season with their attitude on the pitch, and our lot do the same thing every season, the difference is that we have a good period inbetween all of the sh*t.

We are getting worse and worse. Gladly the season will be over soon. This was a really disppointing one. 

he’s just gone off the rails lately. we are f**king disaster

 

 

Maybe his private life issues affected his judgement in the recent times. Looks like most people just want the season to end.

How does Sarr even get on before Chalobah!

He’s not premier league quality at all.

Edited May 7, 20224 yr by 2211