Frank will be sacked if we don’t look like getting into the top 4. That’s the requirement. 
Frank doesn’t seem to have anything to fallback on as a manager when things go wrong. 
‘the team keeps on getting chopped and changed for no apparent reason. as soon as we had a couple of bad games Zouma was dropped but he is better than Rudigier in both defence and attack. 
We do have a style but it’s turning out to be crap one. Slow and;possession based in attack with fullbacks pushedreally forward to put in predictable crosses and then being out of position when the counter attack is on. The style doesn’t suit the players we bought. 

werners form has gone off and havertz hasn’t delivered at all really but I don’t get a sense that frank has any idea how to fix it. 

mourinho has many faults but look at how NDombele is playing now. 
 I would love frank to succeed, when he was first a;pointed I was agin it. When we made top 4 I changed my mind but now the recent slump brings out the flaws and lack of management experience more clearly. 
Probably a couple good results and I’ll change my mind again. LOL but I don’t think so. I think he’s stuffed it up and doesn’t really know how to fixit. 
 

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

You know I really enjoy the different views and I respect those who think Frank is not the right man for the job anymore and a change would improve us. Putting forward ideas as to who could take over and changes they could see made. While I want Frank to have more time I respect the right to those views that he should not get it 

What I dont respect is those taking enjoyment from point scoring on Frank, like they are enjoying him being in this position .

Frank deserves respect, he is a man who is always involved in discussions as our best ever player, who bleeds blue, who loves the club like we are all supposed to.

There are some on here that fit the title of "plastic" perfectly.

I couldn’t agree more Axeman, it’s pitiful.

Do these so called supporters think that Frank is not trying his arse off to get things right.

one thing you can guarantee with Frank, however much we are all down and hurting he’s feeling it too.

 

4 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I couldn’t agree more Axeman, it’s pitiful.

Do these so called supporters think that Frank is not trying his arse off to get things right.

one thing you can guarantee with Frank, however much we are all down and hurting he’s feeling it too.

 

Name me one person on here who's said "Frank isn't trying".

There's a difference between no effort, and poor work performance. 

20 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Name me one person on here who's said "Frank isn't trying".

There's a difference between no effort, and poor work performance. 

Yeah there are perfectly valid criticisms of frank and everyone who is "Frank out" is just highlighting that. It doesn't change my view of him as a player 

Ive been called a plastic fan by one of the old farts on here because I want chelsea to win games. It's ridiculous. 

 

12 hours ago, chi blue said:

Tottenham and Arsenal away last season were two of the best away days I’ve been to in recent years

Jealous that you were actually able to get tickets for these games

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

You know I really enjoy the different views and I respect those who think Frank is not the right man for the job anymore and a change would improve us. Putting forward ideas as to who could take over and changes they could see made. While I want Frank to have more time I respect the right to those views that he should not get it 

What I dont respect is those taking enjoyment from point scoring on Frank, like they are enjoying him being in this position .

Frank deserves respect, he is a man who is always involved in discussions as our best ever player, who bleeds blue, who loves the club like we are all supposed to.

There are some on here that fit the title of "plastic" perfectly.

First, I would like to begin with an apology towards the entire forum that I might have come a bit "plastic" or any way you put it my recent comments regarding Frank and his sacking. Most of those times it was frustration speaking and I was not thinking clearly so it might have sounded offensive, rude even. So, when the frustration is over, I decided to step in with the apology and I just came across your comment which I think is the perfect for my needs. 

Now, I will be speaking for myself here and I think most of the other guys who are pro on releasing Frank are on the same boat. I have been a supporter of the club for more than 20 years now. The first game I saw was against Barca in the 99/00 UCL and I immediately fell in love with the club when we had Zola, Flo, Gronkjaer, Desailly, etc. I was never keen on giving the boot to the managers after a poor string of results and this dates back to Claudio in the first season with Roman. Then we move on to Mou, Carlo and Antonio. Carlo's sacking hurt especially as I still think that if he was backed after his second season, he would have taken us to the next level.

Anyway, enough with the pep talk. Ever since Frank has been appointed, I wanted him to succeed, very badly. I still do because becoming a force to be reckoned with and having Frank at the wheel will be a fairy tail we are all dreaming of. However, there are a lot of reasons why most of the fans here are calling for some change. In the current string of results, we are seeing the same sloppy play, no drive, no rush, no creativity, still the same players are being selected despite them failing Frank game after game. We did not see any willingness from his end to adapt to the current situation and mix it up a little bit. Whether its a change of tactics, formation even playing the bloody kids in a PL games without having any of the seniors from the squad just to show them that no one is bigger than the club. No, we got the same old selection and boring play which makes me think that either Frank is out of his depth of he does not have what it takes to fix this, at least not yet.

Even in the cup games against lower sides we were looking sloppy and lazy and just the lack of quality with those teams did not cause any headaches. If Frank shows some versatility in our next game by adjusting something in the way we play or just come up with something unexpected, I am sure the fans will be behind him again and will be eager to see him complete his contract.

This is just me and I hope I was able to make a valid point and did not sound ridiculous. 

19 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Yeah there are perfectly valid criticisms of frank and everyone who is "Frank out" is just highlighting that. It doesn't change my view of him as a player 

Ive been called a plastic fan by one of the old farts on here because I want chelsea to win games. It's ridiculous. 

 

I'll never knock the passion from the Old Guard on here, many old school Chelsea supporters on this forum that grew up during 70's and 80's football so I can understand where they're coming from. Me myself, I've been fortunate, or maybe unfortunate to grow up in such an era where we had great success. So, I expect that success to continue, I don't like to hear stuff such as "Well if we don't finish top 4 it's fine", we haven't competed for the title in 4 years now, that's concerning me. 

I want this club to get their act together, we've all seen how Arsenal fans went from celebrating the league to celebrating 4th place. Sadly, I think there are many Chelsea supporters that no matter what, they won't want Frank to go. 

Our wages bill is commensurate with top 4. And wages is generally highly correlated with actual position. 

53 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I couldn’t agree more Axeman, it’s pitiful.

Do these so called supporters think that Frank is not trying his arse off to get things right.

one thing you can guarantee with Frank, however much we are all down and hurting he’s feeling it too.

 

The only fans I see on here trying to point score are the ones thinking they are more loyal fans of the club because they are backing Frank no matter how crap we do.

Frank is a legend so it's pretty dumb to think any fan enjoy seeing him fail wasting, wasting their time on this forum stating reasons why he should be sacked

12 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Our poor form has lasted more than a few matches. More like half a dozen. No one was complaining after Leeds because we got the result and even then the performance wasn't great.

I’m focusing on this small part becuase I keep seeing a reference to this... 6 whole games? Are people seriously pushing for managers to be replaced every time we play badly for 6 games? You’re having a pop at @yorkleyblue but just think about that, SIX games which included Leicester, City & Arsenal over the Christmas period where we’re traditionally poor? How is that not knee-jerk? 

1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I’m focusing on this small part becuase I keep seeing a reference to this... 6 whole games? Are people seriously pushing for managers to be replaced every time we play badly for 6 games? You’re having a pop at @yorkleyblue but just think about that, SIX games which included Leicester, City & Arsenal over the Christmas period where we’re traditionally poor? How is that not knee-jerk? 

We haven't played well since Leeds, that's more than 6 games. 

7 minutes ago, Slojo said:

We haven't played well since Leeds, that's more than 6 games. 

Well that’s not half a dozen then is it? I also disagree, we played well against West Ham, I don’t recall them having a single shot on target in that game.

Edit; that also just pulls in Everton who have been very good this year & Wolves who we have beaten only twice in the last 5 meetings. (Both under Frank btw)

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by EdinburghBlue

2 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I’m focusing on this small part becuase I keep seeing a reference to this... 6 whole games? Are people seriously pushing for managers to be replaced every time we play badly for 6 games? You’re having a pop at @yorkleyblue but just think about that, SIX games which included Leicester, City & Arsenal over the Christmas period where we’re traditionally poor? How is that not knee-jerk? 

That doesn't mean the other dozen of so games before have been good. We've had a mixed bag of results and performances in the league before then. 

3 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Well that’s not half a dozen then is it? I also disagree, we played well against West Ham, I don’t recall them having a single shot on target in that game.

The West ham game was a poor performance that flattered us but a good result. I'll take that every time but reality is we keep stringing both bad performances and bad results 

32 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I'll never knock the passion from the Old Guard on here, many old school Chelsea supporters on this forum that grew up during 70's and 80's football so I can understand where they're coming from. Me myself, I've been fortunate, or maybe unfortunate to grow up in such an era where we had great success. So, I expect that success to continue, I don't like to hear stuff such as "Well if we don't finish top 4 it's fine", we haven't competed for the title in 4 years now, that's concerning me. 

I want this club to get their act together, we've all seen how Arsenal fans went from celebrating the league to celebrating 4th place. Sadly, I think there are many Chelsea supporters that no matter what, they won't want Frank to go. 

I just think the old guard have completely forgotten what they were actually feeling in the 80s when "we were sh*t". They didn't want Chelsea to be sh*t! They wanted success. 

I didn't like us losing in the 94 cup final. I loved when we won the 97 cup final. I was pissed off when Ruud left the club at Ken Bates. These are all normal emotions for any football fan. 

4 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The West ham game was a poor performance that flattered us but a good result. I'll take that every time but reality is we keep stringing both bad performances and bad results 

Game of opinions, was it not you a few pages back that said you loved the park the bus if we won? (Apologies if I’ve got you confused with another poster). We scored 3 goals and conceded zero goals or even shots on target. That’s a good performance I’d say, was it a steller one? No but still good. Also, as we love stats on the forum. The xG from that game was Chelsea - 2.39 & West Ham - 0.57 so our performance more than merited winning the game even judging by the stats.

Oh no, 3 points down is massive, sack him now.....Klopp is 14 down on last season, he must be favourite for the sack then?

For comparison heres the table last season after 18/19 games. I think it highlights just how all over the place this season is. You only have to look at the jumps in points for non European competition teams like West ham, Everton, Southampton etc to see the impact the schedule is having on this season.

 

Played    position    team                 points    2020    +/-
19                 1         Man Utd              40          28     +12
18                 2         Man City              38          38      0
19                 3         Leicester city        38          39      -1
18                 4         Liverpool              34          52    -14
18                 5         Tottenham           33          29     +4
17                 6         Everton                32          22    +10
19                 7         West Ham            32          19    +13
19                 8         Chelsea                29          32     -3
18                 9         Southampton      29           21     +8
19                10        Arsenal                27           24    +3
 

19 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Well that’s not half a dozen then is it? I also disagree, we played well against West Ham, I don’t recall them having a single shot on target in that game.

Edit; that also just pulls in Everton who have been very good this year & Wolves who we have beaten only twice in the last 5 meetings. (Both under Frank btw)

We didn't play well against West Ham at all, we won the game but that doesn't mean you played well. I remember how badly we were struggling until Abraham got the snap goals, it looked like West Ham were about to win the game. 

I think I can clear this up (apologies for some spelling) 

2 Dec   Savilla 0 Chelsea 4 - great performance 

5 Dec   Chelsea 3  Leeds  1 - despite Leeds taking a lucky lead great performance 

8 Dec  Chelsea 1 Krasnacor 1   dicked around with the team as we had already qualified 

12  Dec  Everton 1  Chelsea 0   Shame, tough game away from home, should have done better

15  Dec  Wolves 2  Chelsea 1   Bad, starting to get a little worried about 2 matches in a row 

21   Dec  Chelsea 3 West Ham 0  Back at the bridge and looking good 

26  Dec  Arsenal 3 Chelsea 1   The dreaded away Christmas game Arsenal desperate for a result, we were poor 

28 Dec Chelsea 1 Aston Villa 1   Disappointing at home  

3 Jan   Chelsea 1  Man City 3    Again disappointing at home but City are rampant and clear title favorites now I believe that is the level we need to get too 

10 Jan  Chelsea 4 Morecome 0  Well ok 

16 Jan  Fulham 0 Chelsea 1  Away win nice and Fulham had improved of late

19 Jan  Everton 2 Chelsea 0   Away disappointing along with some bad luck and lackluster looking 

 

Okay it is not great but I count 5 losses and a draw we maybe could have hoped for better by now so that's the 6? , its called bad form, all teams suffer and there are some excellent results in there as well. We got to do better against the top 6 teams lets say. Not such a huge crime I think.  

If Lampard goes it can't be called knee-jerk. Even when results have been ok, performances have not been convincing. I'd love nothing more than to see Frank get it right though.

If the successor lined up is Tuchel, I'd rather stick with Lamps until the end of the season, take an 8th place finish and see if there is a better option then (would love Brendan Rodgers personally. Puts faith in youth, plays great football and knows how to use a pacey striker - Vardy / Werner?).  Tuchel is not inspiring as a replacement. Sacking Lampard would also be worrying as for the first time we can see a manager and a coaching team prepared to trust young players and develop them. Last thing I would want is us reverting to the win now, forget about tomorrow mentality. The rumours about Haland also concern me because then youve got very expensive attackers and no room for CHO, Tammy or any of the other youngsters who are waiting to break through.

It's hard watching us at the minute and our defensive frailties have never been convincingly addressed which is a concern. Our patterns of play look bereft of ideas too. If i see Mendy to Silva to Rudiger to Chilwell back to Rudiger, to Silva to James and back to Silva one more time, I'll cry. I enjoyed Rudiger pumping one long in the first 30 seconds vs Leicester because it felt like maybe we would go a bit more direct but later in the game it was back to 20 passes along the back 4 with not real threat posed.

I'm still backing Frank and dreading turning on the news to see he has been sacked. I think it feels inevitable, especially given our history, but I would love Roman and Marina to surprise everybody and accept a poor season with the intention of sticking to the plan and allowing a young team to develop without disruption. Having said that, I think they should lean havily on Frank to bring in a very experienced coach who specialises in defence, like when Wenger brought Steve Bould in to Arsenal. Lampard and Morris are great but we need to sort the defence properly, then get some hard work done on the training pitch to develop attacking patterns of play that dont completely rely on crossing fro the full-backs

2 minutes ago, Coxy15 said:

If Lampard goes it can't be called knee-jerk. Even when results have been ok, performances have not been convincing. I'd love nothing more than to see Frank get it right though.

If the successor lined up is Tuchel, I'd rather stick with Lamps until the end of the season, take an 8th place finish and see if there is a better option then (would love Brendan Rodgers personally. Puts faith in youth, plays great football and knows how to use a pacey striker - Vardy / Werner?).  Tuchel is not inspiring as a replacement. Sacking Lampard would also be worrying as for the first time we can see a manager and a coaching team prepared to trust young players and develop them. Last thing I would want is us reverting to the win now, forget about tomorrow mentality. The rumours about Haland also concern me because then youve got very expensive attackers and no room for CHO, Tammy or any of the other youngsters who are waiting to break through.

Out of curiosity why do you (and others who this also falls under can answer it) not rate Tuchel? If it's because he can be a bit confrontational fair enough but if it's tactical reason's then may i ask why? His style is well suited to modern football and the players we have/direction we've headed in since Sarri and he gives youth a chance (not so much at PSG but he brought through Pulisic and Dembele at BVB). If we got him i think he'll surprise people similar to how Conte did.

Put it this way he's a better fit for our needs than Pochettino who people fell over themselves for.

We have 8 wins in 19 games in the league. I think you need to do a whole lot of mental gymnastics and it would still be a huge stretch to argue that we have been doing fine part from some "expected loses" vs Man City for example.

It also doesn't matter if some still want to live in the 80's or whatever, that is simply not relevant here we are a big club that shouldn't adopt this "we don't deserve anything, not even a top10 position" because if that was the case Jose wouldn't have been sacked and don't get me started with Conte/Ancelotti, so we should stick to the here and now.

Personally I don't mind if we become like Arsenal I would still be happy for every win we get but that shouldn't be talked about like a real possibility since we have been a top 4, top 3 club in the most recent years. 

We all want Lampard to succeed but it's totally valid to think that we should do better. Lampard himself doesn't want us to become mediocre he knows what the club wants and he shares that ambition.

He has the full right to finish this season no matter what happens, this is my stance.

But if we fail to reach top 5 then he shouldn't be our manager next season, I fail to see why would he risk his image by staying after not being good enough and why would the club just accept that.

If someone can come up with a real argument that isn't just "he signed a 3-year contract so he must not leave before that" I would be happy to change my opinion but the fact is his job is to get us the results we are after and we can't just pretend that our goal isn't to be among the top 4-5 teams in the league, after all we finished top 4 with a worse squad last season.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Out of curiosity why do you (and others who this also falls under can answer it) not rate Tuchel? If it's because he can be a bit confrontational fair enough but if it's tactical reason's then may i ask why? His style is well suited to modern football and the players we have/direction we've headed in since Sarri and he gives youth a chance (not so much at PSG but he brought through Pulisic and Dembele at BVB). If we got him i think he'll surprise people similar to how Conte did.

Put it this way he's a better fit for our needs than Pochettino who people fell over themselves for.

I wouldn't say I dont rate him. Honestly, I dont know enough about him and that's why he would be underwhelming for me. As a mid-season appointment it would be a strange one as he would need time to adjust to the league so would it lead to any real improvement this year as opposed to waiting until summer? I know PSG fans were fed up of him by the end but I dont know why that is. Im not against him per se, just think if that is the option then I'd rather stick with Frank until the summer.

Lack of exciting alternatives mid-season is one reason why I dont think sacking Frank would be beneficial.

16 hours ago, chi blue said:

f**king brilliant, and total sense spoken in amongst all the bollox spoken by others, I will ask the question, why the hell did all these JCL’s decide to support Chelsea, and now we haven’t won every game this season, it might be worth them supporting someone else

Cheers.  The phrase "glory hunting" comes to mind.  That and the way that the want it all generation have taken to social meeja.

14 hours ago, pcmacca said:

Sorry but again the problem is that Rodgers had bags of experience and success to fall back on. Frank's bags are kind of empty.

Can you tell me exactly what success Rodgers has had?  Premier League, FA Cup or League Cup, Champions League, Thursday night cup? Anything? (and try not to make yourself look too silly)

14 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

So the results against Liverpool , Tottenham, Utd in the semis, and other performances last season were nothing to do with Frank ?

Only the bad performances can be blamed on the manager ,mate, don't you realise that?

37 minutes ago, Slojo said:

We haven't played well since Leeds, that's more than 6 games. 

Someone else has listed the matches, scores and performances.  My point was we STILL have only lost 6 matches, and that includes City, Liverpool, Leicester and Arsenal at Christmas and that anyone demanding managerial sackings half way through the season based on that is showing an embarrassing spoilt bratness. (If that is indeed a word.  If not, it should be.)

It's also comical that so many experts in here know exactly what the board agreed with Frank as to his 3-year goals and also know exactly what needs to be done to rectify the horrendous situation where we are a full 9 points off of the top spot.  As @dkw pointed out, Liverpool are 14 points worse off and several league places lower than this time last year.  Why isn't there a clamour for Klopp to be sacked and replaced by a new, shiny manager who has been sacked by another team with feckless supporters.

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

Out of curiosity why do you (and others who this also falls under can answer it) not rate Tuchel? If it's because he can be a bit confrontational fair enough but if it's tactical reason's then may i ask why? His style is well suited to modern football and the players we have/direction we've headed in since Sarri and he gives youth a chance (not so much at PSG but he brought through Pulisic and Dembele at BVB). If we got him i think he'll surprise people similar to how Conte did.

Put it this way he's a better fit for our needs than Pochettino who people fell over themselves for.

T.Silva said that there were problems in PSG while he was there, that the players knew that something was missing, he implied that him getting sacked was pretty much expected from what I understand. Nagelsmann might be better than Tuchel but like you say Tuchel could do very well and surprise everyone...

Still I believe that Lampard deserves to finish this season. If we fail to get the result then the board should consider who is the best option. Allegri might still be the best option on paper if he gets backed by the board, he had a 70% win rate with Juventus and he took them to the CL final.