24 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

You basically are saying that Jorgi need to be protected because he can't defend and you are 1000% right. You also say Jorgi need a elite partner to cover his defficiency, you are also 1000% right.

So what is jorgi? Like I said before, Harry winks 

 

 

 

I'm saying Jorgi needs to be protected because he's a footballer and we're a football team

Have you ever seen a player defend 1 vs 1 against Saint Maximin? Adama Traore? Zaha?  And that's before you even get to the truly elite players in world football.  It doesn't happen because trying to defend individually against pacey players running at you is fundamentally a really terrible way to defend it isn't because every defensive player on the planet can't defend.

players don't rely on the support of their team mates because they can't defend they do so because if you're standing you're very vulnerable to a player running past you or playing a 1-2 around you whoever you are which is the whole reason teams defend deep instead of trying to form a solid impassable backline on the half way line.

Jorginho has been a part of incredibly defensively solid teams both at club and international level and While @just probably thinks Kante was Italys best player in Euro 2020 Jorgi didn't require any kind of special defensive support. just team mates that have a sense of positional understanding and don't expect Jorginho to deal with all the space around him.

Jorgi is beaten far too easily for the 2nd goal but getting beat there shouldn't lead to goal. 

Watch the goal back and tell me what is Ruben actually doing? Look at his positioning for the goal. He's a far bigger defensive liability than Jorginho and he doesn't have the physical excuse either but we know that which is why Ruben simply can't play in midfield.

Jorginho performs well defensively when alongside team mates that know how to position themselves but if you're expecting him to charge over the pitch winning balls and putting in last ditch tackles he's just not that type of player.

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

6 hours ago, just said:

This part makes me think you probably haven't played competitive football yourself Gol? It's pretty much defensive football 101.

It's pretty basic. For every player that runs past him, every tackle he doesn't win, every block he doesn't make, that usually drags defenders behind him out of position and hugely increases the pressure on them to make decisions. I think now the majority on here understand Jorginho is not a "good" defender. He never has been. He relies 90% of the time on his positioning to make his "defending" work but it's always a high risk strategy because he has no other natural defensive abilities to utilise when his positioning is by-passed.

Well it’s your problem first of all, you blame Jorginho for whatever happens you can literally just log in to post something negative about him. All I’m saying is that when you have known household names such as T.Silva and Koulibaly that it shouldn’t matter if there is some pressure but you see as soon as there is pressure on them we get beaten.

Man City and Liverpool have some of the best defenders in the league and keepers and that’s because they can do their job once their own midfield is out of the play. You seem to lack the basic decency here when you fail to admit that defenders should primarily know how to defend, it’s not the first time we concede a goal as soon as the opposition is making a chance, but I know it’s hard for you since you literally blame Jorginho for everything...

How many times did we look unbeatable due to us keeping possession where our defenders don't need t worry about defending at all and how much of that is all due to having Jorginho in the lineup? But you see, if you expect any midfield combination to not allow any kinds of pressure on our defenders to happen in a full 90 minutes game, the question is then how much of competitive football do you have knowledge about to begin with, after all you don't want us to play with a deeper midfielder that stays back despite the fact that every single top team out there plays like that and you expect Jorginho to not allow our defenders to have a task of actually defending for a full game... That's tough, not even Man City has that, in fact nobody has such a midfielder.

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by Gol15

8 hours ago, Sindre said:

If that clip was five seconds longer we'd also see Mount gifting Southampton the ball and setting off the counter attack. Then half arsing the return run in such a way that he's no help for his team. But yes sure, bash only Jorginho.

He was absolutely crap today too but there is a context to that clip as well.

An attacker lost the ball in a counter attack? Surely that’s par for the course of an attacker? Happens dozens of times in every game, every week. Midfielders getting brushed past like they’re not even there shouldn’t happen at Sunday league level.

12 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Jorginho's 90 minutes of strolling sees him cover nearly 3x the ground Kante and Kovacic do over the season.

Easy to run your ass off when you get a month rest between games.

I'm not defending Jorginho today he was poor and obviously has physical flaws, I'm not going to act like he's the greatest player on the planet but it's ridiculous to blame him for every issue in our midfield and to ask why he keeps getting picked when he's the only midfielder at the club that doesn't attend the NHS Christmas party.

Ideally you play Jorginho alongside a more physical high energy midfielder but given no one can stay fit what is he supposed to do when no one in the team covers for his weaknesses?

No, ideally he f**ks off back to Italy. Not even got close to a league title since he's been here and won't until he leaves.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

No, ideally he f**ks off back to Italy. Not even got close to a league title since he's been here and won't until he leaves.

Indicidentally that was also the last time Kante had a good season.

Jorginho would have won at least 4 league titles if he'd gone to City when Pep offered £50m for him.

There are far bigger problems than Jorginho in this team.

Our midfield is just..sh*t. let's be brutally honest.

Jorginho offers very little except short passes.
Kante when on form and fit is still good, but it's so rare these days, he's practically a ghost.
Kovacic likewise, is never fit.
Loftus-Cheek just doesn't have what it takes to control a midfield at this level.

Who else does that leave us with? Gilmour? Chukwemeka? Playing defenders or wingers in midfield?

We've spent all summer trying tyo strength the backline, which, yes, did need reinforcements, but we seem to have ignored the gaping hole in the middle of the field.

Never been a massive fan of Jorginho but at times I have stuck up for him and appreciate the "horses for courses" argument and he can be useful in certain games.

But opposition managers and teams are not stupid and they have identified Jorginho's weaknesses (of which there are many). It has become obvious that playing him in away games when teams (and even average but well drilled sides like Leeds and Saints), will put him under pressure, he WILL struggle and ultimately buckle. Complete waste of time playing him in such games and as for making him captain? Has there ever been such a lightweight captain? Couldn't think of a player I would want less in tough away games. No wonder we are so easy to beat.

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Never been a massive fan of Jorginho but at times I have stuck up for him and appreciate the "horses for courses" argument and he can be useful in certain games.

But opposition managers and teams are not stupid and they have identified Jorginho's weaknesses (of which there are many). It has become obvious that playing him in away games when teams (and even average but well drilled sides like Leeds and Saints), will put him under pressure, he WILL struggle and ultimately buckle. Complete waste of time playing him in such games and as for making him captain? Has there ever been such a lightweight captain? Couldn't think of a player I would want less in tough away games. No wonder we are so easy to beat.

He's the vice-captain, Lampard's decision so when Dave isn't there it's only natural. Tuchel could make T.Silva the captain as he had at some point the armband shortly after signing if I remember correctly but all 3 of them are 30+. 

Maybe him not giving everything physically because it's not part of his game is exactly the reason why Jorgi is able to stay fit while Kante and Kova are not. If you don't sprint, tackle and try to be everywhere on the pitch you don't run the risk of getting injured as easily. Just a thought.

32 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Maybe him not giving everything physically because it's not part of his game is exactly the reason why Jorgi is able to stay fit while Kante and Kova are not. If you don't sprint, tackle and try to be everywhere on the pitch you don't run the risk of getting injured as easily. Just a thought.

Undoubtedly something in that, Kovacic has been on the end of some nasty challenges and probably because he does break defensive lines. 

44 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Maybe him not giving everything physically because it's not part of his game is exactly the reason why Jorgi is able to stay fit while Kante and Kova are not. If you don't sprint, tackle and try to be everywhere on the pitch you don't run the risk of getting injured as easily. Just a thought.

It helps when like last night he had three choices a) tackle the attacker b) bring him down c) stand aside and let him run past

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

Maybe him not giving everything physically because it's not part of his game is exactly the reason why Jorgi is able to stay fit while Kante and Kova are not. If you don't sprint, tackle and try to be everywhere on the pitch you don't run the risk of getting injured as easily. Just a thought.

So basically don't give a 100%? Excellent.

We need more of those type of players. Because at least they'll stay fit.

That post has to be a new low for the J5 apologists.

 

1 hour ago, charierre said:

It helps when like last night he had three choices a) tackle the attacker b) bring him down c) stand aside and let him run past

You forgot d) 

24 minutes ago, just said:

So basically don't give a 100%? Excellent.

We need more of those type of players. Because at least they'll stay fit.

That post has to be a new low for the J5 apologists.

 

Why apologist? Au contraire, my friend, it was just an observation. Some people are mad at N'golo and Mateo for not staying fit when Kante was run into the ground by Sarri (imho) and Kova was on the receiving end of some career ending tackles in the last few seasons. In the end both of them must do the work Jorgi can't when playing with him.

I've said this before; to me Jorgi is a player like Busquets. He's intelligent, has very good positioning and keeps a team ticking. He has his uses and excels at certain things. But he can only do that if his teammates give him the space to do so. He won't ever shine in a game where his midfield partner (if it's a pivot) doesn't know what he's doing. And that will never change. I think we can all agree that Busquets is class, right? But I promise you if you put Gallagher or RLC next to him and play him against a mid-tier PL team he's gonna have a terrible time.

Solid back 3 and a Kante ( or similar type) is the per-requisiste for Jorginho to prosper, right now we don't have either. If Kovacic is fit, he will help in ball retention and create chances, but not so much in defence. I'm not convinced with Kovacic & RLC either, but given where we are it's probably worth a go.

10 hours ago, charierre said:

It helps when like last night he had three choices a) tackle the attacker b) bring him down c) stand aside and let him run past

Let's be honest, options A and B were just illusions for most of the game. 

12 hours ago, Vagabond said:

Maybe him not giving everything physically because it's not part of his game is exactly the reason why Jorgi is able to stay fit while Kante and Kova are not. If you don't sprint, tackle and try to be everywhere on the pitch you don't run the risk of getting injured as easily. Just a thought.

This is a joke right, or sarcasm at the very least. No way to do you actually believe this.

Eddy > J5, Kovacic, Kante

12 hours ago, coco said:

You forgot d) 

e) tackle on the ball not the player (not having seen a minute of the match  )

Edited September 1, 20223 yr by Valerie

2 hours ago, dkw said:

This is a joke right, or sarcasm at the very least. No way to do you actually believe this.

🙃😝

On 31/08/2022 at 13:40, HazardousChoice said:

Indicidentally that was also the last time Kante had a good season.

Jorginho would have won at least 4 league titles if he'd gone to City when Pep offered £50m for him.

There are far bigger problems than Jorginho in this team.

City would have lost out on 2 out of 4 of their last league titles to Liverpool if they had Jorginho in front of their defence. 

Going to cost you minimum 9 points a season by himself. 

15 hours ago, Vagabond said:

I think we can all agree that Busquets is class, right? But I promise you if you put Gallagher or RLC next to him and play him against a mid-tier PL team he's gonna have a terrible time.

He will do just fine, Busquets is so good on the ball. 

19 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

He will do just fine, Busquets is so good on the ball. 

He's actually better on the ball than Jorginho, he could play indoor football too. After all he's a part of the golden Spanish generation.

52 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

He will do just fine, Busquets is so good on the ball. 

Strongly disagree. He's an overall better player and it won't be as bad as with Jorgi. But the point was that his style is similar and almost any PL team can exploit physical weakness nowadays. Busquets is a bit less, but still much more reliant on his teammates around him than players like Verrati, De Jong, Brozovic, Casemiro, Kimmich etc. who bring a physical aspect to their game.

Arthur set for a Liverpool loan, could that lead to a late Juve move for Jorgi?