2 hours ago, enigma said:

you could say same about city this season that spurs have regressed, we have suffered injuries and poor form, liverpool started off poorly, the teams below top 6 have got worse. city have done well to capitalise this season though, but watching them recently they're looking a lot more beatable. i wouldn't say they or utd will dominate, just like i am not willing to write us off as not being able to compete for the title any time soon. 

If Hazard decides he's better off at Madrid, and Courtois, and you see more and more players turn down Chelsea for other clubs... Could soon find ourselves reading the transfer columns and excitedly keeping tabs on players like...

Andy Carroll and Ashley Barnes in the future. 

 

:p 

1 hour ago, Sun zhi said:

If Hazard decides he's better off at Madrid, and Courtois, and you see more and more players turn down Chelsea for other clubs... Could soon find ourselves reading the transfer columns and excitedly keeping tabs on players like...

Andy Carroll and Ashley Barnes in the future. 

 

:p 

Well if that should happen it would sort out the fair weather supporters.

And im sure Arsenal had a "number of factors" in their favour at times the last decade but didn't win.  You can rip apart any title win using that logic (would we have had it so easy in 2005 if Fergie wasn't half way through a rebuild? For example) but the reality is the winners deserve it and pissing two league's in three years isn't a fluke.

Conte did brilliantly last year, no doubt.

End of the matter, I see City and United buying the best players every year to improve while we won't compete. Both of them had new managers who wanted their own squad and were in transition. They have got it now and I can't see them going down. I hope I am wrong but we will see.

Blimey it's glum on here. 

35 minutes ago, JoseBlues said:

 

 

 

Conte did brilliantly last year, no doubt.

End of the matter, I see City and United buying the best players every year to improve while we won't compete. Both of them had new managers who wanted their own squad and were in transition. They have got it now and I can't see them going down. I hope I am wrong but we will see.

 

 

 

United won't run off because Jose hasn't exactly got a good record from season 3 and beyond, Pep admittedly is a totally different ball game. It is possible to compete against higher resourced clubs, United did it to us in the late 00's and Leti have done it to the big two in Spain. What it requires is good scouting and recruitment and if Palmeiri is as good as some claim that is a positive start.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Only we can win two titles in three years (both with numerous games to spare) and say we are turning into Arsenal 

That’s not what I said. I said there’s the potential for that down the line. Judging on recent form against them. We’re actually not even as good as Arsenal 

 

Do you honestly think one of the best attackers and goalkeepers in the world want to stick around for battling for the top 4 & getting knocked out the CL without getting to the latter stages? That’s delusional mate.

 

As I said in the original post, if you’d read it properly, it’s too soon to say we’ll go the same way they did, but the warning signs are there. If you choose to ignore them that’s your prerogative. 

 

I hope I'm wrong but if we continue the way we’re going, the only way is down.

Edited January 24, 20188 yr by EdinburghBlue

He needs to reinvent his main formation, yes 3-4-3 was fine and now without Matic 3-5-2 patches it up in a defensive sense but attack suffers way too much.

If we can't get the players in he needs to make do with what we have, like he did with Alonso and Moses he needs to find quality that we have somewhere and a new answer.

11 hours ago, enigma said:

i feel this is the problem. people writing off players in their first season. zappacosta imo has been good, but he wasn't bought to be a first choice. i think he's good enough to push moses for the first team spot, but he was ultimately bought as back up. the same for drinkwater. bakayoko is the only player who was bought to be a first teamer, and yes although his season so far has been average, he's still being written off too quickly because he's coming in to replace matic. think about it, matic at bakayoko's age was playing for benfica. at 22 years of age bakayoko has been part of a league winning monaco side, he wouldn't have been first choice for monaco if he was trash. football fans are way too impatient these days, it's an era of instant success. i don't like it tbh, but it is what it is and we have to live with it. 

Not writing them off at all, I’ve said many many times that I hope Bakayoko proves me wrong and that hopefully with a full pre season under his belt he can turn out to be the player we all hoped next season.

By the same token, he did only really have one really good season at Monaco, as I said I still think he can improve significantly (tonight was much better) but you’d expect a more consistent performer for the money we spent IMO.

 

He might push Moses for a starting place but that doesn’t mean much, they’re both average players. Moses had a terrific season last year but his crossing etc for a wingback is shocking (Alonso’s isn’t great but at least he scores and poses a threat from set plays).

 

DD is an average player IMO & paying £35m odd for him was absolutely barmy.

His record in cups continues to be shocking. But when you come out with stuff about trophies not being important just that the manager and players work hard and very well together you cannot be surprised.

Though if you are reading Antonio while losing a league cup semi is no skin off Romans nose seeing his team get ripped apart by barca I am pretty sure would be. Best you sort us and your own cup form out before we play them.

I would love to ask Conte why he has switched from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 so much this season. 30 league wins last season and he thinks it needed changing ? i just don't understand it. I'm not even sure how 3-5-2 can work in the Premier League. Premier League defenses know how to soak up pressure, what they don't like is quick movement and crosses into the area. 3-5-2 is too narrow, the attackers and midfielders are too far apart, the wing backs are isolated and can't get forward or find enough space to get a cross in, it's just sh*t, it doesn't work. You could have Messi in that formation and it still wouldn't work.

16 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Not writing them off at all, I’ve said many many times that I hope Bakayoko proves me wrong and that hopefully with a full pre season under his belt he can turn out to be the player we all hoped next season.

By the same token, he did only really have one really good season at Monaco, as I said I still think he can improve significantly (tonight was much better) but you’d expect a more consistent performer for the money we spent IMO.

 

He might push Moses for a starting place but that doesn’t mean much, they’re both average players. Moses had a terrific season last year but his crossing etc for a wingback is shocking (Alonso’s isn’t great but at least he scores and poses a threat from set plays).

 

DD is an average player IMO & paying £35m odd for him was absolutely barmy.

We do have to be wiser in how we utilise our resources, if the latest buys go ahead its mindblowing we will have spent close on 250m ( forget net buys that is a red herring) and not improved our first eleven one bit. Yep we've added some squad depth but this is how most clubs integrate the youth team prospects. Four top class players would have had more impact on our season whilst keeping RLC and really pushing the boat out to keep the likes of Chalobah and bringing in Sterling perhaps.

It’s a shame Conte can’t do it against Arsenal. I hate not beating them regularly anymore!

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I would love to ask Conte why he has switched from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 so much this season. 30 league wins last season and he thinks it needed changing ? i just don't understand it. I'm not even sure how 3-5-2 can work in the Premier League. Premier League defenses know how to soak up pressure, what they don't like is quick movement and crosses into the area. 3-5-2 is too narrow, the attackers and midfielders are too far apart, the wing backs are isolated and can't get forward or find enough space to get a cross in, it's just sh*t, it doesn't work. You could have Messi in that formation and it still wouldn't work.

It can work IMO, but you really do need World Class wingbacks who can cross a ball. A striker who can dominate in all aspects of the game and a midfield full of players with terrific engines. None of which we’ve got. If he wants to play 3 at the back I agree that with the players we have at our disposal 3-4-3 is all we can do.

4 minutes ago, charierre said:

We do have to be wiser in how we utilise our resources, if the latest buys go ahead its mindblowing we will have spent close on 250m ( forget net buys that is a red herring) and not improved our first eleven one bit. Yep we've added some squad depth but this is how most clubs integrate the youth team prospects. Four top class players would have had more impact on our season whilst keeping RLC and really pushing the boat out to keep the likes of Chalobah and bringing in Sterling perhaps.

completely right, still annoys me that Ake isn't playing in that back three. prime example of how we have wasted money and talent over the last few years 

I would like to see 4231 or 433, basically let Baka and Kante sit and let the other 4 do their stuff. 

2 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It can work IMO, but you really do need World Class wingbacks who can cross a ball. A striker who can dominate in all aspects of the game and a midfield full of players with terrific engines. None of which we’ve got. If he wants to play 3 at the back I agree that with the players we have at our disposal 3-4-3 is all we can do.

Even world class wing backs are going to struggle though. Look at Alonso and Zappacosta / Moses. They are asked to run up and down the pitch, take on 2 players by themselves and put a good ball into the area. Even world class wing backs are going to find that impossible to do consistently. Even Hazard can't beat 2 players at once every time he goes forward, and he's one of the best players in the game. They would need help out wide just to distract a player so they can beat the other player going forward. The 2 midfielders can't help, they need to cover their positions, if they move out of position to help the wing backs up the top of the pitch, then the opposition just runs through the midfield and at our defense with nothing to stop them. The two forward players can't help either because they are waiting for the ball to be delivered into the area.

I just don't see 3-5-2 ever working, no matter who you have in the team.

25 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I would love to ask Conte why he has switched from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 so much this season. 30 league wins last season and he thinks it needed changing ? i just don't understand it. I'm not even sure how 3-5-2 can work in the Premier League. Premier League defenses know how to soak up pressure, what they don't like is quick movement and crosses into the area. 3-5-2 is too narrow, the attackers and midfielders are too far apart, the wing backs are isolated and can't get forward or find enough space to get a cross in, it's just sh*t, it doesn't work. You could have Messi in that formation and it still wouldn't work.

A couple of reasons:

1) It offers a natural place in the side for Fabregas, who is unquestionably one of our most talented players and whose quality of direct passing is unmatched within the squad. In addition, Conte seems to be a fan of using Fabregas in big games, and this allows him a more solid base on which to do it;

2) I would imagine that Conte thinks we need an alternative for top-level opposition in the Champions League. We played a two-man midfield away to Roma (admittedly without Kanté) and were completely embarrassed; they played us off the park.

This isn't necessarily a defence of our usage of the formation at certain points (West Ham away still rankles) but I do think there is a logic to it.

1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

A couple of reasons:

1) It offers a natural place in the side for Fabregas, who is unquestionably one of our most talented players and whose quality of direct passing is unmatched within the squad. In addition, Conte seems to be a fan of using Fabregas in big games, and this allows him a more solid base on which to do it;

2) I would imagine that Conte thinks we need an alternative for top-level opposition in the Champions League. We played a two-man midfield away to Roma (admittedly without Kanté) and were completely embarrassed; they played us off the park.

This isn't necessarily a defence of our usage of the formation at certain points (West Ham away still rankles) but I do think there is a logic to it.

So... A 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 then. 

Fabregas has two behind/beside him. Some width further up ahead and close to the striker 

Sorted. 

(Bah! I should be a manager. These people always over-complicating things.)

6 hours ago, JoseBlues said:

 

 

 

Conte did brilliantly last year, no doubt.

End of the matter, I see City and United buying the best players every year to improve while we won't compete. Both of them had new managers who wanted their own squad and were in transition. They have got it now and I can't see them going down. I hope I am wrong but we will see.

 

 

 

 Conte is the man to make the best of that situation but it's not promised he'll stick around. At some point they'll both stop buying so many players bc they've got the squad they want. 

The club haven't kept up with them in spending but they also don't have the money those two do. United have 3 forwards alone making 200k+ don't they? Nothing to be done about that. Do we even have 3 players overall who make that much? 

Frankly if our manager needs to have the best players and 150m to spend every window to win a trophy I'd question if they're the best man for the job. Conte is not the name Guardiola or Mourinho are so attracting the top top players isn't happening, couldn't even tempt Sandro. Combine that with not being able to pay those players outrageous wages and it's tough times if we can't hit on younger players like Baka and Palmieri. 

I think Conte is just a serial winner and can't accept losing so this narrative that he wants out bc Chelsea won't buy him the best players or players he 'wants' is natural. Realistically where will he go though if he wants to leave that would be much different? There are only 4 clubs that can for whatever reason throw cash around like its nothing. 

1 hour ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

 Conte is the man to make the best of that situation but it's not promised he'll stick around. At some point they'll both stop buying so many players bc they've got the squad they want. 

The club haven't kept up with them in spending but they also don't have the money those two do. United have 3 forwards alone making 200k+ don't they? Nothing to be done about that. Do we even have 3 players overall who make that much? 

Frankly if our manager needs to have the best players and 150m to spend every window to win a trophy I'd question if they're the best man for the job. Conte is not the name Guardiola or Mourinho are so attracting the top top players isn't happening, couldn't even tempt Sandro. Combine that with not being able to pay those players outrageous wages and it's tough times if we can't hit on younger players like Baka and Palmieri. 

I think Conte is just a serial winner and can't accept losing so this narrative that he wants out bc Chelsea won't buy him the best players or players he 'wants' is natural. Realistically where will he go though if he wants to leave that would be much different? There are only 4 clubs that can for whatever reason throw cash around like its nothing. 

Psg or real 

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Psg or real 

Like they will give him the job. 

Wenger has his number for some reason.

Hopefully we can get over this. There is bigger fish to fry.

CL against Barca, matches against the Mancs for Top4. 

Really need to get back to best. Come on Chelsea.

Has Conte ever played a back 4 since last year? Even when we are losing and need more numbers going forward?

I do think Chelsea have the defender's to do it specially if they sign another LB. Going forward Chelsea are very predictable.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

Like they will give him the job. 

Why not? He proved that he's capable of winning trophies on a smaller budget than his opponents, and he did it in his first season in England, without getting a single player he asked for.

Imagine what he can do if he gets an open chequebook and doesn't have to operate within the confines of "sell to buy" system.

15 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Why not? He proved that he's capable of winning trophies on a smaller budget than his opponents, and he did it in his first season in England, without getting a single player he asked for.

Imagine what he can do if he gets an open chequebook and doesn't have to operate within the confines of "sell to buy" system.

PSG anyone will win the league with that team, not a proven champions league record. 

Real he won't be getting the player's he wants.