1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Well my point is that there had been talents that big clubs have also made into big players and that came from all around the world. I mentioned Real Madrid and Man City because big clubs also sign unproven talent and it pays off, there are other examples like Barcelona that did a whole lot in order to sign a young Neymar and it took them 2 seasons to win a treble with him. Haaland is the new superstar that will be talked about but it looks like we simply couldn't match his price but are still willing to throw a lot of money on anyone, I don't like that we got 2-3 bids rejected for Lukaku it makes the board look like they are all over the place and just begging another key player of another team to come.

My point is that we don't need to buy someone like Lukaku in order to succeed, there are other ways to improve than simply accepting that we must buy someone else's key player now that we can't get Haaland. We can improve our 1st team without Lukaku and for less money, the Haaland transfer would have been different but with Lukaku we're paying like we're signing a real superstar player but we're not really getting a real superstar. That's how it see it, you buy a player for 110m and 250-300k wages to win everything but we'll get a player that will boost end product against lower-end opposition and that won't show up in most big games.

Inter and Spurs are reported to be ready for a 50-60m Vlahovic as a replacement for Lukaku/Kane, we could have just signed that 21 year old for much less and he would be more willing to sometimes be on the bench and rotate with Havertz as well when the tactics dictate it and he would still be getting 15 goals easy.

I'm not going to go against Lukaku if things go bad but many fans will and questions about his price tag, wages and overall ability will put a lot of pressure on him and on Tuchel, we signed Havertz and Werner for a bit more than 130m euros, some report that's basically the amount Inter wants, IMO we're overpaying it by a significant margin.

 

Neymar was a household name when Barcelona signed him. No different to if we signed Haaland. 

You seem to be of the opinion that Tuchel and the club, are happy to maybe not challenge next season, but bring in a promising striker that might reach the level required to challenge in the next few years. 

Tuchel and the club clearly do not share that opinion. Tuchel wants to challenge, and the club want to challenge. So from the their point of view, who are you putting faith in? Lukaku or Vlaovic? 

I think with with how many young players we have in attack, a striker in his prime like Lukaku, is actually beneficial for the rest if the attack to improve. He has turned into a real leader under Conte aswell, he has a big personality, and he will take alot of the pressure from the likes of Havertz and Werner.

I get the arguments about him in big games, they have some foundation. However, this narrative comes from his time at United, and we know 1st hand how Jose sets up teams against the rest of the big 6. West brom and Everton he scored big goals, and Inter last season he scored goals. But our problems under Tuchel generally havent been in this sort of game anyway. 

I just think there is some crazy negativity towards him, and no doubt he will get the Jorginho treatment. Ive seen people lie about his age, and say he is too old, when he is a month older than Kane, who im sure age wouldnt bean issue.

When the club spent £200m+ on players 12 months ago, then they win the champions league, and back the manager massively with £100m+ star striker, i really dont think theres any grounds for complaints. It all comes across as entiled and spolit in my opinion. Our fans are definitely the most critical in the country. 

Well figure that I start to get my head around this massive deal only for it to collapse lol

Forget Lukaku and put everything we have towards Messi IMMEDIATELY

City have just got Grealish so might be out the running, which just leaves PSG and us. We wont even have a transfer fee, it'll just be the wages

But he has no resale value

1 minute ago, junkymunky said:

Forget Lukaku and put everything we have towards Messi IMMEDIATELY

City have just got Grealish so might be out the running, which just leaves PSG and us. We wont even have a transfer fee, it'll just be the wages

It would be lovely to see him in our shirt, but sadly this is all a ploy hy him and Barca to get the Spanish league to make an exception for them so they dont lose Messi.

 

Still just for a moment, let's dream.

 

Messi

Havertz

Werner

 

🤣

Just now, axman2526 said:

It would be lovely to see him in our shirt, but sadly this is all a ploy hy him and Barca to get the Spanish league to make an exception for them so they dont lose Messi.

 

Still just for a moment, let's dream.

 

Messi

Havertz

Werner

 

🤣

Messi being the incredible creator he is, might actually make Werner look world class with the amount of chances he'll give him 🤣

I do agree its a bit of a pipe dream though, but there is just a little hope in me.. 

I still think this will happen. Inter most likely need the money but the owner is trying to find a way to soften the backlash from the ultras.

13 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I still think this will happen. Inter most likely need the money but the owner is trying to find a way to soften the backlash from the ultras.

Lukaku would have to push real hard, make himself a villain so the Zhang family could save face. I dont see him doing that.

Just now, axman2526 said:

Lukaku would have to push real hard, make himself a villain so the Zhang family could save face. I dont see him doing that.

The damage may be done already between him and the club since he came out and requested the move. We shall see....Or perhaps we will now go back to Dortmund

8 minutes ago, forbzy said:

The damage may be done already between him and the club since he came out and requested the move. We shall see....Or perhaps we will now go back to Dortmund

Importantly he did not do so publically. Easy enough for him to deny the whole thing and the Ultras will lap it up.

9 minutes ago, big blue said:

Neymar was a household name when Barcelona signed him. No different to if we signed Haaland. 

 

That's my point, Haaland is that player and not Lukaku despite the price tag. They went all in and did whatever it was needed and in Neymar's second season they won the treble, Lukaku even in his prime right now doesn't look like a superstar player to me, even for Belgium that guy is De Bruyne and not Lukaku, despite the individual awards that Lukaku has recieved.

27 minutes ago, big blue said:

You seem to be of the opinion that Tuchel and the club, are happy to maybe not challenge next season, but bring in a promising striker that might reach the level required to challenge in the next few years. 

Tuchel and the club clearly do not share that opinion. Tuchel wants to challenge, and the club want to challenge. So from the their point of view, who are you putting faith in? Lukaku or Vlaovic? 

I think with with how many young players we have in attack, a striker in his prime like Lukaku, is actually beneficial for the rest if the attack to improve. He has turned into a real leader under Conte aswell, he has a big personality, and he will take alot of the pressure from the likes of Havertz and Werner.

I get the arguments about him in big games, they have some foundation. However, this narrative comes from his time at United, and we know 1st hand how Jose sets up teams against the rest of the big 6. West brom and Everton he scored big goals, and Inter last season he scored goals. But our problems under Tuchel generally havent been in this sort of game anyway. 

I believe that we can challenge the Manchester teams and Liverpool with 2 new signings but one of them doesn't have to be Lukaku.
I have said in the past that he did improve and there is no question that he's a good striker and that he would improve our squad, despite that I think that his price tag is just too much over the top because I don't see him making such a big difference for us.

Conte sets up his team differently than Tuchel, many of Lukaku's goals have been just from free headers in the 6 yard box from counter attacks but when you see him in big games he can still fade away, yes he did score over 20 goals in Serie A in 2 consecutive seasons I'm not counting him out I just believe that the board got sucked into this saga very fast after they couldn't sign Haaland as if we are so much desperate for Lukaku to save us...

We're not and we shouldn't be, we just need some more depth now with Giroud gone and Tammy not having much of future with Tuchel so this new attacker doesn't need to be Lukaku. If Inter and Spurs are ready to replace their key strikers with Vlahovic why shouldn't we go for him, IMO he would be more than enough for us both for the short and long term and he would cost around half the price of Lukaku.

27 minutes ago, big blue said:

I just think there is some crazy negativity towards him, and no doubt he will get the Jorginho treatment. Ive seen people lie about his age, and say he is too old, when he is a month older than Kane, who im sure age wouldnt bean issue.

When the club spent £200m+ on players 12 months ago, then they win the champions league, and back the manager massively with £100m+ star striker, i really dont think theres any grounds for complaints. It all comes across as entiled and spolit in my opinion. Our fans are definitely the most critical in the country. 

I was hoping for Haaland to come for 150m, no problems for me. But Lukaku after 2-3 bids denied already? This reminds me of Pogba leaving Man United for free and then coming back for 100m, what did he manage to do for them part from acting like a diva, 1 EL title and 1 League Cup is laughable. I was all for the free signing of Depay and I won't mind Lukaku joining if it happens but still for me it means we pay far more than what we will get, I knew that Havertz was worth the money but I don't believe that Lukaku is worth £110m, teams will keep looking to squeeze out some extra cash from us because apparently it works so if that makes me spoiled then it is what it is.

I’ve openly said I’d prefer this deal not to happen. I just don’t see him making enough of a difference personally. He will score goals no doubt but I can’t see it making us a stronger team all round. That said if we get him I’ll get behind him and at least be happy we are backing a top manager properly for once.

However I do get the sense something strange is happening here with Kane, messi, mbappe, haaland, lewa all potentially on the move this summer or next. I’d prefer us to stand our ground and hope that one of these guys falls in our laps next summer due to finances elsewhere. Hate to give Utd free run at haaland!

Sky sports transfer center are saying we are desperately hoping Zhang remains unmoved and sanctions the deal as we have no plan B in place.

So would very much be a panic buy if this falls through.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

That's my point, Haaland is that player and not Lukaku despite the price tag. They went all in and did whatever it was needed and in Neymar's second season they won the treble, Lukaku even in his prime right now doesn't look like a superstar player to me, even for Belgium that guy is De Bruyne and not Lukaku, despite the individual awards that Lukaku has recieved.

I believe that we can challenge the Manchester teams and Liverpool with 2 new signings but one of them doesn't have to be Lukaku.
I have said in the past that he did improve and there is no question that he's a good striker and that he would improve our squad, despite that I think that his price tag is just too much over the top because I don't see him making such a big difference for us.

Conte sets up his team differently than Tuchel, many of Lukaku's goals have been just from free headers in the 6 yard box from counter attacks but when you see him in big games he can still fade away, yes he did score over 20 goals in Serie A in 2 consecutive seasons I'm not counting him out I just believe that the board got sucked into this saga very fast after they couldn't sign Haaland as if we are so much desperate for Lukaku to save us...

We're not and we shouldn't be, we just need some more depth now with Giroud gone and Tammy not having much of future with Tuchel so this new attacker doesn't need to be Lukaku. If Inter and Spurs are ready to replace their key strikers with Vlahovic why shouldn't we go for him, IMO he would be more than enough for us both for the short and long term and he would cost around half the price of Lukaku.

I was hoping for Haaland to come for 150m, no problems for me. But Lukaku after 2-3 bids denied already? This reminds me of Pogba leaving Man United for free and then coming back for 100m, what did he manage to do for them part from acting like a diva, 1 EL title and 1 League Cup is laughable. I was all for the free signing of Depay and I won't mind Lukaku joining if it happens but still for me it means we pay far more than what we will get, I knew that Havertz was worth the money but I don't believe that Lukaku is worth £110m, teams will keep looking to squeeze out some extra cash from us because apparently it works so if that makes me spoiled then it is what it is.

Going around in circles, what you want and what the club want are totally different. I think its naive to think the club hasnt explored whether haaland was an option, clearly he is not, and would cost easily more than £100m including wages, agent fees. 

I think il stick to backing the club, and a champions league winning manager, who clearly wants him, and has a plan for him. 

Il leave the armchair coaching, scouting, and financial advising to you mate. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Sky sports transfer center are saying we are desperately hoping Zhang remains unmoved and sanctions the deal as we have no plan B in place.

So would very much be a panic buy if this falls through.

Messi 😁

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Honestly 1 bad example doesn't make the rule, the last Ballon D'or in the PL was Ronaldo and he was signed as a fairly unproven kid.

That's just not true - Cristiano Ronaldo was one of the most talked about prospects in world football because of his playstyle and background coming from the Sporting CP academy like Figo and Quaresma before him, and was the most expensive teenager in EPL history (until United signed Martial, lol). 

He was also the butt of many jokes in the EPL in his first 2 seasons because he couldn't cross a ball (to feed van Nistelrooy), was marked out of games and generally went missing quite often.  I'm not sure how long the archive on this site goes back but there's plenty of that here. You could even look at the archives of a Man U fan site like RedCafe and see how many were lusting after 'real wingers' like Arjen Robben and Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Something obviously clicked for him in 2006 and he never looked back, but you're misleading if you think anyone thought he was a potential Ballon D'or winner in 2005, let alone when he was signed.

 

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

ultimately when the most important big games are played Lukaku has disappeared most of the time so we will be paying him massively just to win small games.

Which funnily enough, is precisely how you win a league. We don't need help in big games, under Tuchel we've dominated in almost every single one we've played. We can't score to save our life against the lesser lights of the league and until we do, we will never be competitive in the EPL. It's draws and losses against the likes of Brighton, Leeds and Villa - places where City routinely pick up points - that keep us out of contention.

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Going around in circles, what you want and what the club want are totally different. I think its naive to think the club hasnt explored whether haaland was an option, clearly he is not, and would cost easily more than £100m including wages, agent fees. 

I think il stick to backing the club, and a champions league winning manager, who clearly wants him, and has a plan for him. 

Il leave the armchair coaching, scouting, and financial advising to you mate. 

Not sure how I'm going in circles, I'm just open for more options than just Lukaku and if he doesn't join us the club will be too, the fact that I don't think that the board should be this desperate to sign Lukaku doesn't mean that I don't back the club, in fact I'm giving our squad more credit when I say that we don't need such a high profile and highly priced player in order to challenge the other teams for the league title.

I never said that the club didn't try to sign Haaland though. I said that as soon as that option wasn't possible the club apparently sent a few bids for Lukaku that all got rejected so far. Lukaku or not I do back the club but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it, I'm convinced that we need a new attacker I just don't understand why does it need to be Lukaku, if it was this big push for Haaland I would understand it more.

Edited August 6, 20214 yr by Gol15

In general this is the way to stuff up a transfer and a transfer season. Don't identify the targets until its too late and then put yourself into stupid disadvantaged bidding situations. It was done so much better last season.

In defence of management we didn't make the champs league until the final day of the season and winning the champions league has provided more budget. 

Even so...

And its incredible how hard it seems to be to sell zouma and tammy.

23 minutes ago, ozboy said:

In general this is the way to stuff up a transfer and a transfer season. Don't identify the targets until its too late and then put yourself into stupid disadvantaged bidding situations. It was done so much better last season.

In defence of management we didn't make the champs league until the final day of the season and winning the champions league has provided more budget. 

Even so...

And its incredible how hard it seems to be to sell zouma and tammy.

Covid market. Football clubs took a big hit. Without that issue no doubt both of them are snapped up.

10 hours ago, DarkMata said:

Does big Rom turn up in the big games? Maybe not.  Did Bruno turn invisible in the big games for Man Utd? Yes, but did he turn them from a team that struggles in the lesser games to one that could well be in a title race this season ? Yes.  

But on the flip side, he's one the biggest reasons they bombed out of the UCL group stage and haven't won a single thing since he's been there.

And not to mention, Sporting's first season they win the league only losing once.

Glen Johnson is not completely sure about buying Lukaku.. If his words have any weight...

However, former Chelsea defender Glen Johnson doesn't think a return to Stamford Bridge would be the best idea for the Belgium international due to the pace of the Premier League.

"I’m not so sure the Premier League suits Lukaku to be honest," Johnson told Betting Odds. "Obviously he’s a big, powerful lad, quite physical but I just think the Premier League’s a bit too quick for him.

"So no, I wouldn’t like to see him return.

"But in certain leagues, he is going to get goals, albeit at a slightly slower pace."

31 minutes ago, evissy said:

Glen Johnson is not completely sure about buying Lukaku.. If his words have any weight...

Glenn Johnson doesn't pay for his toilet seats. He's the last person I'd listen to about how to spend your money. 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Glen Johnson is not completely sure about buying Lukaku.. If his words have any weight...

However, former Chelsea defender Glen Johnson doesn't think a return to Stamford Bridge would be the best idea for the Belgium international due to the pace of the Premier League.

"I’m not so sure the Premier League suits Lukaku to be honest," Johnson told Betting Odds. "Obviously he’s a big, powerful lad, quite physical but I just think the Premier League’s a bit too quick for him.

"So no, I wouldn’t like to see him return.

"But in certain leagues, he is going to get goals, albeit at a slightly slower pace."

As I recall JT was a bit quick with Glen’s wife, so I guess Glen would know about premier league speed

14 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Well we know our panic buy will not be Danny ings at least lol

Well Spurs and Kane are in a bit of a pickle now, especially if Messi chooses to go to City, although reports are he'll end up at PSG.  City would simply have to blow Kane's transfer fee on Messi's wages.... if IM don't do this deal then it leaves us in a bit of a mess.  FFS Marina is already on Plan B or even Plan C...I'd hate to see what Plan D looks like 😲 now Ings has gone.

Plan B for me would be to trust what we have. I don't understand why we can't give Tammy a glimmer of hope and trust Kai, Timo and Hakim to multiply their numbers in terms of scoring.