4 hours ago, azpi28 said:

When Pochettino is mentioned as a replacement

Put aside the fact he was in charge of Spurs, he is actually one of my favourite managers.

He did an excellent job both at Southampton and Tottenham, got the players working hard always, squeezed every bit of performance out them generally outperforming their talent level. Only issue was when he went into Tottenham was that he did a big clean out and that might not work well given we just spent over 250 million pounds on new signings (might have been the right thing to do if we'd just stuck with what we had the previous year and backed Poch with the money instead).

The only manager I consider to be better than him in world football is Klopp who is a painfully great manager.

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by Guest

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

It has happened many, many times before. The players down tools and decided they cannot be bothered to put the effort in, look disinterested and don't  care. Then Roman sacks the manager, brings in a new one to get them going for a bit and then rinse and repeat.

Players don't care Roman has gone, they are just pulling the same trick and our new owners are putting them on easy street with big fat contracts so we can be a retirement home just like Arsenal used to be. Koulibaly and Dave put in great retirement like performances today.

This is why the owners need to somehow communicate to everyone Tuchel is here for good, make it work -type of speech.

 

6 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Does he though. He could make Europe this year with a side punching big time. 6th - 8th I reckon currently here.  If he came here and got us to 4th somehow it would still be deemed failing, even though we'd all know he'd have pulled rainbows out of his arse to achieve it.

Yes. No one who is managing Brighton turns down Chelsea. 

We are top tier, we pay big money, he's made it. He's never turning down Chelsea. 

Also if we sack tuchel, then 4th would be an achievement. We all thought that was an achievement when tuchel did it. 

1 hour ago, Qaz said:

Put aside the fact he was in charge of Spurs, he is actually one of my favourite managers.

He did an excellent job both at Southampton and Tottenham, got the players working hard always, squeezed every bit of performance out them generally outperforming their talent level. Only issue was when he went into Tottenham was that he did a big clean out and that might not work well given we just spent over 250 million pounds on new signings (might have been the right thing to do if we'd just stuck with what we had the previous year and backed Poch with the money instead).

The only manager I consider to be better than him in world football is Klopp who is a painfully great manager.

That's insane. Couldn't win a trophy at spurs, flopped at PSG. 

9 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Would have been strange if tonight's performance converted you into Tuchel in.

I'm still fully behind Tuchel. replacing him doesn't seem as ridiculous as it did previously given we've looked poor every game this season since the spurs game. The players not performing for his is a legitimate concern.

But I just think our squad is absolutely horrendous and no manager could compete with it.  

He could be doing better but I'm not going to change a manager who's only getting 2/10 performances out of 1/10 players.   

These Bums would fail the next manager just like they did Tuchel and many did Frank.

Completely disagree. We may have problems in midfield with certain players injury prone and lack of balance but overall on paper this squad is one of the best in the league. There's absolutely no excuse why we not just lost but were competely outplayed by the likes of Leeds, Southampton and Dynamo Zagreb.

I praised TT for doing well with the squad he inherited from other managers and he does deserve a chance to build his own team, but you can't just keep losing to midtable sides while playing like sh*t and expect people to keep the faith. You can either struggle with results but show improvement, at least signs of it, or you can get results without playing particularly well, citing that it's still early days in your squad building, but you can't keep failing in both departments and count on the fans' or board support. Something's gotta change , and fast.

I think most here would agree that we can live with a few bad results here and there but the performances have been nothing short of shocking. The players look like they've just met and have no idea what they're supposed to do. What do they do in training that they can't come up with any sort of attacking movement in 90 minutes that could lead to a goal scoring opportunity? Why are we suddenly so clueless in attacking set pieces and so vulnerable at defending them? What's with walking pace of our build-up? It seems all you have to when facing Chelsea is play low block and that's basically game over for Tuchel and Co.

The old excuses don't work anymore. TT's been here long enough. He knows the team. He's been given players he wanted, ok, maybe not all but nobody gets everything. He's been backed by more money than any other CFC manager in history. Todd may have more patience than Roman but he's very ambitious and a winner and at some point if things continue to deteriorate he's going to have a decision to make.

8 hours ago, El regreso said:

Some fans wanted him gone but they are starting to see how crucial he is and how the f**k did the previous regime let his contract expire. 

 

Sometimes players want to go, it was well reported by the likes of Matt Law and others close to the club that we offered him a contract in excess of £200k a week, how much does he need exactly to stay somewhere he apparently loved? Rudiger wanted to go just like Christensen did - it didn’t matter what they were offered. 

Today is the first time I've watched a post-match presser with a manager and genuinely feared for their wellbeing. Tuchel seemed tired an  broken, not the behaviour of someone known to be reactive and fearless in a press conference, able to beat the press at their silly game. He was not himself.

I don't know if the recent EPL ban has tempered his tongue. The behaviour of the press in repeatedly asking the same question in order to bait and provoke Tuchel into a headline response was awful, particularly when the person they are targeting is clearly distressed. The behaviour of the media is callous and unethical and what purpose it does serve? 

Sounds lame, and I don't really use social media anyway, but I made sure to unfollow these types and unsubscribe from The Athletic. I have no desire to be part of an engine that drives people to harm for the purposes of social media credit.

-Thomas Tuchel for me is one of the best in the business

-We have a new owner who is new to football. Boehly started 1-2 months behind his rivals working in the transfer period

-The transferperiod went relatively well considering everything. We missed out on some main targets but got very good players in. 

-We bought some of the best young talent in Europe.

-Tuchel has said we are in transition. He has said it a couple if times. As he has said it, it means he has spoken about it with Todd. If it is okay with Todd, Tuchel should have time to get to know his side and his new players. 

-We need to have perspective and look at this season and not one phase of the season. I felt this season is up and down and it surely is.

-I expect our leading players to step up. That is J, Mount, Silva, KK, Kante and Kovacic to just play ourselves from the slump. 

17 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Completely disagree. We may have problems in midfield with certain players injury prone and lack of balance but overall on paper this squad is one of the best in the league. There's absolutely no excuse why we not just lost but were competely outplayed by the likes of Leeds, Southampton and Dynamo Zagreb.

I praised TT for doing well with the squad he inherited from other managers and he does deserve a chance to build his own team, but you can't just keep losing to midtable sides while playing like sh*t and expect people to keep the faith. You can either struggle with results but show improvement, at least signs of it, or you can get results without playing particularly well, citing that it's still early days in your squad building, but you can't keep failing in both departments and count on the fans' or board support. Something's gotta change , and fast.

I think most here would agree that we can live with a few bad results here and there but the performances have been nothing short of shocking. The players look like they've just met and have no idea what they're supposed to do. What do they do in training that they can't come up with any sort of attacking movement in 90 minutes that could lead to a goal scoring opportunity? Why are we suddenly so clueless in attacking set pieces and so vulnerable at defending them? What's with walking pace of our build-up? It seems all you have to when facing Chelsea is play low block and that's basically game over for Tuchel and Co.

The old excuses don't work anymore. TT's been here long enough. He knows the team. He's been given players he wanted, ok, maybe not all but nobody gets everything. He's been backed by more money than any other CFC manager in history. Todd may have more patience than Roman but he's very ambitious and a winner and at some point if things continue to deteriorate he's going to have a decision to make.

Brilliant post, trying to claim we have a rubbish squad is embarrassing, it's not well balanced but its much much better than the displays were seeing rhe past 6 months, and easily good enough to have won the last 4 games. We've played a terrible risk free awful style of football that is creatively stunted. This is not because of the squad, this is entirely down to the manager.

Fulham will be licking their lips for the weekend, getting fired into our weaknesses will be easy for them.

TT needs to move away from 5 at the back, stick with either a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. We need more creativity, at the moment I feel a lot of our players are stifled.

If we ever needed a new manager then I'd give Zidane a call, if he's not available then Graham Potter. When I mentioned Potter before a few people reacted with the laughing emoji, but I think he's a great guy and would do well at a bigger club.

17 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Today is the first time I've watched a post-match presser with a manager and genuinely feared for their wellbeing. Tuchel seemed tired an  broken, not the behaviour of someone known to be reactive and fearless in a press conference, able to beat the press at their silly game. He was not himself.

I don't know if the recent EPL ban has tempered his tongue. The behaviour of the press in repeatedly asking the same question in order to bait and provoke Tuchel into a headline response was awful, particularly when the person they are targeting is clearly distressed. The behaviour of the media is callous and unethical and what purpose it does serve? 

Sounds lame, and I don't really use social media anyway, but I made sure to unfollow these types and unsubscribe from The Athletic. I have no desire to be part of an engine that drives people to harm for the purposes of social media credit.

I think he was very disappointed with the performance and didn't anticipate at all on this result.

Where previous losses of points there always could have been an excuse due to some controversy, there was none today.

We just under performed against one of the smallest team in the CL. So we looked stupid in front of the entire world.

I guess it's normal that he was this frustrated after right a game you are expected to win and gain a confidence boost. 

I even had the impression that he really was biting his lips and not throwing certain people in front of the bus, because there were so many player under performing.

It can also be that he is frustrated with the fact that we are missing that creative player and he was really hoping to get one during the transfer window. 

Thinking that this result never would have been there if we had such a player. 

 

Thankfully the next game is be there shortly. Let's turn it around!

O and sacking him after bringing in 8 players won’t fix the issue of the players don’t have chemistry with him now and new manager is not going to change that short term. Long term view here he will fix this just needs time and he is starting to realise maybe he should tighten the freedom of some of these players and micro manage them because they need it

8 hours ago, axman2526 said:

It has happened many, many times before. The players down tools and decided they cannot be bothered to put the effort in, look disinterested and don't  care. Then Roman sacks the manager, brings in a new one to get them going for a bit and then rinse and repeat.

Players don't care Roman has gone, they are just pulling the same trick and our new owners are putting them on easy street with big fat contracts so we can be a retirement home just like Arsenal used to be. Koulibaly and Dave put in great retirement like performances today.

What players thought? Bar Azpi & Kante, none of these players have been here long enough to have seen this play out. Even back then when there were accusations of players downing tools, it was because of the access they had to Roman. It was never proven, and to be fair a change in manager proved to be the right decision.

Transfer window closed a week ago and was the first chance Tuchel has had to bring his players in. I'd give him to the end of the season and see where we are then. 

I also don't buy the notion that we have a bad squad. 18 months ago we were European Champions, deservedly so, and many people thought we would win the title last season, which we looked on course to challenge for until the injuries and covid issues happened. I think there are a few individuals who are not very good, but on paper our squad realistically is third or at a push second best in the premier league.

We played our best attacking football last season when James and Chilwell were both fully fit, meaning we were essentially attacking with 5 players and created alot of chances. What I don't understand is why we are not playing in a similar way this season. Someone else said this the other day but it feels as though we are playing with the handbrake on at the moment. But during this period last season when James and Chilwell were fit, we were moving the ball quickly, creating chances and teams were struggling to cope with us.

I think this is what Tuchel wants us to get back to, I don't for one minute believe he wants us to play this slow, boring, pragmatic football. But I think the players are not playing with much confidence at the moment and therefore may be a bit frightened to take risks. There was one instance yesterday where Kova played a ball in behind for Chilly, who squared it for Auba for a tap in. Granted it was offside and disallowed but we should be seeing progressive runs and passing a lot more often. For me there's no coincidence that Chilwell was involved in that, and the way in which he scored against West Ham which came from a similar pass. 

I said it the other day but we are missing a Fabregas/ Eriksen/ De Bruyne type player in midfield. Someone who can create something out of nothing. 75% of the teams will play a 'low block' against us this season, which they are well within their rights to do. Without moving the ball quickly, or someone who can create something out of nothing I genuinely struggle to see how we will break these teams down. Kovacic for me could be this player for us but for the most part is quite happy making shorter passes.

I am not 100% sure if he has lost the dressing room or not. The performance against Spurs, the result against Leicester with 10 men, and coming back to beat West Ham with 2 late goals all show to me that the players can fight and still put in a shift. But then the Southampton, Leeds, and Zagreb performances also show that they're also capable of turning up and going through the motions.

I am certain of one thing, if Tuchel was to go and Poch/ Zidane/ Potter or whoever else come in, then the results in the short term will improve and we will look like a world class squad again. But how long until the players down tools for them, and we start the process again?

I still back Tuchel to turn this around. I also think with the new ownership we won't be as trigger happy as Roman was and therefore Tuchel will be given more time. He has also just been backed nearly £300m with his players, it would be daft to pull the trigger so soon after signing all those players.

Tuchel for me still has a lot of credit in the bank. We won the champions league under him, he guided us through the stormy sanction period, and stayed when he could've so easily left and joined another top side in Europe, and whilst all that was going on we were 2 missed penalties away from winning the domestic cups. Yes, I would like to see the football get better and the results improve but I am still certain he is the right man for the job and given time will turn this around.

For all the doom and gloom surrounding our start, we are still only 3 points behind 4th placed Brighton, who won't maintain this level of form all season. If we are able to put one or two results together then all of a sudden we will look in a much better position. 

The dreaded He’s lost the dressing room’, is imminent, the Chelsea legend Dave can’t rally his troops, no one on field, is gesticulating and giving the hurry up, we need a ‘Dog of war’, and frankly I don’t see that player in our midst, Boy we miss a JT, Ballack, Drogba type leader, sort it TT, the blade is self sharpening, and you don’t seem to be able to stop it dropping 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

trying to claim we have a rubbish squad is embarrassing

On paper I'd tend to agree. but then at the moment I can also think about it like this :

Pulisic and Ziyech want to leave (and are crap anyway) ; Chukwuemeka, Zakaria and Broja all unproven ; Chalobah not fancied (that's on TT) ; Azpilicueta in terminal decline ; Arrizabalaga, Bettinelli, Koulibaly, Cucurella, Loftus-Cheek, Gallagher and Havertz all pretty average ; Kante injured ; Kovacic, Chilwell and Aubameyang all not 100% match fit ; Mendy and Mount way off form ...

That's 20 out of the squad of 25, and I haven't even tried to classify Jorginho yet 🙂 

Unlocking the "pretty average" and the "unproven" categories look critical to me, as does getting everyone 100% fit and back on form. I don't understand the treatment of Chalobah, but in a flat back 4 (which I think we need to move to) he probably doesn't get in ahead of Fofana, Silva and Koulibaly anyway.

Tuchel probably needs to try 4-2-3-1 as I think that best suits the players we have got. Alternatively 4-2-2-2 or stick to his CL-winning 3-4-2-1 ... basically whatever formation avoids having to give any more minutes to Ziyech or Pulisic LOL.

26 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I also don't buy the notion that we have a bad squad. 18 months ago we were European Champions, deservedly so, and many people thought we would win the title last season, which we looked on course to challenge for until the injuries and covid issues happened. I think there are a few individuals who are not very good, but on paper our squad realistically is third or at a push second best in the premier league.

We played our best attacking football last season when James and Chilwell were both fully fit, meaning we were essentially attacking with 5 players and created alot of chances. What I don't understand is why we are not playing in a similar way this season. Someone else said this the other day but it feels as though we are playing with the handbrake on at the moment. But during this period last season when James and Chilwell were fit, we were moving the ball quickly, creating chances and teams were struggling to cope with us.

I think this is what Tuchel wants us to get back to, I don't for one minute believe he wants us to play this slow, boring, pragmatic football. But I think the players are not playing with much confidence at the moment and therefore may be a bit frightened to take risks. There was one instance yesterday where Kova played a ball in behind for Chilly, who squared it for Auba for a tap in. Granted it was offside and disallowed but we should be seeing progressive runs and passing a lot more often. For me there's no coincidence that Chilwell was involved in that, and the way in which he scored against West Ham which came from a similar pass. 

I said it the other day but we are missing a Fabregas/ Eriksen/ De Bruyne type player in midfield. Someone who can create something out of nothing. 75% of the teams will play a 'low block' against us this season, which they are well within their rights to do. Without moving the ball quickly, or someone who can create something out of nothing I genuinely struggle to see how we will break these teams down. Kovacic for me could be this player for us but for the most part is quite happy making shorter passes.

I am not 100% sure if he has lost the dressing room or not. The performance against Spurs, the result against Leicester with 10 men, and coming back to beat West Ham with 2 late goals all show to me that the players can fight and still put in a shift. But then the Southampton, Leeds, and Zagreb performances also show that they're also capable of turning up and going through the motions.

I am certain of one thing, if Tuchel was to go and Poch/ Zidane/ Potter or whoever else come in, then the results in the short term will improve and we will look like a world class squad again. But how long until the players down tools for them, and we start the process again?

I still back Tuchel to turn this around. I also think with the new ownership we won't be as trigger happy as Roman was and therefore Tuchel will be given more time. He has also just been backed nearly £300m with his players, it would be daft to pull the trigger so soon after signing all those players.

Tuchel for me still has a lot of credit in the bank. We won the champions league under him, he guided us through the stormy sanction period, and stayed when he could've so easily left and joined another top side in Europe, and whilst all that was going on we were 2 missed penalties away from winning the domestic cups. Yes, I would like to see the football get better and the results improve but I am still certain he is the right man for the job and given time will turn this around.

For all the doom and gloom surrounding our start, we are still only 3 points behind 4th placed Brighton, who won't maintain this level of form all season. If we are able to put one or two results together then all of a sudden we will look in a much better position. 

Excellent post !

1 hour ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I also don't buy the notion that we have a bad squad. 18 months ago we were European Champions, deservedly so, and many people thought we would win the title last season, which we looked on course to challenge for until the injuries and covid issues happened. I think there are a few individuals who are not very good, but on paper our squad realistically is third or at a push second best in the premier league.

We played our best attacking football last season when James and Chilwell were both fully fit, meaning we were essentially attacking with 5 players and created alot of chances. What I don't understand is why we are not playing in a similar way this season. Someone else said this the other day but it feels as though we are playing with the handbrake on at the moment. But during this period last season when James and Chilwell were fit, we were moving the ball quickly, creating chances and teams were struggling to cope with us.

I think this is what Tuchel wants us to get back to, I don't for one minute believe he wants us to play this slow, boring, pragmatic football. But I think the players are not playing with much confidence at the moment and therefore may be a bit frightened to take risks. There was one instance yesterday where Kova played a ball in behind for Chilly, who squared it for Auba for a tap in. Granted it was offside and disallowed but we should be seeing progressive runs and passing a lot more often. For me there's no coincidence that Chilwell was involved in that, and the way in which he scored against West Ham which came from a similar pass. 

I said it the other day but we are missing a Fabregas/ Eriksen/ De Bruyne type player in midfield. Someone who can create something out of nothing. 75% of the teams will play a 'low block' against us this season, which they are well within their rights to do. Without moving the ball quickly, or someone who can create something out of nothing I genuinely struggle to see how we will break these teams down. Kovacic for me could be this player for us but for the most part is quite happy making shorter passes.

I am not 100% sure if he has lost the dressing room or not. The performance against Spurs, the result against Leicester with 10 men, and coming back to beat West Ham with 2 late goals all show to me that the players can fight and still put in a shift. But then the Southampton, Leeds, and Zagreb performances also show that they're also capable of turning up and going through the motions.

I am certain of one thing, if Tuchel was to go and Poch/ Zidane/ Potter or whoever else come in, then the results in the short term will improve and we will look like a world class squad again. But how long until the players down tools for them, and we start the process again?

I still back Tuchel to turn this around. I also think with the new ownership we won't be as trigger happy as Roman was and therefore Tuchel will be given more time. He has also just been backed nearly £300m with his players, it would be daft to pull the trigger so soon after signing all those players.

Tuchel for me still has a lot of credit in the bank. We won the champions league under him, he guided us through the stormy sanction period, and stayed when he could've so easily left and joined another top side in Europe, and whilst all that was going on we were 2 missed penalties away from winning the domestic cups. Yes, I would like to see the football get better and the results improve but I am still certain he is the right man for the job and given time will turn this around.

For all the doom and gloom surrounding our start, we are still only 3 points behind 4th placed Brighton, who won't maintain this level of form all season. If we are able to put one or two results together then all of a sudden we will look in a much better position. 

Absolutely bang on. 

At this point, I'm not sure that it matters whether we back Tuchel or not, it's more about whether the players back him or not and it doesn't look like it.

In every game we start well, playing good football but just can’t get the goal. Then we fold after the opponent wises up or gets a goal. It seems to me mentality of the players mixed with the formation. I would like Tuchel to move to a back 4 and stick with it. Enough of the changing around. 

he's just been sacked. 

Didn't see that coming that fast to be honest... 

Aaaaanndd he's gone 

Blimey !!!