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4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Best player since the restart. A mistake last game and all of sudden he’s a championship level player. This forum never fails to surprise me some times. 

No one is calling him a championship level player but what is your yardstick for this “best player” since the restart? He was our worst player against Sheff Utd, Watford and marginally better than Alonso against City. He has started 11 of our 15 PL games this year & has only 2assists & 1 goal. 
 

He has a good engine but he is no way a difference maker for a potential top 4 club.

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10 minutes ago, ducavis said:

No one is calling him a championship level player but what is your yardstick for this “best player” since the restart? He was our worst player against Sheff Utd, Watford and marginally better than Alonso against City. He has started 11 of our 15 PL games this year & has only 2assists & 1 goal. 
 

He has a good engine but he is no way a difference maker for a potential top 4 club.

Have you watched the game against Watford?

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24 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Best player since the restart. A mistake last game and all of sudden he’s a championship level player. This forum never fails to surprise me some times. 

Behind Pulisic to me though but I agree.

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1 hour ago, ducavis said:

No one is calling him a championship level player but what is your yardstick for this “best player” since the restart? He was our worst player against Sheff Utd, Watford and marginally better than Alonso against City. He has started 11 of our 15 PL games this year & has only 2assists & 1 goal. 
 

He has a good engine but he is no way a difference maker for a potential top 4 club.

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Not a mistake.
An unacceptable mistake that with a decent coach he would not put his boots back on.

Nothing new in this championship player who believes himself to be another rockstar, Lampard's fetish, one more.
On our beautiful cross.

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13 hours ago, ducavis said:

No one is calling him a championship level player but what is your yardstick for this “best player” since the restart? He was our worst player against Sheff Utd, Watford and marginally better than Alonso against City. He has started 11 of our 15 PL games this year & has only 2assists & 1 goal. 
 

He has a good engine but he is no way a difference maker for a potential top 4 club.

No he wasnt, he wasnt the worst player in those games at all. So now all our players need to a difference maker, is that the "yardstick" now? Why are you only giving goals and stats for this year, why not the season as is the usual way? I honestly dont understand things like this, fans have been whining for years about getting youth players into the team, yet here we have a midfielder who has stepped up and been mostly excellent all season and fans are desperate to hammer him at times. 

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13 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Best player since the restart. A mistake last game and all of sudden he’s a championship level player. This forum never fails to surprise me some times. 

I was never one for judging other people’s opinions before but lately I have to agree. It makes you wonder what games some of these folk are watching. It’s like they just forget the games where Mount didn’t play and the team was lethargic/lacking energy. Or they follow these chelsea twitter accounts and flip flop their opinions to fall in line with them. He comes on and it lifts the entire team. Unfortunately if he doesn’t get all the G/A’s for his stats he’ll always be sh*te to some. Played badly against Sheffield United but so did all the 10 other players on the park but what two get highlighted the most? Mount & Abraham - surprise, surprise.

 

Folk clamouring for us to play the kids for years and then when we do, toys are flying out the pram because we’re not cruising to a top 4 finish.

Edited by EdinburghBlue
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26 minutes ago, dkw said:

No he wasnt, he wasnt the worst player in those games at all. So now all our players need to a difference maker, is that the "yardstick" now? Why are you only giving goals and stats for this year, why not the season as is the usual way? I honestly dont understand things like this, fans have been whining for years about getting youth players into the team, yet here we have a midfielder who has stepped up and been mostly excellent all season and fans are desperate to hammer him at times. 

For me he wasn’t but depends on what you value in a playmaker, most performance stats metrics (Whoscored, Sofascore etc) also support that. No one is cussing him or suggesting he should be sold, we would all be happy if he develops into a solid squad player. I don’t understand why he gets a pass when every other youth player gets analysed.

IMO his key metrics don’t suggest he should be playing as the farthest midfielder. His passing stats are way too high which suggests he is not adventurous with the ball, dribbling stats are too low, doesn’t make enough key passes & doesn’t create enough chances. When your best attributes are pressing & off the ball movements- Maybe ideally he should be deeper & competing with Kovacic/RLC & not just walking into the team.

Edited by ducavis
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19 minutes ago, dkw said:

No he wasnt, he wasnt the worst player in those games at all. So now all our players need to a difference maker, is that the "yardstick" now? Why are you only giving goals and stats for this year, why not the season as is the usual way? I honestly dont understand things like this, fans have been whining for years about getting youth players into the team, yet here we have a midfielder who has stepped up and been mostly excellent all season and fans are desperate to hammer him at times. 

It comes down to who is the social media flavour of the month mate. It’s the reason Tammy (despite being our top goalscorer - still!) is being written off as a championship player. Mason (one of our best players this season has also been called a championship player) but Reece (who I like as a player btw) is hailed as the second coming off Cafu/Alves hybrid despite being pretty sh*te every time he’s played in the first team. They’re all young players and it blows my mind that people are struggling with the concept of them being inconsistent.

Where was Lampard at their age? Ahhh yes - playing for West Ham before we signed him in 2001 at 23, where he didn’t exactly pull up any trees.

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1 minute ago, ducavis said:

For me he was but depends on what you value in a playmaker, most performance stats metrics (Whoscored, Sofascore etc) also support that. No one is cussing him or suggesting he should be sold, we would all be happy if he develops into a solid squad player. I don’t understand why he gets a pass when every other youth player gets analysed.

IMO his key metric don’t suggest he should be playing as the farthest midfielder. His passing stats are way too high which suggests he is not adventurous with the ball, dribbling stats are too low, doesn’t make enough key passes & doesn’t create enough chances. 

So your basing it all on his stats.....sigh. 

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9 minutes ago, dkw said:

So your basing it all on his stats.....sigh. 

What do you base your playmaker/ 10s performance on? Never heard a De Bruyne/Bruno being judged on their off the ball pressing. To be fair to him he is still young & might develop certain aspects of his game, for me the jury is still out.

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9 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It comes down to who is the social media flavour of the month mate. It’s the reason Tammy (despite being our top goalscorer - still!) is being written off as a championship player. Mason (one of our best players this season has also been called a championship player) but Reece (who I like as a player btw) is hailed as the second coming off Cafu/Alves hybrid despite being pretty sh*te every time he’s played in the first team. They’re all young players and it blows my mind that people are struggling with the concept of them being inconsistent.

Where was Lampard at their age? Ahhh yes - playing for West Ham before we signed him in 2001 at 23, where he didn’t exactly pull up any trees.

I've noticed the forum has been enriched with a few new members who consistently use the words 'championship' (for players and coaching staff) and 'Lampard's fetish' and words of that ilk, in a variation of Bullsh*t Bingo. Completely cringe-worthy. I can only assume they expected a 38 match winning streak, and our entire squad and head coach winning every award under the sun. Reality is a bitch.

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16 minutes ago, ducavis said:

What do you base your playmaker/ 10s performance on? Never heard a De Bruyne/Bruno being judged on their off the ball pressing. To be fair to him he is still young & might develop certain aspects of his game, for me the jury is still out.

Watching him play, I know, called me old fashioned but I would rather base his performances on what I have seen from him and what he has given to the team in games rather than some numbers. The modern fans love of stats is sh*t.

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

Watching him play, I know, called me old fashioned but I would rather base his performances on what I have seen from him and what he has given to the team in games rather than some numbers. The modern fans love of stats is sh*t.

You're an old fashioned romantic, Dicky, Watching him play, whatever next...

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He does bring energy to the field, but I still don't think he should be an automatic starter because of it. We can definitely make a better signing to play that position (Havertz for example), but for the time being he's okay to be there. As a squad player though he's great and its good to keep him.

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46 minutes ago, ducavis said:

What do you base your playmaker/ 10s performance on? Never heard a De Bruyne/Bruno being judged on their off the ball pressing. To be fair to him he is still young & might develop certain aspects of his game, for me the jury is still out.

Mount isn't our number 10 / play maker. He's not supposed to be Bruno or KDB.

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I get the criticism, however it can be ober the top, especially on twitter. 

If you ever saw him for the youth teams, or Vitesse, he is definitely more capable in the final 3rd than what he has shown this season, but i think it important to remember his age and his experience.

He is working hard and keeping things simple, and im hoping as he matures, we will start to see more of his true ability, because he is a good finisher with either foot, and he can pick out those killer passes aswell. 

I think he will go on to be a very good player for us. Abraham is the one im worried about, he needs to improve technically which is difficult at 22. 

Its been a nice season to see what this academy has got, not all of them will be good enough in the long run, but its great to see them contributing as heavily as they have. Ive always said that the academy should be used to bolster the squad, and stop us spending money on squad players, so we can invest it in a better core. At the very least we have proven these players are good enough to be a part of the squad, which makes the academy a massive success. 

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44 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Mount isn't our number 10 / play maker. He's not supposed to be Bruno or KDB.

Half of his appearances this season has been in that role though. If we assume he is a MC in a 4-3-3 then he has to be in competition & judged alongside Barkley, RLC & Kovacic presently & not a case of Mount + Jorginho/Kante + 1. What do I know though; those who have been watching him & using the eye test say he has been one of our best players since the break.

 

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2 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I was never one for judging other people’s opinions before but lately I have to agree. It makes you wonder what games some of these folk are watching. It’s like they just forget the games where Mount didn’t play and the team was lethargic/lacking energy. Or they follow these chelsea twitter accounts and flip flop their opinions to fall in line with them. He comes on and it lifts the entire team. Unfortunately if he doesn’t get all the G/A’s for his stats he’ll always be sh*te to some. Played badly against Sheffield United but so did all the 10 other players on the park but what two get highlighted the most? Mount & Abraham - surprise, surprise.

 

Folk clamouring for us to play the kids for years and then when we do, toys are flying out the pram because we’re not cruising to a top 4 finish.

Absolutely.
"Give the kids a chance"
"Why?"
"So we can f**king hammer them as soon as they have a below-par performance"

Absolutely ridiculous. Looking at it another way, if we get top 4 and Mount has played every game and, in the eyes of some, been poor, then imagine where we'll be when he's a fully seasoned first team player. As first seasons in the prem go, it's been pretty bloody good. Let's see how many bad games Phil Foden has next year when he's starting regularly. A full season to learn on the job is the best way for Mount to improve and I'm glad he's got it. And he's not taking the place of anyone who would be pulling up trees anyway. All of our midfielders are hot and cold this season.

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5 minutes ago, big blue said:

I get the criticism, however it can be ober the top, especially on twitter. 

If you ever saw him for the youth teams, or Vitesse, he is definitely more capable in the final 3rd than what he has shown this season, but i think it important to remember his age and his experience.

He is working hard and keeping things simple, and im hoping as he matures, we will start to see more of his true ability, because he is a good finisher with either foot, and he can pick out those killer passes aswell. 

I think he will go on to be a very good player for us. Abraham is the one im worried about, he needs to improve technically which is difficult at 22. 

Its been a nice season to see what this academy has got, not all of them will be good enough in the long run, but its great to see them contributing as heavily as they have. Ive always said that the academy should be used to bolster the squad, and stop us spending money on squad players, so we can invest it in a better core. At the very least we have proven these players are good enough to be a part of the squad, which makes the academy a massive success. 

We have been saying for years to play youth players and integrate them... but the scary thing is the gap between youth football and professional. Before i was really concerned how so many talented youth players like Baker, Mceachran never made it as a professional and I felt the management was to vblame for not giving them chances etc... But the truth of the matter is, the step up is huge and a lot of them simply aren't good enough.

Out of all the youth players who have had a chance this season and last, how many have pretty much guaranteed a spot in the starting XI? How many are good enough to be playing very regular football for a top side? maybe 1 or 2 at most.

I have no issue integrating youth into the team, but its most definitely a long process and can't just throw them in. I have to admit I was one of the many who thought RJ, CHO, Gilmour should be automatic starters based on a few performances, but the truth is they are nowhere near ready and I was wrong.

 

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4 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Half of his appearances this season has been in that role though. If we assume he is a MC in a 4-3-3 then he has to be in competition & judged alongside Barkley, RLC & Kovacic presently & not a case of Mount + Jorginho/Kante + 1. What do I know though; those who have been watching him & using the eye test say he has been one of our best players since the break.

 

I think he's been class. I just don't think he is a number 10. We don't have a number 10 in our team. We have 2 midfielders who create and press in the final 3rd and another one who is slightly more defensive. How we define these roles is not my expertise, but a number 10 I thought has always been the lynchpin in the middle of the park. Whereas we still play something closer to Sarri's system with a "regista" who plays that role but deeper whilst the other 2 CMs play either side and press in the final 3rd. 

I think Mount is perfectly set up to do the job Sarri was trying to get Kante to do last year. 

Edited by bisright1
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1 hour ago, dkw said:

Watching him play, I know, called me old fashioned but I would rather base his performances on what I have seen from him and what he has given to the team in games rather than some numbers. The modern fans love of stats is sh*t.

Wait, you don't watch the game via a live updating spreadsheet? Is THAT what they mean by "the games are on TV"? People watch them?

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