33 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Of course he would. We have made two major managerial f**k-ups in the Abramovich era:

One was sacking Carlo for AVB (arguably the worst call imo)

Second was sacking Conte for Sarri.

My sincere hope is that both return to manage the club in the future. But as I said above, neither are available. So it's a moot point.

Sacking Mourinho, only for Avram Grant to take over for the rest of the season and Scolari coming in after him was just as bad, possibly worse when you think about how much we won before. Mourinho was still at the top of his game back then, and he proved it with Inter Milan and getting Real Madrid competing in Europe again.

My fear is that it's only a matter of time until Sterling, Aubameyang, Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, etc (players that should genuinely improve us) are starting to look like everyone else in the team because of the structure around them. 

Fofana already has, shocking defending on their goal!

59 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

He seems genuinely shocked at the players and angry they didnt take opposition seriously. He looks baffled by their effort. It seems the players are not interested in playing at all. I really hopes he finds a solution even if its going back to basics like giving up the ball and playing on the counter. 

The players are embarrassing, I dont know if its the culture at the club or what but I am sure our last 5 managers all said the players are hard to motivate at Chelsea and its not the same players so the only other factor is the Club itself and its Culture.   

1 hour ago, HazardousChoice said:

Would have been strange if tonight's performance converted you into Tuchel in.

I'm still fully behind Tuchel. replacing him doesn't seem as ridiculous as it did previously given we've looked poor every game this season since the spurs game. The players not performing for his is a legitimate concern.

But I just think our squad is absolutely horrendous and no manager could compete with it.  

He could be doing better but I'm not going to change a manager who's only getting 2/10 performances out of 1/10 players.   

These Bums would fail the next manager just like they did Tuchel and many did Frank.

Disagree. These are not 1/10 players, not “bums”, these are for the most part talented, experienced players, who are collectively massively underperforming. This often happens when the manager loses the dressing room, which I would hazard (no pun) a guess is what’s going on here.

Tuchel appears to be scrambling for someone to blame, “we’re not doing this”, “we’re not doing that”, rather than accept that it’s his own management style, the limitation of his coaching ability, that week after week, produces turgid, ineffectual performances, that he seems wholly unable, or even willing to address.

I’d love to be wrong, but I can’t see the situation improving at all while Tuchel’s running the show.

Edited September 6, 20223 yr by Upsetter

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Sacking Mourinho, only for Avram Grant to take over for the rest of the season and Scolari coming in after him was just as bad, possibly worse when you think about how much we won before. Mourinho was still at the top of his game back then, and he proved it with Inter Milan and getting Real Madrid competing in Europe again.

Almost every single one was poor. 

Mourinho to Scolari. 

Ancelotti to AVB

AVB to DiMatteo/Benitez

Conte to Sarri

Sarri to Lampard

Lampard to Tuchel

These are managers each with a different philosophy and tactical approach when it comes to managing a football club. Is it any surprise we are always sacking one after another?

 

 

I still back him and want to seem him fix this. I want to see different some progress on our play even if its back to basic defending and playing counter attacking. Get the basics right first.

1 minute ago, Upsetter said:

Disagree. These are not 1/10 players, not “bums”, these are for the most part talented, experienced players, who are collectively massively underperforming. This often happens when the manager loses the dressing room, which I would hazard (no pun) a guess is what’s going on here.

Tuchel appears to be scrambling for someone to blame, “we’re not doing this”, “we’re not doing that”, rather than accept that it’s his own management style, the limitation of his coaching ability, that week after week, produces turgid, ineffectual performances, that he seems wholly unable to address.

 

Whos your replacement for him?

2 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

Go to bed.

It's why I firmly believe conservative football isn't sustainable in today's game. Players will soon become disinterested and form goes out the window. 

 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

My fear is that it's only a matter of time until Sterling, Aubameyang, Cucurella, Koulibaly, Fofana, etc (players that should genuinely improve us) are starting to look like everyone else in the team because of the structure around them. 

They need a strong backbone to support them.  We don't have that. Thing back to previous years when the spine of our team was likes of Cech, Terry, Malalele, Lampard and Drogba. 

That is phenomenal. Players either side of that had so much more freedom and confidence to express themselves AND be a little scared to f**k up.

Now we have a spine that, at its best, when all are fit has Silva and Kante who deliver more often than not but they are joined by an inconsistent keeper, a lightweight Jorginho, nobody to be a Lampard and f**k all presence up front.

This team hasn't been built intelligently. It is just throwing players on a pitch. Reminds me of how poorly Wenger rebuilt Arsenal when he lost the spine they had in their strongest era.

2 minutes ago, loz said:

They need a strong backbone to support them.  We don't have that. Thing back to previous years when the spine of our team was likes of Cech, Terry, Malalele, Lampard and Drogba. 

That is phenomenal. Players either side of that had so much more freedom and confidence to express themselves AND be a little scared to f**k up.

Now we have a spine that, at its best, when all are fit has Silva and Kante who deliver more often than not but they are joined by an inconsistent keeper, a lightweight Jorginho, nobody to be a Lampard and f**k all presence up front.

This team hasn't been built intelligently. It is just throwing players on a pitch. Reminds me of how poorly Wenger rebuilt Arsenal when he lost the spine they had in their strongest era.

It isn't as if we have a mix mash of players though. The majority of them are tailored for a progressive approach.  You can't tell me that the football we see on the pitch is justifiable with the amount of quality we have. 

 

4 minutes ago, El regreso said:

Whos your replacement for him?

I honestly don’t know. If we can’t poach someone like Potter, then - and I have to admit I don’t follow the European leagues at all - there’s surely got to be someone out there, someone who is at least willing to take a risk, someone capable of stopping the rot, turning things around.

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It isn't as if we have a mix mash of players though. The majority of them are tailored for a progressive approach.  You can't tell me that the football we see on the pitch is justifiable with the amount of quality we have. 

 

It's partly an obsession with technical quality that is hurting us. Ziyech, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, to some extent Pulisic,  all have technical quality but winners they are not, battlers they are not, bodies on the line they are not. The balance of players in our squad is wrong.

There isn’t a manager out there I’d want to replace Tuchel, I really rate him highly. This slump is concerning and our play style, we need a Neymar, Messi, prime Hazard etc to make it work. The best thing Tuchel can do is scrap it and start again.

I’d like to see one touch football - I watched the PSG game and some of their football is scintillating, using one touch rule and it ripped Juventus to shreds.

Obviously our attack is nowhere near PSG lol but surely our players are talented enough to play some one touch football. It’s always effective and direct, it always creates space. I really hate watching us at the moment, so boring.

23 minutes ago, Upsetter said:

Disagree. These are not 1/10 players, not “bums”, these are for the most part talented, experienced players, who are collectively massively underperforming. This often happens when the manager loses the dressing room, which I would hazard (no pun) a guess is what’s going on here.

Tuchel appears to be scrambling for someone to blame, “we’re not doing this”, “we’re not doing that”, rather than accept that it’s his own management style, the limitation of his coaching ability, that week after week, produces turgid, ineffectual performances, that he seems wholly unable, or even willing to address.

I’d love to be wrong, but I can’t see the situation improving at all while Tuchel’s running the show.

If you look at our forward players who got minutes today in forward roles Sterling is fantastic, Auba is elderly but in his first game so gets a pass and the rest (Pulisic, Ziyech and Havertz) have been absolutely dog sh*t from the very first day they came to English football (Or in Pulisics case day 1 of his career) and they were here long before Tuchel.

These are the same forward players that were terrible under Lampard when we were playing kamikaze style attacking football, all 3 looked significant downgrades on Tammy, Giroud, Willian and Pedro from day 1 let alone Hazard or the kind of top talent we need to challenge.

It's absolutely horrifying when we need to turn a game around Tuchel has to pray proven losers like Pulisic scores 1 of his 4 goals a season.  Every other top club in the league has more attacking talent and squad depth than us, we've spent our money very very poorly.

I don't think the players have downed tools, we've won with 10 men for near 90 minutes and come back from a goal down late so the effort is there we just lack ideas in the final 3rd.

That said I could be wrong it's impossible to tell if Pulisic and Ziyech have downed tools or not given how ineffective they've always been.

The concern is mistakes have now started to creep in at the back but honestly I think a large part of it is the defence feels too much pressure week in week out because they know they can't make 1 mistake or we have no chance of winning the game.

City and Liverpool usually play with so much freedom because their players know if they make a mistake and it leads to a goal their forwards can score 3/4/5 goals and everything is fine.  We go 1-0 to anyone in the first minute and you can tell the players are wondering where the goals are coming from and I can't see that changing with this group of players even under a new manager.

I'd be absolutely gutted if it doesn't work out with Tuchel because I really like him, but this sort of sh*t can't go on. The next few games are huge because he needs to change, if he refuses to adjust his tactics and we keep playing like this then I don't see how he can continue.

 

The players absolutely need to look at themselves too but Tuchel is the one playing them, I mean what the hell was he thinking playing Mount alongside Kovacic in a pivot? And then bringing on Ali Dia incarnate and whacking him at wing back? At 1-0 down he still felt the need to play 3 centre backs? It's stubborn crap like this that cost Jose and Conte their job, luckily for Tuchel we don't have Roman around anymore otherwise tomorrow we could be waking up to the news that he's been booted.

22 minutes ago, loz said:

It's partly an obsession with technical quality that is hurting us. Ziyech, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, to some extent Pulisic,  all have technical quality but winners they are not, battlers they are not, bodies on the line they are not. The balance of players in our squad is wrong.

I'd argue none of the 5 are anything special technically.

When I think Elite technical quality in the league now I'm thinking Bernardo Silva, Mahrez, Firminho even Saint Maxim

When is the last time any of our 5 actually dribbled past their man?

Our problem is actually a massive lack of technical ability in the final 3rd which is why no one can actually play in tight spaces or through packed defences.

Edited September 6, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

 

Change to who?

Mauricio Pochettino (if things don't improve).  Some stats for us (score / games played)

• Liverpool 14 in 6
• Arsenal 14 in 6
• Man City 24 in 7
• Spurs 12 in 6
• Utd 8 in 6
• Chelsea 8 in 7

That is dismal

4 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Mauricio Pochettino (if things don't improve).  Some stats for us (score / games played)

• Liverpool 14 in 6
• Arsenal 14 in 6
• Man City 24 in 7
• Spurs 12 in 6
• Utd 8 in 6
• Chelsea 8 in 7

That is dismal

Is our new manager recruitment process just for after whoever PSG sack?

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

When in doubt, turn to the spiritual leader of the club.

On a more serious note, we are not sacking Tuchel for one key reason. There is no one else out there better. If there was an Ancelotti or Conte who we could go get sure thing, but there isn't. 

The only serious candidate in my view is Pochettino and he probably wouldn't join due to his connection to Spurs.  Anyone out there who thinks we'd sack Tuchel for Potter needs to go to bed.

Zidane 

I never said elite technical quality. That's not a phrase I'd ever associate with them. I just meant they are all players who are more about technical skills  (without necessarily bring effective) whilst massively being short of competitiveness. 

Admittedly I struggle to put Pulisic in that category as I don't think he has either attribute. But Havertz and Ziyech, on the few times they show up are gifted footballers but f**k me do they disappear. Jorginho, given time and space, can look like a classy player but you'd take a Dennis Wise over him 100 times out of 100 let alone the likes of Makalele and Kante.

1 hour ago, Mod said:

Fofana already has, shocking defending on their goal!

That was really bad wasn't it? Big Koulibaly messing up a headed challange and Fofana looking as slow as Alonso trying to catch their forward, who did not look that fast.

1 hour ago, Mod said:

Fofana already has, shocking defending on their goal!

I felt he was scared that he would make a foul and receive a red card 

otherwise he was probably our best player 

Edited September 6, 20223 yr by azpi28