Benzema carrying Real Madrid these past two seasons

Lewandowski breaking Bundesliga goal scoring records, would've won Ballon Dor if not for COVID

Drogba having his highest goal scoring season.

They all have something in common: World Class strikers and in their early thirties.

I really think some people are overreacting with signing a 28 year old Lukaku, especially considering none of this is our money anyway.

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Slightly bemused by the generally negative reception of the prospect of signing a player that's scored 64 goals in his last two seasons. 

We all agree we need to score more goals and specifically need a striker that's good at doing it. 

Isn't that exactly what Lukaku is? I feel like I'm missing something. 

Mario Gomez scored near enough a goal a game for Bayern in 11/12 and dropping him transformed them from trophy less to treble winners.

Despite being a great scorer for United they only won 1 title in 5 years with RVN leading the line but three in a row either side of him. Sticking to United they themselves instantly looked a better team after dropping the very player we're now trying to sign.

Even with Haaland despite all his unbelievable personal records at Dortmund as a team unit they have got worse since signing him.

Atletico Madrid improved and won the title after selling Falcao.

Icardi is struggling to hold down a spot in PSG's side despite a healthy goal record for them.

Fox in the box type strikers have a habit of making their team worse overall even if they offer a good goal record, we are increasingly heading into an era where false 9 is becoming the go to system for success (us, Liverpool and City have demonstrated that in the last two years alone), we lose the best elements of Tuchel's system by signing Lukaku (pressing and interchangeability in the build up play).

And that's before I mention Lukaku actually scored less goals last season than Werner the year before he joined us.

If we are really going down the rabbit hole of signing a player because they think they guarantee goals, then fine, but source a player that doesn't mean we have to rip apart a highly promising system, like a wide forward in the Mane/Salah/Sterling mould.

21 minutes ago, Argo said:

Mario Gomez scored near enough a goal a game for Bayern in 11/12 and dropping him transformed them from trophy less to treble winners.

Despite being a great scorer for United they only won 1 title in 5 years with RVN leading the line but three in a row either side of him. Sticking to United they themselves instantly looked a better team after dropping the very player we're now trying to sign.

Even with Haaland despite all his unbelievable personal records at Dortmund as a team unit they have got worse since signing him.

Atletico Madrid improved and won the title after selling Falcao.

Icardi is struggling to hold down a spot in PSG's side despite a healthy goal record for them.

Fox in the box type strikers have a habit of making their team worse overall even if they offer a good goal record, we are increasingly heading into an era where false 9 is becoming the go to system for success (us, Liverpool and City have demonstrated that in the last two years alone), we lose the best elements of Tuchel's system by signing Lukaku (pressing and interchangeability in the build up play).

And that's before I mention Lukaku actually scored less goals last season than Werner the year before he joined us.

If we are really going down the rabbit hole of signing a player because they think they guarantee goals, then fine, but source a player that doesn't mean we have to rip apart a highly promising system, like a wide forward in the Mane/Salah/Sterling mould.

I am also not convinced that we need a classic target striker like Lukaku based on the way Tuchel had us playing last season. That being said our attacking options (in particular Werner) did not provide enough goals last season and that is why we are in the market for another goal scorer at the moment. I think Havertz will score more goals this season, hopefully Werner too. However I don't expect Werner to be anywhere near as prolific as he was in his breakout season with Leipzig. So I think we still need another regular goalscorer. If Tuchel wants a player like Lukaku I have to assume he has a plan for him in our system and will hopefully make that work too.

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

I am also not convinced that we need a classic target striker like Lukaku based on the way Tuchel had us playing last season. That being said our attacking options (in particular Werner) did not provide enough goals last season and that is why we are in the market for another goal scorer at the moment. I think Havertz will score more goals this season, hopefully Werner too. However I don't expect Werner to be anywhere near as prolific as he was in his breakout season with Leipzig. So I think we still need another regular goalscorer. If Tuchel wants a player like Lukaku I have to assume he has a plan for him in our system and will hopefully make that work too.

While I'm not under any illusions Werner will suddenly turn into a cool as ice finisher the sheer volume of chances he gets would make such a low tally two season's in a row statically next to impossible.

Havertz as a false 9 I'm convinced gets 20 goals at an absolute minimum.

The main reason we create so many chances to waste is because our whole team is involved heavily in the build up. When we were playing awful at the back end of Mou's title but were getting results because Hazard was Hazard many thought our luck would run out eventually and it did, why can't that work in reverse?

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

While I'm not under any illusions Werner will suddenly turn into a cool as ice finisher the sheer volume of chances he gets would make such a low tally two season's in a row statically next to impossible.

Havertz as a false 9 I'm convinced gets 20 goals at an absolute minimum.

The main reason we create so many chances to waste is because our whole team is involved heavily in the build up. When we were playing awful at the back end of Mou's title but were getting results because Hazard was Hazard many thought our luck would run out eventually and it did, why can't that work in reverse?

you got it right Argo, we create a lot of chances but we DONT FINISH THEM. so you want us to stay with the same players but hope for a different result. Why not bring someone who can help with that problem?

Edited August 3, 20214 yr by DidierDrogbalala

On 02/06/2021 at 14:57, DidierDrogbalala said:

 

This is a good resume about Lukaku and how he improved at Inter...

12 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

you got it right Argo, we create a lot of chances but we DONT FINISH THEM. so you want us to stay with the same players but hope for a different result. Why not bring someone who can help with that problem?

I'll put this another way.

In the run up to our title in 2015 we were playing absolutely rubbish but kept getting results because Hazard kept producing with the scraps he was getting and Courtois was playing lile superman in goal. It was widely agreed it couldn't carry on and we were eventually going to get found out, and that's exactly what happened.

Why can't that work in reverse? I find it quite bewildering that so many are adamant that there won't be natural second season improvement with our players. 

As I said above if we want to sign players who we think will guarantee goals fine, source a wide forward in the Mane/Salah/Jota/Son/Sterling mould (and while we mention them, the latter two scored 4 and 6 respectively in their first season's at their current club) which will mean we don't dismantle our hugely promising system and (hopefully) get the goals in the unlikely event none of last summer's attacking signings naturally improve.

For us to have bid, we must be close to the asking price and have been encouraged. The club wouldn’t bid unless their proposed offer is near-ish what they want. 
 

Matt Law who is close to Chelsea has consistently said Lukaku is more likely than Haaland. It’s a shame we’re likely to miss out on Haaland.
 

It shows how important it is get signings right. If you look at Rooney, Augero, Suarez, Torres..the clubs went in big for these big talents were rewarded with the best years of their career - something that we’ve consistently failed to do in the striker department. We never seem to want to stump up the money for strikers. 

Edited August 3, 20214 yr by JM7

I think that because of the way we play, somebody like Lukaku will hurt us more than help us. I have no doubt he will score more goals than anybody else in the squad, but I also think his presence alone would bring the team down because he lacks in so many other areas. 

Also, adding Lukaku means one of Mount, Pulisic or Havertz misses out on a spot in the first team, and I am 100% against that. No way would I sacrifice any of these 3 for Lukaku. We all know it would be Pulisic that misses out too, which means we lose that natural wide player and a player that can run and dribble past defences. We would become more predictable and easier to defend against overall.

Some are overthinking the whole "Lukaku will dismantle the system" thinking.

He's a very capable football player these days and while there may be slight changes to the way we play it will not be huge. For Inter he drops deep and is very involved in everything they do because he's by far their best attacker and player in general. For us it will be Havertz and Mount that takes a lot of that workload while Lukaku will be our spearhead to smash the ball into the net. Which we desperately lacked last season.

19 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think that because of the way we play, somebody like Lukaku will hurt us more than help us. I have no doubt he will score more goals than anybody else in the squad, but I also think his presence alone would bring the team down because he lacks in so many other areas. 

Also, adding Lukaku means one of Mount, Pulisic or Havertz misses out on a spot in the first team, and I am 100% against that. No way would I sacrifice any of these 3 for Lukaku. We all know it would be Pulisic that misses out too, which means we lose that natural wide player and a player that can run and dribble past defences. We would become more predictable and easier to defend against overall.

Let's be honest, any top striker like Lukaku can't possbly make us a worse team, Giroud didn't make us a worse team.

We are in need of a CB that would help us to play a back 4 formation and like that we gain a player in the midfield or attack. In the current system Pulisic was already fine with coming on from the bench or playing on the right side.

Tuchel should get a new attacker, it's impossible for us to win the league with no depth, we only did it with Conte because we had no CL football and then he could play the same lineup most of the time.

Di Marzio has just mentioned that Romelu is 'flattered' to join Chelsea and his agent is pushing for the move. Chelsea are expected to make a 120 million euro bid in the coming hours and it is expected to be accepted. It's looking like this deal is close to done. I would have preferred we bought a different striker but if he is coming then I'll back him and hope he does well for us this year.

25 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Some are overthinking the whole "Lukaku will dismantle the system" thinking.

He's a very capable football player these days and while there may be slight changes to the way we play it will not be huge. For Inter he drops deep and is very involved in everything they do because he's by far their best attacker and player in general. For us it will be Havertz and Mount that takes a lot of that workload while Lukaku will be our spearhead to smash the ball into the net. Which we desperately lacked last season.

Posters seem to know Tuchel's system better than Tuchel. Tuchel wants Haaland or Lukaku, he isnt having a striker pushed onto him, im sure the club would prefer it, if he was happy to stick with what he has. 

Tuchel must have something in mind. 

 

2 minutes ago, big blue said:

Posters seem to know Tuchel's system better than Tuchel. Tuchel wants Haaland or Lukaku, he isnt having a striker pushed onto him, im sure the club would prefer it, if he was happy to stick with what he has. 

Tuchel must have something in mind. 

 

Tuchel's a great manager but doesn't mean he can't ever be questioned, especially with an aspect of management he's got a sketchy record in (the market).

We went down the "manager knows best back him unconditionally" route with Mourinho and lost arguably the leagues two best players of the last few years.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Mario Gomez scored near enough a goal a game for Bayern in 11/12 and dropping him transformed them from trophy less to treble winners.

Despite being a great scorer for United they only won 1 title in 5 years with RVN leading the line but three in a row either side of him. Sticking to United they themselves instantly looked a better team after dropping the very player we're now trying to sign.

Even with Haaland despite all his unbelievable personal records at Dortmund as a team unit they have got worse since signing him.

Atletico Madrid improved and won the title after selling Falcao.

Icardi is struggling to hold down a spot in PSG's side despite a healthy goal record for them.

Fox in the box type strikers have a habit of making their team worse overall even if they offer a good goal record, we are increasingly heading into an era where false 9 is becoming the go to system for success (us, Liverpool and City have demonstrated that in the last two years alone), we lose the best elements of Tuchel's system by signing Lukaku (pressing and interchangeability in the build up play).

And that's before I mention Lukaku actually scored less goals last season than Werner the year before he joined us.

If we are really going down the rabbit hole of signing a player because they think they guarantee goals, then fine, but source a player that doesn't mean we have to rip apart a highly promising system, like a wide forward in the Mane/Salah/Sterling mould.

You are cherry picking to suit your argument there though. 

You could just as easily say Chelsea won 2 titles in 3 years when signed Costa. 

Madrid won 4 Champions leagues in 5 years with a number 9. 

Bayern have won 10 leagues on the spin and a champions league with 9.

Man city becore this season have won 4 league titles with Aguero.

Havertz at false 9 is something i am definitely on board with, but there is more than one way to win, strikers are currently firing other teams to silverware, why cant a striker work here, especially if thats what the manager wants?

 

2 minutes ago, big blue said:

You are cherry picking to suit your argument there though. 

You could just as easily say Chelsea won 2 titles in 3 years when signed Costa. 

Madrid won 4 Champions leagues in 5 years with a number 9. 

Bayern have won 10 leagues on the spin and a champions league with 9.

Man city becore this season have won 4 league titles with Aguero.

Havertz at false 9 is something i am definitely on board with, but there is more than one way to win, strikers are currently firing other teams to silverware, why cant a striker work here, especially if thats what the manager wants?

 

Those players you references bar Costa are/were great all round forwards, the ones i mentioned aren't.

I could maybe try and look at the potential upside if I felt he would be dropped if he underperforms/Kai outperforms him and he would use that as motivation to improve, but we just know he likely won't be dropped if he doesn't cut it and even if by some miracle he is instead of fighting to win his place back he'll complain in the media and down tools like he did when OGS dropped him.

Hmm seems like this is actually happening then

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Tuchel's a great manager but doesn't mean he can't ever be questioned, especially with an aspect of management he's got a sketchy record in (the market).

We went down the "manager knows best back him unconditionally" route with Mourinho and lost arguably the leagues two best players of the last few years.

Im not saying he cant be questioned, but he clearly wants a certain type if forward, and with our finishing its understandable. 

Surely he knows what is best for his system? 

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Those players you references bar Costa are/were great all round forwards, the ones i mentioned aren't.

I could maybe try and look at the potential upside if I felt he would be dropped if he underperforms/Kai outperforms him and he would use that as motivation to improve, but we just know he likely won't be dropped if he doesn't cut it and even if by some miracle he is instead of fighting to win his place back he'll complain in the media and down tools like he did when OGS dropped him.

Thats your opinion, theres plenty in the game that think Lukaku's all round game is pretty solid now, probably including Tuchel, and Conte, 2 excellent coaches. 

Im sure you agree, Tuchel is an excellent  coach, why do you not think he is capable of getting Lukaku playing to his highest level? 

The last paragraph is just conjecture. A lot of hypotheticals. 

I watched lukaku a lot last season, this idea that he’s not an all round forward wasn’t what I saw. He worked his guts out for the team. Maybe not back on the goal line for corners but playing with his back to goal, distributing the ball. He didn’t press that much. 
 

 

£110m.

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Slightly bemused by the generally negative reception of the prospect of signing a player that's scored 64 goals in his last two seasons. 

We all agree we need to score more goals and specifically need a striker that's good at doing it. 

Isn't that exactly what Lukaku is? I feel like I'm missing something. 

I remember I said this before. Lukaku is one of those strikers who can get 100 goals a season but he will never be fully appreciated. He scores goals wherever he goes. His fitness record is incredible and is rarely ever injured. He still has another 4 years at the top. You see the likes of Benzema, Suarez and Lewandowski scoring goals for fun at age of 33/34. Lukaku is more of an athlete than all those players and in great physical shape. He worked on his hold up play which was average before he joined Inter and safe to say he was brilliant at that last season. Also topped the assists charts in Italy too. I don't understand why he is not appreciated more. Scores, assists, terrifies the life out of defenders. It is a win-win for me. If it is not Haaland, Lukaku is a perfect alternative and also has the advantage of already playing several seasons in the league.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

While I'm not under any illusions Werner will suddenly turn into a cool as ice finisher the sheer volume of chances he gets would make such a low tally two season's in a row statically next to impossible.

xG predicts that Werner should have scored 12 goals; he scored just 6. That should improve, but not by a huge amount. We're going to need goals from elsewhere.

I agree with you that it needs to be Havertz though. I saw enough of him at Leverkusen and at the back end of last season to show that his future as a top-tier player lies in him being able to play as a striker. 

2 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Di Marzio has just mentioned that Romelu is 'flattered' to join Chelsea and his agent is pushing for the move. Chelsea are expected to make a 120 million euro bid in the coming hours and it is expected to be accepted. It's looking like this deal is close to done. I would have preferred we bought a different striker but if he is coming then I'll back him and hope he does well for us this year.

Of course his agent wants it. It means a big pay day for him.

52 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

£110m.

Madness. At that price what are we saying? He is half as good as Neymar!

I reckon if Lukaku is keen, the deal will happen. Inter is in trouble financially, and with Conte gone there's nothing keep him there. There are 3 choices we have, pay over the top for a proven striker like Lukaku or Haaland , pay a lot for a good striker like Inglis or DCL, or do nothing and hoping the likes of Werner and Havetz will step up. Given we just won the big one, the best option is to go all out and get the proven striker. With 60 games a season, Werner/Havetz/Pullisic will still play hell a lot of football, so there's room for 1 more.

I think Lukaku would cost Mount his spot in the team. He would become Havertz backup imo

 

Kante---Jorgi

 

Havertz----Lukaku----Werner