2 hours ago, mojo said:

 

Ah, another social media parasite journalist who says things fans want to hear for social media credit. There is absolutely no evidence of Lille being interested, or that Tuchel has particularly strong views of anyone in the academy of a club he has only been involved with for 6 months.

A young Trevoh and Mason.

If I was Trev, I would stay and fight for my place. These type of opportunities only come about very rarely and he should seize it while he can. Even a good loan is no guarantee of anything. 

12 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Lots of our fans want us to not buy Kounde now because of Chalobah and rather we buy a DM, but that logic makes so little sense to me.

You had me until this, why does it make little sense to you that people want us to prioritise a DM? When Kante is out we are in big trouble when it comes to defensive ability in the centre of the pitch. Not an issue against Palace but against Liverpool, City, United it will be. 
 

If I had to choose between a DM and a CB it would be the former every time as we lack cover there, if we can do both then great but I’m interested to know why the logic of wanting a player where we have little cover over one where we do, doesn’t make sense to you?

1 hour ago, EdinburghBlue said:

You had me until this, why does it make little sense to you that people want us to prioritise a DM? When Kante is out we are in big trouble when it comes to defensive ability in the centre of the pitch. Not an issue against Palace but against Liverpool, City, United it will be. 
 

If I had to choose between a DM and a CB it would be the former every time as we lack cover there, if we can do both then great but I’m interested to know why the logic of wanting a player where we have little cover over one where we do, doesn’t make sense to you?

It could be that Trevoh is cover for CDM. That was his main position in Ligue 1 last season.

But we are thin in midfield, no doubt about it.

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

It could be that Trevoh is cover for CDM. That was his main position in Ligue 1 last season.

But we are thin in midfield, no doubt about it.

We have the numbers but the quality is hit and miss.

Only Jorgi, Kante and Kova are the real good ones.

Gallagher, RLC, Barkley etc are huge steps below what the above 3 bring to our game.

I have no issue with us purchasing Kounde. My hope is that it doesn't block Trev but allows maybe Zouma to be sold instead. His performances the last few matches have given me a lot of hope. Still a long, long way but he's put in some outstanding shifts and deserves to continue to get a look from Tuchel

5 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

You had me until this, why does it make little sense to you that people want us to prioritise a DM? When Kante is out we are in big trouble when it comes to defensive ability in the centre of the pitch. Not an issue against Palace but against Liverpool, City, United it will be. 
 

If I had to choose between a DM and a CB it would be the former every time as we lack cover there, if we can do both then great but I’m interested to know why the logic of wanting a player where we have little cover over one where we do, doesn’t make sense to you?

Because the club wants Declan Rice, why not save our money and wait till next season when he's much more attainable. West Ham will sell him next summer, why buy another DM to be fourth choice this summer.

Then next season we have Kante,Kova,Joroginho and Rice, we are sorted. We have the same amount of central mids last season as we do this season, Loftus Cheek has just replaced Gilmour place. If we get any injuries Mount can do a job in there, so can Chalobah. Jorginho is 31 at the end of the season, Gilmour could go on loan again and eventually takes Jorginho place.

Centre backs is more of a priority when Azpi is 33 at the end of the season, Tuchel doesn't seem to rate Zouma, Silva is 37 and cant play every game.

But why let Billy go on loan if he could get lots of minutes this year already?
 

I don‘t see Chalobah as a midfield option this year. Those two positions are our most vital and demanding ones - I personally don’t really see him there within our current system at all (at least in the foreseeable future but that’s just my opinion). Imho he and the team profit the most if he could concentrate on only one position. That is if he even stays this season. Even Mount wasn‘t really that convincing as a CM until now so even that should be rather an emergency setup (or he mostly just needs more prep-time in training).

It would be a surprising plan to strengthen the squad depth even more but leave us more vulnerable at our most important position than last year when we had at least a very good albeit inexperienced option with Billy. Doesn‘t sound likely imo.
 

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

Because the club wants Declan Rice, why not save our money and wait till next season when he's much more attainable. West Ham will sell him next summer, why buy another DM to be fourth choice this summer.

Then next season we have Kante,Kova,Joroginho and Rice, we are sorted. We have the same amount of central mids last season as we do this season, Loftus Cheek has just replaced Gilmour place. If we get any injuries Mount can do a job in there, so can Chalobah. Jorginho is 31 at the end of the season, Gilmour could go on loan again and eventually takes Jorginho place.

Centre backs is more of a priority when Azpi is 33 at the end of the season, Tuchel doesn't seem to rate Zouma, Silva is 37 and cant play every game.

Rice would not be fourth choice for one, he’d come in ahead of Kovacic in my opinion. No guarantee it would be rice anyway, just any DM cover for Kante. I also don’t think Rice will be cheaper, particularly if West Ham get new owners who might not be willing to part with him for any price. 

 

We have Azpi, Silva, Christensen, Zouma, Chalobah, Rudi, Ampadu (as it stands), Emerson (TT has played him at LCB multiple times to play CB. We are absolutely stacked there. 
 

RLC is a completely different profile to the likes of Rice and the CM’s we’re linked with.

41 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Because the club wants Declan Rice, why not save our money and wait till next season when he's much more attainable. West Ham will sell him next summer, why buy another DM to be fourth choice this summer.

Then next season we have Kante,Kova,Joroginho and Rice, we are sorted. We have the same amount of central mids last season as we do this season, Loftus Cheek has just replaced Gilmour place. If we get any injuries Mount can do a job in there, so can Chalobah. Jorginho is 31 at the end of the season, Gilmour could go on loan again and eventually takes Jorginho place.

Centre backs is more of a priority when Azpi is 33 at the end of the season, Tuchel doesn't seem to rate Zouma, Silva is 37 and cant play every game.

West Ham will sell Rice at 100m this or next season, if anyone is willing to pay that much. There are other good options like Franck Kessie, Aurelian Tchouameni or a youth option like llaix Moriba though. I don't think we can afford to not strengthen our CM position this year, with Kante and Kovacic beeing injury prone.

We have seen Mount dosen't work well in that position, he struggled the few times we were forced to play him there last season.  Removing our best player that creates the most chances in his favourite position is a bad solution. I also don't rate Loftus Cheek in that position at all, he hasn't impressed in ages to be honest. I have no clue if Chalobah can do a job there, he has been solid at RCB so far, but DM/CM is more demanding.

I don't really see how CB is more of a priority atm with T.Chalobah, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Silva, Rudiger and Zouma. We got double cover on all 3 positions in 3-4-3 formation. In CM we got 3 players for 2 positions and two of them are injury prone.

12 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Rice would not be fourth choice for one, he’d come in ahead of Kovacic in my opinion. No guarantee it would be rice anyway, just any DM cover for Kante. I also don’t think Rice will be cheaper, particularly if West Ham get new owners who might not be willing to part with him for any price. 

 

We have Azpi, Silva, Christensen, Zouma, Chalobah, Rudi, Ampadu (as it stands), Emerson (TT has played him at LCB multiple times to play CB. We are absolutely stacked there. 
 

RLC is a completely different profile to the likes of Rice and the CM’s we’re linked with.

When did i say Rice would be fourth choice? He has 2 years left on his contract next summer and he's refusing to sign a new deal, West Ham are skint. The chances of West Ham letting him go into 1 year left in his contract are very slim. Utd just did the same thing with Sancho, they kept there money, waited a year and got him cheaper than the previous year as he only had 2 years left on his contract.

People always complain we dont use youth as squad players and buy 3rd,4th choice targets and they end up not being good enough. The chances of us getting a better player than Jorginho, Kova or Kante this summer are slim so why waste money for a player to sit on the bench?.

I understand RLC is a different profile but Tuchel kept him for a reason, he must think he can play there, otherwise why keep him? for a laugh? to be 8th choice attacker?. I know it was only pre season but Tuchel tried RLC there and he played well.

Zouma might be sold yet, Ampadu looks unlikely to stay, i dont count Emerson as a CB, And Kounde is better than all of them. I thought the whole point was to keep our money for top players like Lukaku and Koude and for squad players or backups use the youth.

21 minutes ago, comtrend said:

West Ham will sell Rice at 100m this or next season, if anyone is willing to pay that much. There are other good options like Franck Kessie, Aurelian Tchouameni or a youth option like llaix Moriba though. I don't think we can afford to not strengthen our CM position this year, with Kante and Kovacic beeing injury prone.

We have seen Mount dosen't work well in that position, he struggled the few times we were forced to play him there last season.  Removing our best player that creates the most chances in his favourite position is a bad solution. I also don't rate Loftus Cheek in that position at all, he hasn't impressed in ages to be honest. I have no clue if Chalobah can do a job there, he has been solid at RCB so far, but DM/CM is more demanding.

I don't really see how CB is more of a priority atm with T.Chalobah, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Silva, Rudiger and Zouma. We got double cover on all 3 positions in 3-4-3 formation. In CM we got 3 players for 2 positions and two of them are injury prone.

West Ham are not selling Rice for £100M, the less years on his contract the more chance of them selling, we all know that.

The 3 players you mentioned would most likely all be fourth choice? why would they want to join? Kessie would cost a fortune, I like Tchouameni but him staying at Monaco for another season is better for his development. Haven't seen enough of Moriba to comment, although i have seen us being linked to him.

Kovacic isn't injury prone, I also dont think Kante is injury prone considering the amount of games he actually plays. It was only Lampard first season where Kante struggled with injuries.

Im pretty sure Chalobah played more games as a Defensive midfielder for Loreint last season than he did as a centre back.

Again with Kounde we are not talking Ake level here we are talking more Ruben Dias level, this is a player Tuchel wants. I already explained why i think we need a CB and why we cant wait.

28 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

West Ham are not selling Rice for £100M, the less years on his contract the more chance of them selling, we all know that.

The 3 players you mentioned would most likely all be fourth choice? why would they want to join? Kessie would cost a fortune, I like Tchouameni but him staying at Monaco for another season is better for his development. Haven't seen enough of Moriba to comment, although i have seen us being linked to him.

Kovacic isn't injury prone, I also dont think Kante is injury prone considering the amount of games he actually plays. It was only Lampard first season where Kante struggled with injuries.

Im pretty sure Chalobah played more games as a Defensive midfielder for Loreint last season than he did as a centre back.

Again with Kounde we are not talking Ake level here we are talking more Ruben Dias level, this is a player Tuchel wants. I already explained why i think we need a CB and why we cant wait.

Kovacic missed about 10 games last season to injury and was injured for 100 days+ in 2019/2020 season. Kante has had about the same injury history, with less games missing last season. The problem is that it only takes one of them to be injured like they were in 2019/2020 season to cause massive problems for us.

Kessie has 1 year left on his contract, so not expensive. Kessie and Tchouameni would be abel to compete with Kovacic, maybe make better combinations with Kante or Jorginho.

12 minutes ago, comtrend said:

Kovacic missed about 10 games last season to injury and was injured for 100 days+ in 2019/2020 season. Kante has had about the same injury history, with less games missing last season. The problem is that it only takes one of them to be injured like they were in 2019/2020 season to cause massive problems for us.

Kessie has 1 year left on his contract, so not expensive. Kessie and Tchouameni would be abel to compete with Kovacic, maybe make better combinations with Kante or Jorginho.

I didn't know Kessie only had a year left, fair enough. I still think the club will wait a year to get their first choice target, only 23, PL proven and wants to play for Chelsea. Save the money instead of buying someone this season, Thats why i dont think we have tried to buy a DM this window.

Also Rice has a great chance of actually starting in our first eleven, the other 3 you mentioned i dont think they do.

Edited August 16, 20214 yr by jack_super_class

Would have been a perfect debut if not for the hair....

1 hour ago, Barry Bridges said:

Would have been a perfect debut if not for the hair....

Vastly superior to Jorgingo's and Thiago Silva's....

9 hours ago, Valerie said:

Vastly superior to Jorgingo's and Thiago Silva's....

lol .. agree. let the young man express himself.. we put up with sideshow .. surely better than that. or Ronaldo 2002.

Kova and Kante are both going to miss games. They are older, you have to allow for more wear and tear. Jorginho will also miss some games. At least he didn't have to go the olympics like Pedri did and Jorginho wasn't picked much by Frank at the start of last season. Each of Kova (age 27), Kante (age 30) and Jorginho (age 29) are making about 40-45 appearances a season for Chelsea + internationals.

The system we play requires highly specialised and bloody skilful pivots that can consistently receive the ball under lots of pressure and distribute it effectively and promptly. Also have to have great positional sense and be capable of creating space for others. 

Chalobah will need to make every post a winner if he wants to be starting 11 regularly. In my view he'll never do that playing two positions. If he can become a ball carrying defender that would be enough.  I do think we need another specialised pivot midfielder, someone that represents viable competition to the three we now have that can gradually be bedded into the team, older than Billy but younger than the other three (22-24)  Tchouameni at 21 and Rice both sort of fit the bill, but for me Rice doesn't feel like the right fit stylistically even though on paper he looks perfect.

Trevoh's been very good in pre-season and in these past games. Among our best performers in Super Cup and against Palace. 

I would still hold my horses so to say. Trevoh's been super safe and done everything he is asked and impeccably. That is minimum requirement for a defender.

Anyway to my point: we are linked to Kounde. If I am not mistaken Kounde is a ball playing defender who is strongly contributing to attack. Rudiger for us is that type of defender. He has a big part in our attacks in many ways. Thiago Silva is one of the best ball playing defenders in the world. Christensen is bit safer but will contribute if the pressure is not on. 

Tuchel's system demands the defenders to move the opponent from side to side to create space either to flanks or centrally. That demands defenders to raise their heads and look for those openings. If you don't have that threat you lose ground. Against sides who put high pressure ability play ball is the most important part of passing through pressure. 

Now Chalobah is probably good with the ball but now he is basically just playing it safe. If that is the level he is capable of at this moment we can do better. City lost to Tottenham basically because Ake couldn't play passes under pressure (and Mendy can't defend at all). He just hoofed the ball up the field which made Pep scratch his head. Ake is down the pecking order in normal situation. 

I fully understand Chelsea looking for a talent like Kounde. If he comes it is healthy for Chalobah to get a good loan. He absolutely needs to play. Preferably a 3 at back Prem side. 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Trevoh's been very good in pre-season and in these past games. Among our best performers in Super Cup and against Palace. 

I would still hold my horses so to say. Trevoh's been super safe and done everything he is asked and impeccably. That is minimum requirement for a defender.

Anyway to my point: we are linked to Kounde. If I am not mistaken Kounde is a ball playing defender who is strongly contributing to attack. Rudiger for us is that type of defender. He has a big part in our attacks in many ways. Thiago Silva is one of the best ball playing defenders in the world. Christensen is bit safer but will contribute if the pressure is not on. 

Tuchel's system demands the defenders to move the opponent from side to side to create space either to flanks or centrally. That demands defenders to raise their heads and look for those openings. If you don't have that threat you lose ground. Against sides who put high pressure ability play ball is the most important part of passing through pressure. 

Now Chalobah is probably good with the ball but now he is basically just playing it safe. If that is the level he is capable of at this moment we can do better. City lost to Tottenham basically because Ake couldn't play passes under pressure (and Mendy can't defend at all). He just hoofed the ball up the field which made Pep scratch his head. Ake is down the pecking order in normal situation. 

I fully understand Chelsea looking for a talent like Kounde. If he comes it is healthy for Chalobah to get a good loan. He absolutely needs to play. Preferably a 3 at back Prem side. 

Rudiger isn’t good on the ball though, 4 out of 5 times if you put him under pressure he will hoof it out of touch. In a back 3 your ball playing CB is in the middle, that is why it’s either Silva/Christensen.
 

Something that seems to be getting lost in this whole situation is Rudiger is been to clever and running down his contract. A contract has been on the table since the beginning of last season, but he keeps dragging it out. I know it’s his final big contract, and he probably wants the loyalty bonus if he leaves, and a big signing on bonus with his next employer. Personally I would have shopped him early in the window, and made it a priority to sign a LCB. If he walks for free we will need to spend £50m+ on a replacement. As things stand with Emerson & Zouma both on the move, he is the only LCB we have in the team. Why we aren’t signing a LCB is beyond me.

With Kounde, Spurs agreed a fee with Sevilla earlier in the window for €65m and he decided not to move there. We make an offer for him and they have shifted the posts to €80m, now they are saying because we have left it too late the fee might end up being €88m. I say agree a fee for €65m and loan him back to them till next season. If we sign Kounde now, he either played in the middle where we have Thiago/Christensen (probably Thiago’s last season, and Christensen hasn’t signed a new contract because he is worried about game time), or RCB where we have James/Azpi/Chalobah (Azpi is in the last year of his contract, Chalobah has 2years left on his). You sign Kounde now and you risk Christensen walking for free (potentially £50m+ replacement), and/or Chalobah refusing to sign a new contract (there will be loads of suitors for him next season, & sends a bad message to the youth team).

As for Trevor I disagree with the theory that he has been super safe. He has been comfortable in possession and made forays into the opposition half. In the small sample size he looks more comfortable that Rudiger on the ball. Personally would start him against Arsenal, and going forward it’s his position to lose.

5 hours ago, ducavis said:

Rudiger isn’t good on the ball though, 4 out of 5 times if you put him under pressure he will hoof it out of touch. In a back 3 your ball playing CB is in the middle, that is why it’s either Silva/Christensen.
 

Something that seems to be getting lost in this whole situation is Rudiger is been to clever and running down his contract. A contract has been on the table since the beginning of last season, but he keeps dragging it out. I know it’s his final big contract, and he probably wants the loyalty bonus if he leaves, and a big signing on bonus with his next employer. Personally I would have shopped him early in the window, and made it a priority to sign a LCB. If he walks for free we will need to spend £50m+ on a replacement. As things stand with Emerson & Zouma both on the move, he is the only LCB we have in the team. Why we aren’t signing a LCB is beyond me.

With Kounde, Spurs agreed a fee with Sevilla earlier in the window for €65m and he decided not to move there. We make an offer for him and they have shifted the posts to €80m, now they are saying because we have left it too late the fee might end up being €88m. I say agree a fee for €65m and loan him back to them till next season. If we sign Kounde now, he either played in the middle where we have Thiago/Christensen (probably Thiago’s last season, and Christensen hasn’t signed a new contract because he is worried about game time), or RCB where we have James/Azpi/Chalobah (Azpi is in the last year of his contract, Chalobah has 2years left on his). You sign Kounde now and you risk Christensen walking for free (potentially £50m+ replacement), and/or Chalobah refusing to sign a new contract (there will be loads of suitors for him next season, & sends a bad message to the youth team).

As for Trevor I disagree with the theory that he has been super safe. He has been comfortable in possession and made forays into the opposition half. In the small sample size he looks more comfortable that Rudiger on the ball. Personally would start him against Arsenal, and going forward it’s his position to lose.

Brilliant summary. Tuchel has alot of pressure this year, pleasing everyone will be a huge task. 

 

Has been said before but it was rumored TT asked for 3 new players. A striker, a defender and a defensive midfielder.

He got the striker, apparently none of his preferred options for midfield he can have so is going with what he has. 

However it sounds like Chalobah impressed him so much that he sees him as his new defensive signing.

Edited August 20, 20214 yr by axman2526