2 hours ago, RMCM said:

I think Dave has been fine, naturally a 2 man defence carrying two sacks of potatoes instead of a right centre half and right back won't look great.

He has made more errors than usual when you're not part of a drilled unit it is bound to rub off on you. 

On 9/27/2016 at 16:51, g3.7 said:

I don't know what the relationship between what you've quoted and this response is. 

I also don't understand the term "all out attacking football" and don't know what that would look like. Is it how Germany played at the euros? 

i thought you were referring to this

Quote

''Good to read in recent days that Jose has duped our fanbase into thinking there is only one approach to football and that he has ruined our chances for the next twenty years. It helps explain some things I didn't  understand before'' 

i just meant high pressing attacking teams. Germany played when in possession of the ball with their 2 cb's almost on the midway line and the full backs up high so they could outnumber the opponent (although in this particular example they played against Conte's 3-5-2 so they weren't outnumbered)

in this example Hummels has the ball but when the ball moves up field the central defenders move up to the midway line and the two full backs become wingers

Edited September 29, 20169 yr by dc19

On 9/27/2016 at 10:42, Hazard10 said:

Well i assume it means playing the way most top teams are playing these days. 

Both fullbacks pushing up high and wide allowing the wingers to tuck inside and roam into pockets of space (overloading the central areas), having CM's behind the ball that can pick a pass and be creative on the ball, having CB's that are able to play out from the back and play a high line.

 

To a lot of people, that's "total football," except it's not total football at all. I sense a ridiculous conversation upcoming about false nines and (wait for it) the false 10, which I've actually seen suggested in various forums online.

Okay. I see what you're saying but I'm a little bit sceptical of the idea that what you are describing is what most top sides are trying to achieve / implement and I still think "attacking"  is slightly too vague a term for that. 

This is an example of one of the things I'm struggling with : declarations that we are, at least in our two defeats, playing deep. 

Now the picture you are using is both a good illustration of what you are describing and at the same time meaningless without more contextualisation. I think we can probably agree that how deep or high you play is best measured using the average positions. 

So people confidently saying we played deep in those games are both stating something that is a fact and simultaneously speculating wildly (and wrongly imo). 

It can't be denied on the one hand- look at the average positions of our entire 11 against Liverpool in the first half and they may have all been in our half on the edge of the box. 

But is that by design? For me, no. Looking at the spacing / positioning of the players and to me it is clear that they are being instructed to establish possession before releasing a free midfield player (facing goal)  or finding the striker (facing away from goal). 

Your picture illustrates this first phase of play)  but it shows it at the end, where Germany have established the ball after a failed press (or no press) as Italy have reset into shape.  Hummels and Co do not start the move that high up the pitch. They start much much deeper than a more direct side would and the entire 11 need to be positioned and moving in sync properly for them to reach that point. 

Looking at conte teams from the past and looking at us now I am confident that this is what we are trying to do.  Against sides who have defended positionally when we have the ball at the back we have had no issues. Against arsenal and Liverpool we have repeatedly failed at the first hurdle. 

So in summary I'm saying I'm unsure how people can be so convinced we are trying to play deep and defensively (presumably purely because Oscar, matic, Willian and kante have all been picked at once- a conclusion I find to be lacking in insight) when to me it is obvious that what we are doing is faltering so early in its implementation. It's like rubbishing a book that hasn't been written yet.  You can criticise how long it is taking the author to write it, or whether he's got a good idea, but the fact remains there is very little on the page to make a judgement of. 

2 hours ago, dc19 said:

i thought you were referring to this

i just meant high pressing attacking teams. Germany played when in possession of the ball with their 2 cb's almost on the midway line and the full backs up high so they could outnumber the opponent 

in this example Hummels has the ball but when the ball moves up field the central defenders move up to the midway line and the two full backs become wingers

Isn't that what we've been trying to achieve? 

Look at the opening goal we conceded against Arsenal. Ivanovic is pushed up into Arsenal's half, Luiz and Cahill are pushed up to somewhere the edge of the centre circle. 

Cahill receives the ball in a similar position to where Hummels is in your example (albeit on the right side of defence) but because he is technically lacking when in possession of the ball the mistake is made. 

 

looks like he's retiring

Maybe hes been told to bulk up, and hes took it a bit to literally.

28 minutes ago, dkw said:

Maybe hes been told to bulk up, and hes took it a bit to literally.

Just a little mid-afternoon snack should be allowed

This is what a mid-afternoon snack looks like:

Not for someone from Spain. They like their tapas, as those one bite pizza-snacks show.

3 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

This is what a mid-afternoon snack looks like:

I f*cking love guinness

Beginning to be more and more sceptical that there's a place for Fab in this team. Would people be devastated if he left? If not, who could we replace him with? Presumably someone with the same distribution level but more mobility throughout the midfield... 

6 minutes ago, rtwelch said:

Beginning to be more and more sceptical that there's a place for Fab in this team. Would people be devastated if he left? If not, who could we replace him with? Presumably someone with the same distribution level but more mobility throughout the midfield... 

To be honest nearly all this team could leave and I wouldn't be devastated. For over a season and a half they have looked incapable of competing at the top level, bar the odd game here and there.

Tibo, Hazard, Terry, Aina, Willian, Zouma, Moses, Kante, Michy, Costa, Solanke, RLC, Chalobah ..... The rest would be wished luck and waved goodbye.

So in answer to your question no I wouldn't be disappointed to see him go.

And I would want a replacement chosen by Conte.

Bloke ordered some pizza for his children, journo's and fans think he's got depression or he doesn't give a f*ck.

11 hours ago, coco said:

To be honest nearly all this team could leave and I wouldn't be devastated. For over a season and a half they have looked incapable of competing at the top level, bar the odd game here and there.

Tibo, Hazard, Terry, Aina, Willian, Zouma, Moses, Kante, Michy, Costa, Solanke, RLC, Chalobah ..... The rest would be wished luck and waved goodbye.

So in answer to your question no I wouldn't be disappointed to see him go.

And I would want a replacement chosen by Conte.

I'd even take Tibo and Hazard out of that list. Costa has just about redeemed himself to a point where I'm happy to keep him, but i don't think i'll ever love him.

But in general, i agree wih you. Last year broke my affection and relationship with most of these players. I just don't care for them the same way I cared for most of our other groups of players over time

31 minutes ago, Coxy15 said:

I'd even take Tibo and Hazard out of that list. Costa has just about redeemed himself to a point where I'm happy to keep him, but i don't think i'll ever love him.

But in general, i agree wih you. Last year broke my affection and relationship with most of these players. I just don't care for them the same way I cared for most of our other groups of players over time

Totally agree.

I also think that is true, because the current crop of player simply dont have that feeling towards us the way the last bunch of DD, lamps, JT, cech, cole had. 

This is also where we have to get youth into the picture and make them our spine.

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by didierforever

13 hours ago, coco said:

To be honest nearly all this team could leave and I wouldn't be devastated. For over a season and a half they have looked incapable of competing at the top level, bar the odd game here and there.

Yep.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to collect a bob from all of those posters who, over the last 18 months, continually asserted (and still do albeit that there's far fewer of em' these days) that we had such a great squad & that it was all Mourinho's fault?

On 30/08/2016 at 09:18, brownindian said:

Delete this post

I still think Fabregas has a role with us but at age 29, given his history, I'm beginning to wonder if selling him now while he is valuable would be a good idea.

 

Although 29 is far from old in a player of his position and style you have to remember he's been playing first-team, top flight football in England since he was 17. He has a LOT of miles on the clock for a 29 year old, in high intensity environments like Arsenal and Barcelona, and he's lost a bit of his athleticism.

 

I think that football in 2016 has sort of moves beyond the point where you can play a static playmaker pinging passes to forwards, especially in the EPL. Modern midfielders are both more mobile and more technical than before.

Whenever a player doesn't get a few games, all we hear is that player will be leaving. If we sell all of these players then we won't have a squad big enough for Premier League.

11 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Whenever a player doesn't get a few games, all we hear is that player will be leaving. If we sell all of these players then we won't have a squad big enough for Premier League.

Well it's not quite a few games is it, 1 start out of 7 in the league for a team with no European football doesn't take much to guess his not a Conte type of player. Did he even come on in the last game? Pundits thought he would be leaving at the end of August.

For Fabregas to be in the team he would have to start and make himself unstoppable but it's getting those chances. Matic, Oscar and Willian all come before Fabregas.

It will be really difficult for him to get a game, when is the next Carling cup game? After the Arsenal debacle ( not necessarily Cesc's fault), I don't see Conte risking much in his team selection, unless we are playing Sunderland at home or serious injury problems. He will get a cameo if we are chasing the game, 2 strikers and Cesc as the last resort. I don't think Conte is comfortable to play Cesc if we are holding on to a 1:0. If we are cruising like last week, probably no point playing him either apart from give him some minutes. He could play in a midfield 3 beside Matic/Kante in 352 ,but dropping either Willian or Hazard will be a very tough call.

If oscar/mikel somehow outlast him, then there is something very wrong at this club

You know that they will. 

Isnt his deal up this season?

Dont think so. He has a contract until 2019.

Oscar has until 2019 too, Mikel has until 2017.

The way things are looking, cesc can be out as soon as the winter.