I was having a discussion with a friend the other day about who has been the better of the two. Obviously they don't play the same position, but I was wondering what you guys thought.

I don't think we can deny they have both been underwhelming. Havertz obviously scored the winner in the CL final, and had a decent start to his Chelsea career until he got Covid. Werner seems dangerous at times, but doesn't have much of an end product.

 

All in all I think Havertz has disappointed me the least? Might sound a bit harsh, but that's generally how I feel.

To give you the proper answer, CFCHolland, DUH.

Eventually, go 4 at the back and play both.

                Lukaku

Werner  Havertz  Mount

The 3 behind Lukaku can interchange

Havertz has for me turned up more when we needed him. I've got a lot of love for Timo but, put it this way had we lost that ucl final a lot of fingers would be pointed at Timo for those missed opportunities. Havertz needs to improve in his 1v1s but when he's through I'm more confident in him scoring than my boy Timo. I still think both have multiple levels and we've not seen the best of both. 

Timo vs Southampton last season under Frank and vs Zenit this season 2 goals 1 assist pure domination and he made it look easy. We need more of this. Havertz is the bigger game player scores vs Spurs in the semi last night, assist in the super cup and ofc *that* goal.

Probably both. Both are rotational level player for top team which is not something that you want when you pay 50+ m for a player.

But if I have to pick one my answer is probably Havertz due to his potential.

With Werner it is what it is, he is quite limited player, so there is only a few way you can use him. In perfect setup he could have been better but we can't provide such setup. His only problem right now is his finishing, it is not even average,it is terrible. 

Havertz on the other hand is multi dimensional player, maybe my expectation for him is just too big. His biggest problem right now is coping with physicality and developing elite skillset.  Unlike Morata, Havertz does not run away from physical battle but clearly he is not strong enough. I just expect him to be better this season maybe next season. 

The sad part about Havertz is that If you talk to his fans all them say play him as cf over Lukaku. As a person who want Havertz to reach his potential, I am glad that these people do not manage Chelsea. Tuchel is doing wonderful job making Lukaku the focal point of the offense. Let lukaku a stronger and ready player to carry the burden physically and mentally and let Havertz be free.Play havertz as cf a times but not all the time, or even better play them as split st, let Lukaku deal with cb so Havertz can roam around attacking and finding space. Once he is ready maybe in 2/3 space, you can play him a full time cf.

 

 

Havertz is still only 22 years old, I think his ceiling is probably close to the highest in our squad given that he's a young intelligent player. So in terms of potential he's up there with CHO and Pulisic because he has great technique and reads the game well. Some of the simple things he does go unnoticed but he's a player that will most likely make the correct split second decision at any given moment and that's a player any coach would love to have.

He's underwhelming right now I get it, but things haven't been exactly easy. When it comes to scoring goals he has the quality to be a real threat but he can also miss a clear cut chance, plenty of room for improvement there. I think he's capable of having a bit more than 10 goals in the PL in the future, though I don't see him being a regular scorer that would get 15+ goals but it's a plus that he's not afraid of the big matches, he can become really impactful and deliver in the big games.

Both have been probably not what people would have expected.

Werner especially. He was known to be a pure goal scorer in Germany and has been something else. Without the record level of offsides he probably would have had okay numbers. A bit unlucky as well.

Havertz's level of potential is huge. I am not sure where his development will take him though. Maybe he will be Kai as people have said. He is this hybrid of a midfielder, winger and striker. He doesn't remind you of any other player. Physicality in every sense is something he needs to improve and will naturally as he is still growing into his body. 

Havertz has been better from the two for me and it is not even close. Much of it is down to expectations and potential. Both carry a massive transfer fee. 

If you asked me right now who id trust to be the starting striker, I’d go for Havertz. Timo has proved to be a liability and can’t really be trusted.

Timo has been the biggest disappointment for me. His record and reputation in Germany was very good and the guy is so indecisive in the final 3rd. He tries to he too cute with his finishing - just smash the ball. 

Timo has been the more disappointing of the two because of his age what he had already achieved. 

Kai is interesting....he is very talented..."the next great thing in European football"  that's what he was billed. I just don't see that.  He came here as a number 10 type player and I dont think his vision/passing ability is good enough to be a great number 10.  He is a good goal scorer and I think 15 goals a season should be in his reach in the next couple of years. 

Goal scoring -

• Havertz can score with his head and through 1 vs 1s and tap-ins.
• Werner can score though shots in the penalty area and tap-ins.
• Havertz can play in midfield as well as attack.
• Werner can really only play in an attacking role.

Havertz for me is the better finisher and more versatile.

I also think they can play together in the right set up.

Don't think either has been that successful though getting the winner in the UCL is special and the winnings go along way to covering his transfer fee or at least Werner's.

 

based on this you could conclude that Werner creates more chances and is less involved on the ball than Havertz. Havertz however doesn't do as well in making the final decision/pass, but he carries the ball well and is involved in the attacking play a bit more than Werner. 

Edited January 7, 20224 yr by azpi28

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Havertz is still only 22 years old, I think his ceiling is probably close to the highest in our squad given that he's a young intelligent player. So in terms of potential he's up there with CHO and Pulisic because he has great technique and reads the game well.

I think Kai has done better. As others have mentioned he is younger and I also lack the fact that he has a bit of physical presence to him which is something our other forwards lack. 

Would agree Kai has done slightly better.  His positional play, work rate and physical presence are better.  Still feel underwhelmed by the general lack of goals and assists.  Werner had many goal involvements in year 1, but just misses so many chances.

Neither fill me with confidence, and part of me is always waiting for them to come good.  At this point I'm not so sure they will go beyond what we are seeing.  Fingers crossed.

One additional thought - the system doesn't necessarily help with 7 or 8 defensive players.  The forced 4 at the back vs. Spurs was a breath of fresh air for our attacking players, which increased by 33% on pitch!  They still missed so many chances though.

Edited January 7, 20224 yr by PhilH930

They've both been a big disappointment.

7 hours ago, Browerkid said:

Timo has been the more disappointing of the two because of his age what he had already achieved. 

Kai is interesting....he is very talented..."the next great thing in European football"  that's what he was billed. I just don't see that.  He came here as a number 10 type player and I dont think his vision/passing ability is good enough to be a great number 10.  He is a good goal scorer and I think 15 goals a season should be in his reach in the next couple of years. 

how many games has he played as a 10 though?

19 minutes ago, Zeta said:

They've both been a big disappointment.

That is an expected comment from the likes of you.

Just now, evissy said:

That is an expected comment from the likes of you.

This is an expected comment from the likes of me. 

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

18 hours ago, rtwelch said:

Eventually, go 4 at the back and play both.

                Lukaku

Werner  Havertz  Mount

The 3 behind Lukaku can interchange

Werner and Mount on the wings, no thanks.

5 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Werner and Mount on the wings, no thanks.

Isn’t Mount playing exactly there at the moment? On the right hand side… Maybe swap out Werner for another attacker or Mount in the middle but the point is the same. More attackers on the pitch 

1 minute ago, rtwelch said:

Isn’t Mount playing exactly there at the moment? On the right hand side… Maybe swap out Werner for another attacker or Mount in the middle but the point is the same. More attackers on the pitch 

Yeah and we iffy performances playing him there. No coincidence he played well VS Spurs on Wednesday playing as a 8 in his natural position.

Hmm surprised no one heard this when reading the title: