Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech, and CHO all gone or looking likely to leave?

Leaves us with Havertz, Mount, Sterling, Pulisic, and Broja. 

Hope we have something planned because that to me looks week. Really wish we went for Leao, but if we are spanking the rest of the money on Fofana and De jong, it might be a case of looking at Depay, Aubameyang, or someone like Asensio on loan. 

This attack is concerning. 

I think Ronaldo, and I mean the real one, Nazario not Cristiano, will struggle in this team. It is not just built or focussed on the attacking element of gameplay. 

I bet you the same players in a Pep system or even Klopp will score for fun. 

To be fair Lampard with this team will score goals for fun but Lampard wasn't at the required technical level to change games or set up certain elements of the game transition hence he struggled and will struggle even more at a team with lower quality players that don't have the ability on their own to eke out victories. 

I wonder what's happening with Tuchel because he never was this type of control obsessed manager at Dortmund or PSG. He let the players play, he was high octane football, he was great at setting up transitions. It's almost like winning the champions league based on a defensive and counter attacking emphasis has totally changed him. 

I'm at a loss really. He's not a bad coach by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not sure why he can't pin point the obvious issues like  lot of us can.

I know we tend to think we have it all figured out and like even I like to ask, if so why is he the manager and not us, however I do think in this case there's a huge disconnect in our general controlled play and getting the attacking element to work as it should. 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by abister1

He had a 3 months injury, first game he's not playing he's telling the media he wants to leave? big F* deal, just move on then. He's never the same player that was once promised, may as well cash in on him.

27 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I think Ronaldo, and I mean the real one, Nazario not Cristiano, will struggle in this team. It is not just built or focussed on the attacking element of gameplay. 

I bet you the same players in a Pep system or even Klopp will score for fun. 

To be fair Lampard with this team will score goals for fun but Lampard wasn't at the required technical level to change games or set up certain elements of the game transition hence he struggled and will struggle even more at a team with lower quality players that don't have the ability on their own to eke out victories. 

I wonder what's happening with Tuchel because he never was this type of control obsessed manager at Dortmund or PSG. He let the players play, he was high octane football, he was great at setting up transitions. It's almost like winning the champions league based on a defensive and counter attacking emphasis has totally changed him. 

I'm at a loss really. He's not a bad coach by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not sure why he can't pin point the obvious issues like  lot of us can.

I know we tend to think we have it all figured out and like even I like to ask, if so why is he the manager and not us, however I do think in this case there's a huge disconnect in our general controlled play and getting the attacking element to work as it should. 

Really good post. I remember when his record against all top managers was excellent and we just didn't concede. But it wasn't from parking the bus or stifling the play. I am sure it wasn't.  This shot shy tippy toe tap football has developed into our game and reminds me of how boring it was under previous managers in my mind going all the aay back to the middle of Mourinho II against Spurs.

I know age and risk specs gave a way of changing things but I am sure we were playing attractive football under TT for ages.

Where is that bloke.

5 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

He had a 3 months injury, first game he's not playing he's telling the media he wants to leave? big F* deal, just move on then. He's never the same player that was once promised, may as well cash in on him.

Exactly.

When you look at the Lionesses, they all functioned as a squad, and didn't have hissy fits when they were not selected in the team or the match day squad.  Instead those on the sidelines were just massively supportive of those on the pitch. No room for prima donnas in that set up, and I hope ours !

Get rid, the guy thinks he's better than he clearly is.

Far too much hate on here for the guy, was a special talent as a youth player, honestly think he'd be one we regret getting rid of, definitely a loan for me, southampton season in the Premier league playing 1st team football would be ideal.

4 minutes ago, tmarmsi said:

Far too much hate on here for the guy, was a special talent as a youth player, honestly think he'd be one we regret getting rid of, definitely a loan for me, southampton season in the Premier league playing 1st team football would be ideal.

I think the prodigious talent that he showed as a youth was due to his blistering pace and close ball control whilst running. After that injury he seems to have lost all pace and confidence.  Without those attributes he seems to have been shown up to be a pretty average footballer and one that we would never have bought. That's why I see little point in a loan or even a buy back tbh, if it means we can get more for a straight sale.

14 minutes ago, tmarmsi said:

Far too much hate on here for the guy, was a special talent as a youth player, honestly think he'd be one we regret getting rid of, definitely a loan for me, southampton season in the Premier league playing 1st team football would be ideal.

Nobody hates him.

We just don't think he's good enough as a footballer for the level we aspire to reach. I'm sure just about everybody would wish him well in his future career and hope he is able to fulfill at least some of the potential he showed in the junior ranks. 

2 hours ago, abister1 said:

I think Ronaldo, and I mean the real one, Nazario not Cristiano, will struggle in this team. It is not just built or focussed on the attacking element of gameplay. 

I bet you the same players in a Pep system or even Klopp will score for fun. 

To be fair Lampard with this team will score goals for fun but Lampard wasn't at the required technical level to change games or set up certain elements of the game transition hence he struggled and will struggle even more at a team with lower quality players that don't have the ability on their own to eke out victories. 

I wonder what's happening with Tuchel because he never was this type of control obsessed manager at Dortmund or PSG. He let the players play, he was high octane football, he was great at setting up transitions. It's almost like winning the champions league based on a defensive and counter attacking emphasis has totally changed him. 

I'm at a loss really. He's not a bad coach by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not sure why he can't pin point the obvious issues like  lot of us can.

I know we tend to think we have it all figured out and like even I like to ask, if so why is he the manager and not us, however I do think in this case there's a huge disconnect in our general controlled play and getting the attacking element to work as it should. 

At Dortmund & PSG his team was better than 90% of the rest of the league. He isn’t going to get that in the PL as the league is very competitive. Top 4 is now a Top 6 and you actually have to turn up every game. People keep pointing to Mbappe, Neymar & Di Maria, but he isn’t going to that quality in the PL. He needs to actually develop these players, but he seems like a tactical coach that needs players at their prime to make things work.

24 minutes ago, tmarmsi said:

Far too much hate on here for the guy, was a special talent as a youth player, honestly think he'd be one we regret getting rid of, definitely a loan for me, southampton season in the Premier league playing 1st team football would be ideal.

Thank you! Just needs the right manager to unlock his talents. Honestly can’t fault him;  he has spent near 2 seasons with the manager, and knows he isn’t going anywhere under him. No player is ever ready at 21, it takes time, commitment & dedication from the player and the manager. Vinicius Jnr was in the same boat under Zidane, Ancelotti came in and his fortune turned around. Brighton, Southampton or Leicester will be good for him, as their managers will take the time to develop him and are renowned in that aspect. Let’s remember it was Rogers who gave Sterling his break, and polished Suarez.

The irony is all these players we are binning seem to be landing on their feet. I am intrigued to see how it all plays out for them in the future. I just don’t buy into the idea all 5-6 forward players are awful, and a manager can squeeze an extra 10% out of them. They are all International players (well bar CHO), it makes zero sense. The manager seems to be getting his way in the market, I am just intrigued to see where we are come the end of the season after he has burnt through £200m-£300m. Just a reminder if it fails, we will pay him to leave and someone else will come in to pick the bones.

3 minutes ago, ducavis said:

I just don’t buy into the idea all 5-6 forward players are awful

Did you not watch any of our games last season ? 🙂 

A loan just delays the inevitable. For his sake he needs a club and manager that believes in him, and is best if he is just sold.

3 hours ago, abister1 said:

I think Ronaldo, and I mean the real one, Nazario not Cristiano, will struggle in this team. It is not just built or focussed on the attacking element of gameplay. 

I bet you the same players in a Pep system or even Klopp will score for fun. 

To be fair Lampard with this team will score goals for fun but Lampard wasn't at the required technical level to change games or set up certain elements of the game transition hence he struggled and will struggle even more at a team with lower quality players that don't have the ability on their own to eke out victories. 

I wonder what's happening with Tuchel because he never was this type of control obsessed manager at Dortmund or PSG. He let the players play, he was high octane football, he was great at setting up transitions. It's almost like winning the champions league based on a defensive and counter attacking emphasis has totally changed him. 

I'm at a loss really. He's not a bad coach by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not sure why he can't pin point the obvious issues like  lot of us can.

I know we tend to think we have it all figured out and like even I like to ask, if so why is he the manager and not us, however I do think in this case there's a huge disconnect in our general controlled play and getting the attacking element to work as it should. 

Why are we pretending our attacking problems weren't an issue before Tuchel? This goes way back, back to Conte's second season at least, and was at it's worse under Sarri. If it wasn't for Hazard in those seasons, we would have been more toothless than we are now. It improves in patches, but then it drops again.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

Why are we pretending our attacking problems weren't an issue before Tuchel? This goes way back, back to Conte's second season at least, and was at it's worse under Sarri. If it wasn't for Hazard in those seasons, we would have been more toothless than we are now. It improves in patches, but then it drops again.

Exactly.

It all comes back to having paid high prices for decent but not stellar players, with the associated belief that they must be great players because they were expensive, whereas in reality they are some distance short of "world class".

I'm sure Boehly has clearly noticed all that in the handful of games he has watched, and will do whatever is necessary to back TT and revitalise the squad with better players.

How can fans judge him when he hasn't had a prolonged period in the team in a position he feels most comfortable in, i totally agree with all our offensive players are useless and we don't perform enough, but seriously the guy is 21! How many players had so much talent in their youth, I honestly believe he needs regular football and confidence., we shouldn't be getting rid of permanently just yet.

Mason Mount was in the Championship at 21, should we have sold him? Not to mention CHO was our best player in terms of chances created per 90 mins last season before his injury. As the last game showed, creating chances isn't exactly our strong point.

 

Truth is if players like Tomori, Abraham and CHO got the same treatment Mason Mount did we'd be in a much better place.

11 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Mason Mount was in the Championship at 21, should we have sold him? Not to mention CHO was our best player in terms of chances created per 90 mins last season before his injury. As the last game showed, creating chances isn't exactly our strong point.

 

Truth is if players like Tomori, Abraham and CHO got the same treatment Mason Mount did we'd be in a much better place.

To be fair to the club, and various managers, CHO has chalked up 6,443 minutes across 126 appearances in the first team to date ... so it wouldn't be hard to argue that he's actually had better treatment at age 21 than Mount had ... 

I would say that he's had plenty of opportunity to make a case for himself, and the sad reality is that he hasn't done enough ... 

1 hour ago, tmarmsi said:

How many players had so much talent in their youth

A lot actually. Musonda, David Bentley, Wilshere, Ben Arfa, Ravel Morrison, Pogba etc2. All these people didn't exactly became great players(One won a World Cup tho)

There will and always have been talented youth players that fell through the cracks or just doesn't pan out to be a proper world class player. 

17 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

To be fair to the club, and various managers, CHO has chalked up 6,443 minutes across 126 appearances in the first team to date ... so it wouldn't be hard to argue that he's actually had better treatment at age 21 than Mount had ... 

I would say that he's had plenty of opportunity to make a case for himself, and the sad reality is that he hasn't done enough ... 

Mostly as a RWB or a subsitute, he's been played wildly out of position. Tuchel even blocked his loan move to Dortmund (who have an incredible record with young players) just so he could be a back up RWB over here.

 

I'm all for a loan to Southampton but if he gets sold permanently I could see it becoming a Tomori level mistake

With Werner leaving and Pulisic not looking happy being a super sub, CHO should do his best to fight for his spot as this will be his best chance to do it.

11 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Mostly as a RWB or a subsitute, he's been played wildly out of position. Tuchel even blocked his loan move to Dortmund (who have an incredible record with young players) just so he could be a back up RWB over here.

 

I'm all for a loan to Southampton but if he gets sold permanently I could see it becoming a Tomori level mistake

You can see the full list of CHO's appearances at link below, and it's not remotely true to say that he has mostly been a RWB or "wildly out of position". Yes there have been a lot of sub appearances, but do the maths ... it still averages at more than 50 minutes per "appearance". I'd say that is plenty of opportunity to show what you've got ... ?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-hudson-odoi/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/392768/verein/631 

In any case, this is him pushing for it (again) ... it is not as if TT is forcing him out of the door ... 

I don't think he is by any stretch our worst winger, but if he insists on playing at some other club what can you do ?

If the club rates him, then I'm sure it will be a loan. 

26 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

With Werner leaving and Pulisic not looking happy being a super sub

Very Liberal use of the word Super.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Why are we pretending our attacking problems weren't an issue before Tuchel? This goes way back, back to Conte's second season at least, and was at it's worse under Sarri. If it wasn't for Hazard in those seasons, we would have been more toothless than we are now. It improves in patches, but then it drops again.

We scored more goals under Tuchel last season than in comparison to both Conte's second season and Sarri's season afterwards.

Despite that, our forwards scored only 19 goals PL goals last season, under Sarri our front line scored 39 PL goals, about 40% of those were scored by Hazard and arguably Sarri got the best season out of him but the question is then...

...If you take away Hazard's imput the amount of goals scored by forwards is very similar, so does it mean that we have had nobody of quality in attack for the past 3 years? 

23 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Very Liberal use of the word Super.

It's just from the term super-sub, as in someone that comes in and has an high impact as a sub. Tuchel did say at some point that he sees Pulisic having that role to begin with or something like that.