2 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Mason Mount was in the Championship at 21, should we have sold him? Not to mention CHO was our best player in terms of chances created per 90 mins last season before his injury. As the last game showed, creating chances isn't exactly our strong point.

 

Truth is if players like Tomori, Abraham and CHO got the same treatment Mason Mount did we'd be in a much better place.

This is just simply unfair. I can agree on Tomori not getting enough chances and maybe Abraham to some extent (At least under Tuchel) but CHO has got opportunites from every manager that has come to the club and he has failed to be consistent. It's not their fault he isn't performing and at some point we need to just point at the player rather than continue to make excuses for him.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

does it mean that we have had nobody of quality in attack for the past 3 years? 

A good question, and as it is a slow evening, I have crunched some data from the last 4 seasons. Stats being stats, you can "prove" many things with the results, but it is very obvious that in terms of minutes per goal, the current sextet of forwards are well down the list in terms of their productivity, with "a goal every three games" pretty much being the best we can hope for from the best of them ... 

And sorting them by Minutes per goal :

One surprising (or not) observation is how far down the list our current player of the year is ... 

Obviously quality of opponent is a factor for some (e.g. Batshuayi playing mostly Cup games against lower league opposition).

CHO comes bottom of the pile, despite a decent amount of minutes in each of the 4 seasons ... (and more under Tuchel LOL)

Some interesting stats above from @Sexyfootball. Whatever the stats say however, I prefer to trust my eyes, and simply put, CHO has not been anywhere near good enough.

How many games has he genuinely taken the match by the scruff of the neck and won us the points?

In a situation where we are a goal down with 10 mins to go, who would you prefer to nick us a goal to equalize? CHO or Marcos Alonso? (as an example)

How many times does CHO look dangerous, or even "up for it"?

I put CHO in firmly the same category as Tammy Abraham - perhaps even below Tammy. He is a player that on paper is a technically good player. Quick, can score and assist. But In reality, he offers the team very little, and generally comes over as not having a huge will to win. I simply dont see him as a player who will fight for a victory.

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

You can see the full list of CHO's appearances at link below, and it's not remotely true to say that he has mostly been a RWB or "wildly out of position". Yes there have been a lot of sub appearances, but do the maths ... it still averages at more than 50 minutes per "appearance". I'd say that is plenty of opportunity to show what you've got ... ?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/392768/verein/631 

In any case, this is him pushing for it (again) ... it is not as if TT is forcing him out of the door ... 

I don't think he is by any stretch our worst winger, but if he insists on playing at some other club what can you do ?

If the club rates him, then I'm sure it will be a loan. 

But that's the thing, last Autumn he did. When we were ripping teams apart in that period he was comfortably our best attacking player (well outside the wingbacks) then after being unfairly dropped returned and made big impacts vs Villa, Spurs and Palmerias before being done for the season with injury. He also ended last season 3rd in the league on key passes and big chances created per 90.

If we had the Duff, Robben and Cole or even Hazard, Willian and Pedro trio in their primes i could let this go, but Pulisic and Ziyech are outlasting him, utterly depressing.

42 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

How many games has he genuinely taken the match by the scruff of the neck and won us the points?

Villa away, Spurs home, the world cup final and all those games in the autumn. There's been others in the other seasons but i cba to list every specific match (apart from i'll also point out he's come on twice with us 3 goals down and we've ended up recovering draws).

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we had the Duff, Robben and Cole or even Hazard, Willian and Pedro trio in their primes i could let this go, but Pulisic and Ziyech are outlasting him, utterly depressing.

They may only be outlasting him for a couple of weeks though, LOL.

CHO has initiated this, so that's the utterly depressing part for me. Sterling is clearly the #1 winger and will start if fit, but surely CHO ought to be backing himself to get ahead of Pulisic and Ziyech, even if he thinks the manager doesn't fancy him ? (the manager who has given him the most minutes of any season in his Chelsea career btw)

He’s needed a loan for a while now. He just needs to play week in week out. Rather he went out on loan to a premier league team, Leicester would be good. Think it gives us a fairer assessment on the player to see if he’s good enough for us or not.

16 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

A good question, and as it is a slow evening, I have crunched some data from the last 4 seasons. Stats being stats, you can "prove" many things with the results, but it is very obvious that in terms of minutes per goal, the current sextet of forwards are well down the list in terms of their productivity, with "a goal every three games" pretty much being the best we can hope for from the best of them ... 

And sorting them by Minutes per goal :

One surprising (or not) observation is how far down the list our current player of the year is ... 

Obviously quality of opponent is a factor for some (e.g. Batshuayi playing mostly Cup games against lower league opposition).

CHO comes bottom of the pile, despite a decent amount of minutes in each of the 4 seasons ... (and more under Tuchel LOL)

Can you include assists too in these figures? Be interesting to see, especially when you consider a lot of CHO's minutes have come at RWB under Tuchel.

Let him go on loan to Dortmund and he'll rack up Sancho level numbers over there then we can sell him for a decent whack when he returns,

14 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

He’s needed a loan for a while now. He just needs to play week in week out. Rather he went out on loan to a premier league team, Leicester would be good. Think it gives us a fairer assessment on the player to see if he’s good enough for us or not.

Many papers saying he could be the makeweight in the deal to bring Fofana here. If that is the case, get it done pronto Todd! I have a pen you can borrow to sign the paperwork.

4 hours ago, just said:

Many papers saying he could be the makeweight in the deal to bring Fofana here. If that is the case, get it done pronto Todd! I have a pen you can borrow to sign the paperwork.

RLC too. Would be good for both of them if we swaped them and cash for Fofana.

19 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

He’s needed a loan for a while now. He just needs to play week in week out. Rather he went out on loan to a premier league team, Leicester would be good. Think it gives us a fairer assessment on the player to see if he’s good enough for us or not.

I'm all for a loan (better than keeping him here as 3rd choice), but I think a permant move would be very shortsighted

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Can you include assists too in these figures? Be interesting to see, especially when you consider a lot of CHO's minutes have come at RWB under Tuchel.

I'll see if I can find those and add a column in ... give me a few days as a bit busy first half of this week !

9 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Was that CHO being shown the door?!!

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Can you include assists too in these figures? Be interesting to see, especially when you consider a lot of CHO's minutes have come at RWB under Tuchel.

OK done it ... didn't take very long in the end 🙂 

Quite a lot of extra columns now, so hopefully you can still see the numbers OK !

Amusingly we are getting rid of our two most productive forwards in terms of assists LOL, although none of the figures are much chop to be honest ... 

Edited August 8, 20223 yr by Sexyfootball

On 07/08/2022 at 19:10, nonotnowjim said:

Some interesting stats above from @Sexyfootball. Whatever the stats say however, I prefer to trust my eyes, and simply put, CHO has not been anywhere near good enough.

How many games has he genuinely taken the match by the scruff of the neck and won us the points?

In a situation where we are a goal down with 10 mins to go, who would you prefer to nick us a goal to equalize? CHO or Marcos Alonso? (as an example)

How many times does CHO look dangerous, or even "up for it"?

I put CHO in firmly the same category as Tammy Abraham - perhaps even below Tammy. He is a player that on paper is a technically good player. Quick, can score and assist. But In reality, he offers the team very little, and generally comes over as not having a huge will to win. I simply dont see him as a player who will fight for a victory.

Couldn't have put it any better myself. Nail On Head.

 

Sadly he's never been the same since his injury.

He had robben levels of pace and confidence as a teenager. I can't see the former coming back, but maybe playing every week the latter might. 

There's no way he'll have the chance to play himself into whatever constitutes his best form at Chelsea though. 

Should have gone on loan before the injury before the new contract. Would have been much better for him and us. He like werner does get some assists, CHO is also an excellent crosser of the ball although when sterling is your striker that is largely useless.

The entire forward setup is so wrong as to be laughable and the midfielders by and large dont get the goals either although in my mind Gallagher has the potential to be like lampard in a 4 3 3

well at least we are cutting back the excess that should leave room for some green shoots wherever they are hopefully germinating.

I won’t be sad to see him go. We are a top club competing for every title, personally I feel he’s had enough time to show how good he is and he never did it. Compare him to Mount and James, they made sure they were first names on team sheet.

Maybe that’s a little harsh as he had a bad injury but how much longer do we really want to give him???

I saw someone mention Tammy Abraham - He’s had a bigger impact here than CHO ever did.

Probably controversial for some, but we should get a permanent deal for him while he has two years left on his contract. He is too predictable and I’ve never seen a more one footed player. 

2 hours ago, SimonH said:

Probably controversial for some, but we should get a permanent deal for him while he has two years left on his contract. He is too predictable and I’ve never seen a more one footed player. 

Hmm you must never have seen maradona 

15 hours ago, ozboy said:

Hmm you must never have seen maradona 

Or Robben

 

Average Chelsea fan "we're so boring to watch, why can't we more direct and progressive in possesion"

Also average Chelsea fan "Hudson Odoi is sh*t sell him"

Those charts 😆