1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

One of the best 1v1 defenders we have. Liverpool aren't gonna be pumping balls up for Mane/Salah/Firmino to win either so don't need to worry about headers as much. 

Azpi has looked dodgy defending out wide, still got the attributes to play more centrally. Maldini was a full back who was just as good through the middle.

There was a comparison yesterday where Azpi found himself in pretty much the exact same position Zouma was in against Rashford. Azpi stayed on his feet and cut off all angles and eventually blocked the shot/pass.  Zouma on the other hand dives in and gives away a senseless penalty. Azpi could definitely do a job in the middle.

It's really difficult to try and defend Zouma's mistake yesterday - "stay on your feet" and "don't go to ground in the box" must be the first things that a centre-half learns! Still willing to give him a few more games though to see if he improves. It was his first game back at a pumped up Old Trafford and there was obviously some anxiety in his game. Hopefully he starts to settle down with a little run in the team.

I don't think he expected to play this week until Luiz was sold on deadline day, looked completely uncomfortable. If we had another option on the bench ( no disrespect to Timori), he'd be taken off at HT. He needs one of those easier games to settle into this game, unfortunately he's not going to get one soon, so more training drills and hard work ahead for him and the team.

I'm willing to give Zouma time. Considering he's been on loan for the past few seasons, he needs time to get and adapt to his teammates, but silly mistakes like the tackle for the penalty need to stop. At 25 years old he should be eradicating this from his game. 

James-Rudiger-Azpilicueta-Emerson is a possibility. We'd have both wings bombing down the flanks and Dave is a good defender.

2 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

There was a comparison yesterday where Azpi found himself in pretty much the exact same position Zouma was in against Rashford. Azpi stayed on his feet and cut off all angles and eventually blocked the shot/pass.  Zouma on the other hand dives in and gives away a senseless penalty. Azpi could definitely do a job in the middle.

It's really difficult to try and defend Zouma's mistake yesterday - "stay on your feet" and "don't go to ground in the box" must be the first things that a centre-half learns! Still willing to give him a few more games though to see if he improves. It was his first game back at a pumped up Old Trafford and there was obviously some anxiety in his game. Hopefully he starts to settle down with a little run in the team.

I had high hopes for Zouma in his first season for us, but I think his injury set back his progress and he never reached the potential that I thought he might. He always had great pace and heart, and some of those qualities clearly won over fans of Stoke/Everton during his loan spells. However he has never convinced me as a CB that looks comfortable playing the ball out of defense and I am not sure he will fit into our system. Yesterday was a particularly harsh start for him, and there aren't many tougher away venues than Old Trafford (even if United are not the team they once were). I don't think he will be a regular starter once Rudi is back, but I do think he will have better days when called upon. Longer term he will probably be moved on once we are able to sign replacements again. 

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

I don't think he expected to play this week until Luiz was sold on deadline day, looked completely uncomfortable. If we had another option on the bench ( no disrespect to Timori), he'd be taken off at HT. He needs one of those easier games to settle into this game, unfortunately he's not going to get one soon, so more training drills and hard work ahead for him and the team.

I agree although based on preseason it seems like Luiz had even fallen behind Zouma in the squad and that was one of the reasons why he was keen to leave.

Tomori may be raw at the moment but I hope he gets a few chances this season. He is young and will improve with the right coaching. 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

I'm willing to give Zouma time. Considering he's been on loan for the past few seasons, he needs time to get and adapt to his teammates, but silly mistakes like the tackle for the penalty need to stop. At 25 years old he should be eradicating this from his game. 

The thing is that is Zouma's game as far as I have seen. I fully expected that level of performance and believe that we will continue to see this. Put him in a backs to the wall team defending deep and clearing bombs thrown into the box and he'd look good. Everton, Newcastle, Brighton etc. Put him in a team that has an attacking philosophy and therefore relies on its defenders to do their jobs and then develop play, never in a million years. He just hasn't got it.

I think the main issue is how uncomfortable he is with the ball at his feet. Given how we want to play centre halfs are expected to take the ball in tight areas with their backs to the play. He simply can't do this and it affected his general composure and led to the overall poorness of his play. 

 

That's not going to improve so either we return to hoofing the ball or we retire him to the reserves.

He looks a shadow of the player that was alongside JT a while back and prior to that bad injury. Shame.

My observation is that Zouma has always looked tentative with a ball at his feet.  His passing is very deliberate, as id he is always trying to be perfect with the weight and location.  It's not a natural or confident passing technique.

But the lack of confidence while defending yesterday was not like it was when he was here before the injury, and not like the times I saw him play for Everton last season.  If Liverpool play a strong lineup in Turkey, and Zouma plays like that again, he may be eaten alive.

The question is, do you risk the kid's confidence by replacing him after one bad game?  What if Tomori is still out of his depth?  What if Rudiger gets hurt again?  We need Zouma so it's important for the coaches to work with him and get him right.  If the ban holds, we can't buy a replacement until next summer.  

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

glorified community shield that comes at a sh*t time for us when we have to try and get a good start in the premier league. Couldn't care less about it tbh.

It's a much bigger deal than the Community Shield and everybody knows that. It's a match you only get to play in if you win one of the two major European finals. It feels like you are down playing it because of the position we are in right now. I really want us to win it, more than ever since we lost the last two. Also, with the squad we have right now, this may be our only realistic chance of winning anything this season.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by Scott Harris

4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It's a much bigger deal than the Community Shield and everybody knows that. It's a match you only get to play in if you win one of the two major European finals. It feels like you are down playing it because of the position we are in right now. I really want us to win it, more than ever since we lost the last two. Also, with the squad we have right now, this may be our only realistic chance of winning anything this season.

I remember watching the two in 2012 and 2013 and feeling the same way, just feels a bit of a nothing trophy. Similar to when we lost to Corinthians in the club world cup. 

1 hour ago, Liam said:

I think the main issue is how uncomfortable he is with the ball at his feet. Given how we want to play centre halfs are expected to take the ball in tight areas with their backs to the play. He simply can't do this and it affected his general composure and led to the overall poorness of his play. 

 

That's not going to improve so either we return to hoofing the ball or we retire him to the reserves.

Stick him a team with two banks of four and a low block and he'll look a decent player. Similar to Cahill last year he will struggle in team that requires the central defenders to be very comfortable on the ball. I also think shifting him to being the left sided centre half will have increased his vulnerability.

He got away with it first time round because he had far better players around him covering his ass and getting him out of trouble. What i saw yesterday was the level of player i always thought he was - terribly limited on the ball, awful sense of position, clumsy and turns like an oil tanker. Absolutely crazy not to take ￡40 million for him! 

Got to say I never really understood all the fuss around Zouma even before his injury ... he always seemed like one of those guys who was really popular, to the extent that nobody ever really noticed that he wasn't actually very good ...

I think a lot of it was the fact that Mourinho signed him, and nobody wanted to believe that Jose would sign a dud, and to criticise Zouma was to criticise Jose, which was something you couldn't do at the time without getting your head bitten off. The season Zouma got a lot of starts was the season we were hurtling down the table at such a rate that it cost Jose his job.

Fingers crossed Everton are still keen in January 🙂

39 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Got to say I never really understood all the fuss around Zouma even before his injury ... he always seemed like one of those guys who was really popular, to the extent that nobody ever really noticed that he wasn't actually very good ...

I think a lot of it was the fact that Mourinho signed him, and nobody wanted to believe that Jose would sign a dud, and to criticise Zouma was to criticise Jose, which was something you couldn't do at the time without getting your head bitten off. The season Zouma got a lot of starts was the season we were hurtling down the table at such a rate that it cost Jose his job.

Fingers crossed Everton are still keen in January 🙂

For me he was one of the first players where i saw a you tube montage of his best bits and i must admit i thought he was pretty dynamic coming in then. Of course we now know that these youtube collections are all bollox, even Babayoko looks like he can play football in those.

I must admit that I am a fan of Zouma and back him to turn things around, I did feel for the lad as you could clearly see that he completely lost his confidence after giving away the Pen. The best thing to do for the teams sake was probably take him off at half time as he clearly was struggling to get his head straight however unfortunately we didnt have a suitable replacement on the bench. But having stayed on the pitch I think it was an invaluable experience for him and hopefully he can learn from this and come back stronger.

I feel we are not playing low block this season with Frank so we have very little use of him. Never understood all the fuss around him. Terry-era he was more relevant but these days it is more about distribution and pace. If you look at players like Van Dijk and I guess Maguire they can do everything, are big bodies and have sweet touch. Zouma has a big frame only thing common with those two. Against lower sides Zouma can easily play as we will have the ball most of the time.

On 12/08/2019 at 13:06, evissy said:

James-Rudiger-Azpilicueta-Emerson is a possibility. We'd have both wings bombing down the flanks and Dave is a good defender.

Azpi as a CB in a back four won't work for me, the opposition will put two big CFs up front and he would be in trouble.

I dont understand the desire to sell Zouma. Zappacosta cost us 30 million odd and a player like Zouma will cost something similar if not something slightly more. You want some one like a VVD then be prepared to shell out mega money like striker level money. And with Chelsea being where they are I think that sort of money should be spent on a scoring striker.  

It is unfortunate that Zouma had a mega brain fart at the wrong time, but can we honestly say that all the 4 goals we let in are primarily due to Zoumas fault alone ? He will take time to get adjusted to Franks demands, having a relationship with Christensen as well as learning to play with the ball at his feet. 

8 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Azpi as a CB in a back four won't work for me, the opposition will put two big CFs up front and he would be in trouble.

Can't think of many teams that even have two big CF's. Close down the cross and they're getting no luck anyway. Ball gets into the box, let Rudiger mark the big man. Sorted.

4 hours ago, brownindian said:

I dont understand the desire to sell Zouma. Zappacosta cost us 30 million odd and a player like Zouma will cost something similar if not something slightly more. You want some one like a VVD then be prepared to shell out mega money like striker level money. And with Chelsea being where they are I think that sort of money should be spent on a scoring striker.  

It is unfortunate that Zouma had a mega brain fart at the wrong time, but can we honestly say that all the 4 goals we let in are primarily due to Zoumas fault alone ? He will take time to get adjusted to Franks demands, having a relationship with Christensen as well as learning to play with the ball at his feet. 

We've just had a net spend of £140m was it this summer? Add the fact we've got Champions league money again then next summers budget to add onto it, we can easily spend £300m next summer and it not hurt us at all. £80m for a CB, £100m for a striker then we could still have £100m to play about with. Lets not worry about figures too much.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Can't think of many teams that even have two big CF's. Close down the cross and they're getting no luck anyway. Ball gets into the box, let Rudiger mark the big man. Sorted.

We've just had a net spend of £140m was it this summer? Add the fact we've got Champions league money again then next summers budget to add onto it, we can easily spend £300m next summer and it not hurt us at all. £80m for a CB, £100m for a striker then we could still have £100m to play about with. Lets not worry about figures too much.

We should have this summers budget, plus the winter budget, plus next summers budget, plus the stadium budget, and on top of that, the money from the ten tickets i purchased last season, along with the money i spent in the shop. We are truly minted.

Now the bit that worries me, who we invest/waste it on ??

53 minutes ago, coco said:

We should have this summers budget, plus the winter budget, plus next summers budget, plus the stadium budget, and on top of that, the money from the ten tickets i purchased last season, along with the money i spent in the shop. We are truly minted.

Now the bit that worries me, who we invest/waste it on ??

I see where the half billion you’ve come up with in the other thread came from now, you must have bought a pencil case. 

2 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

I see where the half billion you’ve come up with in the other thread came from now, you must have bought a pencil case. 

Dam it i forgot the pencil case.

8 hours ago, brownindian said:

I dont understand the desire to sell Zouma. Zappacosta cost us 30 million odd and a player like Zouma will cost something similar if not something slightly more. You want some one like a VVD then be prepared to shell out mega money like striker level money. And with Chelsea being where they are I think that sort of money should be spent on a scoring striker.  

It is unfortunate that Zouma had a mega brain fart at the wrong time, but can we honestly say that all the 4 goals we let in are primarily due to Zoumas fault alone ? He will take time to get adjusted to Franks demands, having a relationship with Christensen as well as learning to play with the ball at his feet. 

Surely, too late now. He's been in the system since he was 8. He'll never be comfortable on the ball now.