15 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

But he's not competing against Mount and Reece he's competing about our dismal selection of wingers.

CHO has been very poor since his injury but surely we need to clearing out deadwood like Pulisic and moving Ziyech on before we even look at a home grown young player like Cho's future.

Personally I think CHO is worthy of a bench role next season provided we ship out the 2 I've mentioned and bring in a new wingers.

If he struggles again next season then it may be best to move him on but I'd be very cautious to move on such a young talented home grown player when the only winger we have that can actually beat a man at pace hasn't even played a game for us yet.

Natural talent means nothing when compared to hunger and dedication. 

If CHO doesn't show it by the end of preseason, he should just be sold. Him and Vinicius are the same age yet he's still treated as a U18 youth product whilst Vinicius is regarded as a professional player. Can't afford him playing like last year

Either loan him to a PL team this season (or similiar level), or sell him. He's just not going to make any headway in our team.

48 minutes ago, Deino said:

yet he's still treated as a U18 youth 

I'd say the opposite. If Pulisic had the form Callum had last autumn and was the 3rd highest (per 90) big chance creator and key passer in the entire league he'd get another two years worth of free passes and probably calls to build the entire team around him.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I'd say the opposite. If Pulisic had the form Callum had last autumn and was the 3rd highest (per 90) big chance creator and key passer in the entire league he'd get another two years worth of free passes and probably calls to build the entire team around him.

That's the thing, CHO has flashes of good form then he disappears, we have given him 4 years worth of chances. He's going to be 22 in Nov, if it doesn't work out for him this year, then it probably means he's not suited to this level. 

Right now, I see him becoming more and more like Ben Arfa

 

7 minutes ago, Deino said:

That's the thing, CHO has flashes of good form then he disappears, we have given him 4 years worth of chances. He's going to be 22 in Nov, if it doesn't work out for him this year, then it probably means he's not suited to this level. 

Right now, I see him becoming more and more like Ben Arfa

 

I mean 4 years in the team yes but 4 years worth of chances?

I understood the limited game time under Sarri because he was still U18 age but Lampard didn't play him even when we had no wingers and Tuchel dropped him last autumn after one bad game when he had a hot run previously, then he came back made decisive impacts against Villa, Spurs and Palmerias and then got injured for the season.

He hasn't got close to the chances Pulisic and Werner have got. If he got the type of runs in the side they have repeatedly been granted (especially on the right with James) and he still wasn't hitting the next level (which I'd agree he has to do despite his very high metrics) and/or we had two wingers producing most weeks then fair enough, but for aslong as he's getting sporadic opportunities while inferior players are getting chance after chance then I don't think a final judgement is fair. 

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

I mean 4 years in the team yes but 4 years worth of chances?

I understood the limited game time under Sarri because he was still U18 age but Lampard didn't play him even when we had no wingers and Tuchel dropped him last autumn after one bad game when he had a hot run previously, then he came back made decisive impacts against Villa, Spurs and Palmerias and then got injured for the season.

He hasn't got close to the chances Pulisic and Werner have got. If he got the type of runs in the side they have repeatedly been granted (especially on the right with James) and he still wasn't hitting the next level (which I'd agree he has to do despite his very high metrics) and/or we had two wingers producing most weeks then fair enough, but for aslong as he's getting sporadic opportunities while inferior players are getting chance after chance then I don't think a final judgement is fair. 

You've raised some very good points, I hope this year is his breakout superstar year. 

On 17/07/2022 at 20:58, RMH said:

The problem with CHO is that he’s been underwhelming (in view of most of the fans  and, dare I say, coaches) for a couple of seasons now, whether due to injuries or due to being played out of position. And I don’t consider him any more one of the youngsters as I don’t consider Reece James or Mount to be young players any more. We should judge him by the same standards that we hold Mason or Reece.

Mason Mount is 2 years older than CHO, 2 years ago he'd only had one season in the Prem and wasn't exactly exceptional, and the year before that he was in the Championship. Despite the amount of games CHO's played he's still really young, and he has a lot of Prem experience now. Reece is a once in a generation talent I feel, I don't think any of our academy players can be compared to him.

15 hours ago, Argo said:

I mean 4 years in the team yes but 4 years worth of chances?

I understood the limited game time under Sarri because he was still U18 age but Lampard didn't play him even when we had no wingers and Tuchel dropped him last autumn after one bad game when he had a hot run previously, then he came back made decisive impacts against Villa, Spurs and Palmerias and then got injured for the season.

He hasn't got close to the chances Pulisic and Werner have got. If he got the type of runs in the side they have repeatedly been granted (especially on the right with James) and he still wasn't hitting the next level (which I'd agree he has to do despite his very high metrics) and/or we had two wingers producing most weeks then fair enough, but for aslong as he's getting sporadic opportunities while inferior players are getting chance after chance then I don't think a final judgement is fair. 

Multiple managers have not picked him, or dropped him.... It says a lot.

Dont get me wrong, Pulisic and Werner have also not been good enough, but that doesnt mean CHO is. It is the same with the whole Tammy Abraham debate. He was not good enough for us, couldnt head, hold the ball, pass or stay on his feet. Just because Lukaku was such a flop, people start saying we should have kept Tammy.

CHO has not done enough, on a regular basis to justify a place in the Chelsea first team. The fact that he is homegrown doenst change that.

I am personally not too worried about CHO. Even right now he is good enough to be a rotational player for us. However he is a winger, if Tuchel allow him to play as winger thhen CHO will be fine but If he insist on playing WB high wide with two 10 then cho is screwed. 

8 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Mason Mount is 2 years older than CHO, 2 years ago he'd only had one season in the Prem and wasn't exactly exceptional, and the year before that he was in the Championship. Despite the amount of games CHO's played he's still really young, and he has a lot of Prem experience now. Reece is a once in a generation talent I feel, I don't think any of our academy players can be compared to him.

I don't agree. Mount may be 2 years older, but had less experience in the PL and, for me, was one of the best players in his first season and got the Chelsea's POTY on his second. And he's been a consistently good player (though I think that he's not been exceptional this season, mostly due to the sheer amount of games that he's played). He came and had such an impact that, despite Tuchel dropping him (and James) on the first game he managed, he was on the starting 11 on the second and has been since undroppable. We can't say the same thing for CHO, despite having been in the first squad for longer. I don't think it is all down to him, he's been mostly played out of position by Tuchel, he's had a bad injury a couple of seasons ago, and he's had some good games here and there, but hasn't made the impact that the other two academy products have had. In any case, I'm just indicating that he shouldn't be judged by the same standards of other academy youths, but by the same standards that any other player of the first squad.

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Multiple managers have not picked him, or dropped him.... It says a lot.

Dont get me wrong, Pulisic and Werner have also not been good enough, but that doesnt mean CHO is. It is the same with the whole Tammy Abraham debate. He was not good enough for us, couldnt head, hold the ball, pass or stay on his feet. Just because Lukaku was such a flop, people start saying we should have kept Tammy.

Multiple managers also decided against putting KDB in the Chelsea squad/team and look what happened there.

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

CHO has not done enough, on a regular basis to justify a place in the Chelsea first team. The fact that he is homegrown doenst change that.

It's a lot different a situation. Firstly Callums form in the autumn didn't warrant being dropped as soon as he had a first meh game (especially not for Pulisic) and even if that wasn't the case we're picking based on the options we have/had and with that in mind, almost every metric puts him ahead of those two.

5 hours ago, Argo said:

Multiple managers also decided against putting KDB in the Chelsea squad/team and look what happened there.

It's a lot different a situation. Firstly Callums form in the autumn didn't warrant being dropped as soon as he had a first meh game (especially not for Pulisic) and even if that wasn't the case we're picking based on the options we have/had and with that in mind, almost every metric puts him ahead of those two.

To be fair, it was only Mourinho who can be said to have "managed" KDB when he was at Chelsea, a manager never known for giving youth a fair crack. Despite this, he still picked a young KDB 9 times in the half a season - not bad for a youngster who was up against Lampard, Ramires, Hazard, Schurle, Oscar, Matic and Willian.

- AVB was in charge when we signed him in the Jan transfer window, but it was always the case that his transfer would happen at the end of the season and he would be  but loaned right back to Genk for the remainder of the season. So nothing on AVB here for not picking him.

- Di Matteo could have given him a first team squad place when he was in charge, but the decision was taken on the back of a Champions League win to get KDB experience in a more competitive league in Germany.  Again, probably the correct decision.

- By the time the FSW was in charge, KDB was already into a season long loan in the Bundesliga so cannot be accused of not picking him.

So really, only Jose can be genuinely accused of not giving KDB sufficient chance, although he did play 9 games in that half a season.  KDB has since admitted that Chelsea didnt want to sell him, but he forced the move...."Chelsea really wanted to keep me and give me a chance, but I really wanted to go..." . Them's the breaks.

In all honesty I would be quite happy to see all our forwards go bar Sterling (who I did not want us to sign but here we are) and Mount, if we consider him a forward. 

Pulisic has had one purple patch in a few years.

Werner cannot control a ball nor stay onside.

CHO finishing is awful.

Havertz is vastly overrated and has a lazy attitude imo.

Ziyech is a showboat that pulls the rabbit out of the hat far too infrequently.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

In all honesty I would be quite happy to see all our forwards go bar Sterling (who I did not want us to sign but here we are) and Mount, if we consider him a forward. 

Pulisic has had one purple patch in a few years.

Werner cannot control a ball nor stay onside.

CHO finishing is awful.

Havertz is vastly overrated and has a lazy attitude imo.

Ziyech is a showboat that pulls the rabbit out of the hat far too infrequently.

The only one i disagree on is Havertz, the only one that is decent in the air and works hard, sometimes he is not at it like he has flu or something yet normally puts in a shift. 

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

In all honesty I would be quite happy to see all our forwards go bar Sterling (who I did not want us to sign but here we are) and Mount, if we consider him a forward. 

Pulisic has had one purple patch in a few years.- Consistently inconsistent - be shocked if Captain America gets 'traded' - he's Todd's 'Golden Goose' for the US market especially during a World Cup year.

Werner cannot control a ball nor stay onside.True, but the kid tries his heart out every time he plays, shame he can't hit a barn door in the premier league.

CHO finishing is awful. Well TBH I have never been a fan. I think he's been overhyped, treated like a prized asset by the club which I think someone has got that all wrong, and IMO even when he has had the chances he has failed to deliver.   Yes I get the injury, but he's been around the first team for 4 or 5 years and never held a regular first team spot.  Why he's never been on loan is a mystery to me, every one else has but he's been the exception because of the over hype. He's an above average player at best...sell him or loan him out it will do him good to see the real world.

Havertz is vastly overrated and has a lazy attitude imo.- I don't think he's lazy or has an attitude problem but once again with TT he's being played out of position and trying to make the best of it.  He glides across the pitch seemingly w/o much effort...can he improve...of course he can and I believe he will this season. 

Ziyech is a showboat that pulls the rabbit out of the hat far too infrequently - now if you would have said he is lazy and attitude I would agree.  I think his work needs to be a lot better especially when we don't have the ball, but he can deliver a killer ball.....unfortunately too infrequently as you pointed out.  If he does leave I hope back to Europe and not stay within the EPL.

 

CHO is still young, give him time I mean how much time did Man United give to their youth to grow, Tuchel shouldn’t give up on CHO. Others have had plenty of playing time and have been largly underwhelming despite being older and what not...

CHO over hyped over paid and needs moving on.

6 hours ago, Gol15 said:

CHO is still young, give him time I mean how much time did Man United give to their youth to grow, Tuchel shouldn’t give up on CHO. Others have had plenty of playing time and have been largly underwhelming despite being older and what not...

Yeah, and look where United are now, they are a terrible example. They haven't produced a top youth player in years, the closest is Rashford and he's coming off the back of a full season of sulking. McTominay is average at best and wouldn't make it into any top 4 team. Then there is Lingard who was given way more time at the club than he deserved. Mount and James alone are better than any academy player United have had in over a decade.

With a proven pro like Sterling I'm much more relaxed to keep CHO.

 

Sterling - Havertz - Mount

 

is a good front three. Callum could be a good back-up here and Pulisic as well. Werner is a player that if we keep his morale intact can be vey helpful over a season imho. Very hard-working reliable guy. The fact that his misses (and partly plain bad luck) became a meme shows that he creates dangerous situations quite often so it's more about him getting at least 15% more clinical to be almost a certain starter. Last years experiment with Lukaku f***ed him up too so that was a waste not totally down on him.

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

CHO is still young, give him time I mean how much time did Man United give to their youth to grow, Tuchel shouldn’t give up on CHO. Others have had plenty of playing time and have been largly underwhelming despite being older and what not...

Why, No other player gets  given the amount of time this kid has had. As a youth he was prolific simply because he was lightning fast. He then got the injury, has never had the same pace since, and has now shown that pace was all he had. I bet the Bayern forum is full of comments of Bullet dodged.

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by WhiteWall

4 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Yeah, and look where United are now, they are a terrible example. They haven't produced a top youth player in years, the closest is Rashford and he's coming off the back of a full season of sulking. McTominay is average at best and wouldn't make it into any top 4 team. Then there is Lingard who was given way more time at the club than he deserved. Mount and James alone are better than any academy player United have had in over a decade.

Their actually not that bad an example imho - Rashford and Greenwood looked the real deal say 2 years ago. Rashford was run into the ground and while Greenwood obviously has other severe problems I think both didn't benefit to become the ManUtd posterboys at such a young age. At some point those youngster should be held back (=be protected) for their own good although the fans run riots to see their academy prospects on the pitch.

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by weetee

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

CHO is still young, give him time I mean how much time did Man United give to their youth to grow, Tuchel shouldn’t give up on CHO. Others have had plenty of playing time and have been largly underwhelming despite being older and what not...

He should have gone on loan in his first or 2nd season with the 1st team and then he would have got the game time he so desired and what others on the forum have wished for him.  So wrong for him to have stayed..stunted his growth as a man and footballer.  The club threw a whole lot of cash at this kid at a very young age, he knows very little else.  And despite all the great players that have come and gone since he joined the first team it appears he's learned not a lot.   Sell him or loan him, which ever the club fancy but don't keep him here for another season to mainly sit on the bench or make the tea.

I believe he starts against Charlotte, lets see what he does..

11 hours ago, CFCCAN said:

I believe he starts against Charlotte, lets see what he does..

Just as well pack his suitcase...yet another 45 mins of his life wasted.

He had a head start on others, came in early for extra training, and still looks trash!

Mr No End Product.

Mr No taking anyone on

Mr No taking any risk

Mr No creativity.

Oh No, its CHO!