3 minutes ago, enigma said:

City were poor in Conte's first season. Pep was in a similar situation to Sarri now, albeit for a couple of much better players at his disposal and a team used to playing attacking football. Before the win at home under Sarri this season, we had lost the previous three meetings with City. The first season under Conte was great, but it was a season in which we had no European fixtures and we had a 20 goal a season striker in Costa, as well as a less competitive league. People are too harsh on Sarri, so we need to put things into perspective for all the reactionaries in our fanbase. 

This is what bias is.

City still have better player then us in Guardiola first season. And if you forget, it was Conte first season. City was in the CL, because they have good enough team. Guardiola spend big from his very first season. And if we talk about striker, they still have the better one in Aguero side.

And did you forget when Conte took us, we was 10th???

So the right comparison is to compare the same period. So Conte first year and Sarri first year.

Conte also need time, simply because he wanted to play totally different football and system.

He also take hits, but manage to change things arround, made 4-5 changes in the squad and turns the season into winning one.

 

The second Conte season is irrelevant comparison to anything, simply because it was a well known he is gone from the very begining.

Huge mess with the board, not getting what he wanted, constant s**** with boards and the player.

As far as i recall most of you was saying that Sarri don`t care about transfer and new players, he was simply that good, he simply improve his squad.

You remember this ?

Most of you was swearing at him, and how good and better then Conte he is. How he is a world class manager.

I respect you keep your opinion, and i stood by Sarri side, because it`s not his fault, he didn`t get enough players, he was not appointed as a manager at the right time, he missed the pre season and has to work with unmotivated, washed player that still think their the best and live in their fantasy world.
Right now Chelsea is a nightmare for anyone with this blind and distance owner, as well as the board and player power.

Our player have so high self-esteem, it`s just not real. As i said they live in a fantasy world.
Their arent top notch anymore. Most of the squad need total change.

We need bussy summer with 6-7 in and out transfers and to start fresh.

 

22 minutes ago, enigma said:

Track record of what exactly? Pellegrini has won the league with city, do you think he is an ideal candidate for the job? You can go through a whole list of managers as long as my arm who have "won things" yet doesn't mean they are or will be the right man for the job or even if they will have success. Klopp has been given time by Liverpool to build a squad, as well as smart investment by their board. Last season Sarri achieved 91 points with Napoli only to be beaten to the title by Juventus who amassed 95 points. The 2-3 seasons before then, Juventus won the title with 91 points and/or 87 points.

Napoli in any season before then would have won the league. You only have to look at the Premier League to see apart from a couple freak seasons recently, amassing 91 points over the course of the season is difficult enough in any league, including England, and Italy is more tactically adept in many experts and players opinions. I think the proof is in the pudding how good our team can be with patience, backing of the manager and smart investment. However, the problem is, people have no patience and expect everything to come easy and not accept there to be rough periods. 

Yes but you'd be more patient with someone when their CV suggests that they are a winner which is the point I am making.  So can't compare Sarri and Pep (and Klopp hasn't actually won anything yet). 

2 minutes ago, hutchslongthrow said:

Yes but you'd be more patient with someone when their CV suggests that they are a winner which is the point I am making.  So can't compare Sarri and Pep (and Klopp hasn't actually won anything yet). 

Zidane wouldn't have won what he won without Ronaldo, Bale, Modric, Ramos, Marcelo etc. Doesn't matter how much the manager has or hasn't won, if he doesn't have the right set of players it will never work. Zidane (as an example) had genuine match winners in his squad, for e.g last seasons CL winner from Bale. Pep has had the likes of prime Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Muller etc at his disposal. Sarri has never had the fortune of managing teams with those players, so i'm not surprised he hasn't won anything with the teams he's coached. 

2 hours ago, carrickblue said:

Souness - everyone in Chelsea's midfield can be bullied by a physical challenge

Carragher - when Chelsea have been successful they've had a big powerful side, Sarri's made them weak  

I wouldn’t say Man City have a big powerful midfield, so more crap from the pundits 

59 minutes ago, enigma said:

Stats from the City losses under Conte: 

 

0 - 1 loss at home our stats for that game were:

Shots on target = 2 

Shots in total = 4 

Possession = 38%

 

1 - 0 loss away at City under Conte: 

Shots on target = 0

Shots in total = 3 

Possession = 28% 

 

Stats from City games under Sarri: 

2-0 win at home: 

Shots on target = 5 

Shots in total = 8 

Possession = 38% 

 

0-6 away loss today under Sarri: 

Shots on target = 4 

Shots in total = 12 

Possession = 44% 

 

 

We were robbed !!

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

Guardiola on Sarri etc: "People don't understand how difficult it is to do something. In my first season it was tough too. It takes time, it needs owners to really believe in that. I don't have to convince Txiki, he knows me. He knows I'm not good when I win or bad when I lose."

 

I think Pep hit the nail on the head when he said that it depends how much the owner wants want attacking football. 

If they sack Sarri, it means they have given up. 

He can say that all he wants when he’s backed with unlimited funds and a club which has no regard for FFP. Chelsea are a completely different club and will not back a manager with the money that Pep has had anymore. 

As we are all aware, football is a funny game & teams beat others when not expected to. If otherwise, then bookies would be broke by now?.
Forget the malmo games, our next 3 against in the Cups & league are the crucial ones. Call me bonkers, but wont be surprised if we beat City in League Cup final!.
Last season pre FA Cup Final, not many on here rated our chances, but I did & said so. Hope i'm right in 2 weeks time, albeit will have to be different tactics than today.
Keep the faith, appreciate currently equivalent to pushing water uphill, but need to think positive. Stranger things have happened?.

2 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I think you need to calm down a bit, this is Chelsea forum and we all want Chelsea to win.

Conte lost the players last season they stopped playing for top 4 though turned up at the FA Final and did well then, though the previous season not being involved in Europe gave him the extra time to build a well drilled side.

Re Sarri agree he is stubborn and unlike Conte has not made the best of the squad and has brought us tikki taka football which is toothless against top teams. Most of us that looked forward to a more attacking football did not know about this regista role which detracts from attacking football and can be closed down too easily.

Getting rid of Conte for turning the squad against himself made sense though hiring Sarri now looks like a major error as his insistence on methods that do not suit our squad with no tactical differences against superior teams risks destroying our season. 

Agree with you Strider, as i often do. However i would expand on your last paragraph as i feel the decisions made from the board in recent years have shown a pattern of reaction rather than proaction.

Mourinho lost the dressing room (allegedly). The players downed tools, Costa threw his bib, the fans held banners about the three rats, etc. blah, blah. When Mourinho was sacked the fans were in uproar, chanting his name throughout matches, showing our support. Then he went to Man Ure and we hated him. We wanted a manager that would whip these prima donnas into shape and show them who was boss.

So we brought in disciplinarian Conte, who ran their bollox off. Without Europe he had time to make them fitter than anyone else and implemented a brand new formation that most of the league followed on with. We won the league. Hooray. Following on the disciplinarian theme he bided his time, won the league, then bombed Costa. Mistake? Perhaps. Definitely if no back up plan was in place.

Conte then tried to get the targets that he wanted to cement our chance of winning the CL, but no we didn't do that. Furthermore the players complained that the training was too hard, too repetitive and unsustainable in a season which included european football. So Conte played out all of his frustration in front of the press and over a period of time virtually goaded the board to sack him. Meanwhile the football became turgid, predictable and unacceptable in some quarters.

So then we needed someone who woudl bring us attackign football. Flair, passion. A style to fit the array of attacking talent that we have. So we then got Sarri, who showed soem fantastic palying style, albeit in a much slower league. His only drawback, by his own admisison, is that he sticks with a hard core of players without changing greatly and will stick to his principles resolutely.

Here we are now, finding out that actually, with the exception of two or three players, most of the team are individually not good enough at the level that we desire and the previous recent success has actually been due to the overachieving from canny management by the managers that we have discarded.  Our owner clearly has less enthusiasm about the teams direction. After all RDM got sacked after winning the CL,  not thumped by Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man City in quick succession.

We have a manager who has a vision about a style that does not look possible with the players that he has, yet he is intractable about changing the personnel. He is not prepared to bleed the youngsters yet the senior players are starting to look like they are preventing natural progression.  Without a board capable of funding a major overhaul, how is this manager going to get the best out of this tired group of players that, on the face of it, appear to have a collective over inflated opinion of their capabilities. It doesn't help, of course with Sarri's natural honesty being used by the British press to try to catch him out and hang him.Today was a comical level of child like subtlety in the baiting from Sky.

If we sacked him now, what will be the next reaction from this board blundering around in the dark. Back to Mourinho to stop leaking the goals??!!

We're all doomed, I tell ya!

 

27 minutes ago, gazza said:

I wouldn’t say Man City have a big powerful midfield, so more crap from the pundits 

Jorginho would be bullied by every midfielder in the prem so sounds correct to me.

28 minutes ago, gazza said:

I wouldn’t say Man City have a big powerful midfield, so more crap from the pundits 

But they still bullied us, as were chasing shadows around them

worth a read https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2019/2/10/18219352/sapless-sarri-does-not-fear-sack-does-not-see-his-football-at-chelsea-either

and this from before today's game when Sarri flirts with the idea of playing a false no 9 again (FFS!) https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2019/2/10/18219068/sarri-acknowledges-need-for-tactical-flexibility-against-manchester-city

4 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Agree with you Strider, as i often do. However i would expand on your last paragraph as i feel the decisions made from the board in recent years have shown a pattern of reaction rather than proaction.

Mourinho lost the dressing room (allegedly). The players downed tools, Costa threw his bib, the fans held banners about the three rats, etc. blah, blah. When Mourinho was sacked the fans were in uproar, chanting his name throughout matches, showing our support. Then he went to Man Ure and we hated him. We wanted a manager that would whip these prima donnas into shape and show them who was boss.

So we brought in disciplinarian Conte, who ran their bollox off. Without Europe he had time to make them fitter than anyone else and implemented a brand new formation that most of the league followed on with. We won the league. Hooray. Following on the disciplinarian theme he bided his time, won the league, then bombed Costa. Mistake? Perhaps. Definitely if no back up plan was in place.

Conte then tried to get the targets that he wanted to cement our chance of winning the CL, but no we didn't do that. Furthermore the players complained that the training was too hard, too repetitive and unsustainable in a season which included european football. So Conte played out all of his frustration in front of the press and over a period of time virtually goaded the board to sack him. Meanwhile the football became turgid, predictable and unacceptable in some quarters.

So then we needed someone who woudl bring us attackign football. Flair, passion. A style to fit the array of attacking talent that we have. So we then got Sarri, who showed soem fantastic palying style, albeit in a much slower league. His only drawback, by his own admisison, is that he sticks with a hard core of players without changing greatly and will stick to his principles resolutely.

Here we are now, finding out that actually, with the exception of two or three players, most of the team are individually not good enough at the level that we desire and the previous recent success has actually been due to the overachieving from canny management by the managers that we have discarded.  Our owner clearly has less enthusiasm about the teams direction. After all RDM got sacked after winning the CL,  not thumped by Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man City in quick succession.

We have a manager who has a vision about a style that does not look possible with the players that he has, yet he is intractable about changing the personnel. He is not prepared to bleed the youngsters yet the senior players are starting to look like they are preventing natural progression.  Without a board capable of funding a major overhaul, how is this manager going to get the best out of this tired group of players that, on the face of it, appear to have a collective over inflated opinion of their capabilities. It doesn't help, of course with Sarri's natural honesty being used by the British press to try to catch him out and hang him.Today was a comical level of child like subtlety in the baiting from Sky.

Haven't heard of proaction yet agree about not being proactive. We didn't get Sarri until almost the end of the window which begs the question like with Sandro are we being realistic with our targets for players and managers?

I think we do have some good players, I really rate Rudiger, like Azpi though think he is much better as a CB. Kante is not suited to his current role at the top level. 

Hazard looks like his mind is clouded with dreams of Real Madrid. 

RLC looks quality when he is fit. 

I like what you said in grey bold text and in brown text agree and notice RLC gets more time after threatening to move. The CHO situation is strange especially when we needed vertical pace up front today. 

23 minutes ago, The Leigh Limpet said:

As we are all aware, football is a funny game & teams beat others when not expected to. If otherwise, then bookies would be broke by now?.
Forget the malmo games, our next 3 against in the Cups & league are the crucial ones. Call me bonkers, but wont be surprised if we beat City in League Cup final!.
Last season pre FA Cup Final, not many on here rated our chances, but I did & said so. Hope i'm right in 2 weeks time, albeit will have to be different tactics than today.
Keep the faith, appreciate currently equivalent to pushing water uphill, but need to think positive. Stranger things have happened?.

We can only hope, he has though said he won't change.

10 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Agree with you Strider, as i often do. However i would expand on your last paragraph as i feel the decisions made from the board in recent years have shown a pattern of reaction rather than proaction.

Mourinho lost the dressing room (allegedly). The players downed tools, Costa threw his bib, the fans held banners about the three rats, etc. blah, blah. When Mourinho was sacked the fans were in uproar, chanting his name throughout matches, showing our support. Then he went to Man Ure and we hated him. We wanted a manager that would whip these prima donnas into shape and show them who was boss.

So we brought in disciplinarian Conte, who ran their bollox off. Without Europe he had time to make them fitter than anyone else and implemented a brand new formation that most of the league followed on with. We won the league. Hooray. Following on the disciplinarian theme he bided his time, won the league, then bombed Costa. Mistake? Perhaps. Definitely if no back up plan was in place.

Conte then tried to get the targets that he wanted to cement our chance of winning the CL, but no we didn't do that. Furthermore the players complained that the training was too hard, too repetitive and unsustainable in a season which included european football. So Conte played out all of his frustration in front of the press and over a period of time virtually goaded the board to sack him. Meanwhile the football became turgid, predictable and unacceptable in some quarters.

So then we needed someone who woudl bring us attackign football. Flair, passion. A style to fit the array of attacking talent that we have. So we then got Sarri, who showed soem fantastic palying style, albeit in a much slower league. His only drawback, by his own admisison, is that he sticks with a hard core of players without changing greatly and will stick to his principles resolutely.

Here we are now, finding out that actually, with the exception of two or three players, most of the team are individually not good enough at the level that we desire and the previous recent success has actually been due to the overachieving from canny management by the managers that we have discarded.  Our owner clearly has less enthusiasm about the teams direction. After all RDM got sacked after winning the CL,  not thumped by Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man City in quick succession.

We have a manager who has a vision about a style that does not look possible with the players that he has, yet he is intractable about changing the personnel. He is not prepared to bleed the youngsters yet the senior players are starting to look like they are preventing natural progression.  Without a board capable of funding a major overhaul, how is this manager going to get the best out of this tired group of players that, on the face of it, appear to have a collective over inflated opinion of their capabilities. It doesn't help, of course with Sarri's natural honesty being used by the British press to try to catch him out and hang him.Today was a comical level of child like subtlety in the baiting from Sky.

If we sacked him now, what will be the next reaction from this board blundering around in the dark. Back to Mourinho to stop leaking the goals??!!

We're all doomed, I tell ya!

 

I still think the players are good enough for the most part. But they  need to play in a system that suits their ability.  It's the rigid same formation every game  and for the whole of each game that I am finding hard to stomach.  We're obviously not good enough to just turn up and play our own game regardless of who the opponent is and that seems to be the only tactic at present..  And maybe Jorginho doesn't have to be  guaranteed a start every week, is pulled off or has his role adjusted when he gets targeted as has happened with alarming frequency. And it's upsetting seeing Kante looking like a lost little boy when we all know where his talents lie.

Do expect to lose the odd game especially when you players are adapting to a new system but it's also about lessons learnt.  Doesn't appear that locking the players in the dressing room for 40 mins has achieved much.

 

 

it'll be interesting to see if Sarri can get his head around adjusting his approach.

thinking of Klopp and gegenpress - he still plays a pressing game but it's not just as full-on and frenetic as it was when he first tried it. He seems to have learned that it took too much out of his players - the game in England is not the game in Germany

if Sarri could simply adjust now, he could still be successful but the game in England is also not the same as Italy and Jorginho has been found out. Everyone knows how to stop us. We got away with it at the start of the season because it looked new and different but the PL arms-race doesn't take long to catch up.

Well that was a difficult watch but I think I'm over it now.  I didn't expect much of a result from this match but have to admit I was shocked by the capitulation and abject failure to deal with the obvious threats Man City posed from the start.

I think this team clearly lacks a leader on the pitch. Someone who when things are going wrong as they clearly were today, takes control and changes things while the game is in progress. In my opinion Rudiger at least showed some of those qualities today.

I felt sorry for Kepa, he was given no cover at all and looked dejected by it, can't say I blame him. Higuain was isolated for much of the game but did at least appear to be putting in some effort and had a fantastic shot saved.

It's difficult to see where we go from here. An owner who for understandable reasons seems to have lost a bit of interest, a manager/coach who only seems to have one style of play and a squad who can't seem to adapt to it and don't seem too bothered.

Trying to keep my chin up

 

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, The Leigh Limpet said:

As we are all aware, football is a funny game & teams beat others when not expected to. If otherwise, then bookies would be broke by now?.
Forget the malmo games, our next 3 against in the Cups & league are the crucial ones. Call me bonkers, but wont be surprised if we beat City in League Cup final!.
Last season pre FA Cup Final, not many on here rated our chances, but I did & said so. Hope i'm right in 2 weeks time, albeit will have to be different tactics than today.
Keep the faith, appreciate currently equivalent to pushing water uphill, but need to think positive. Stranger things have happened?.

YOU ARE BONKERS.LOL

Christ, if ever there was a player (Jorginho aside) who looks completely shot right now, it’s Alonso. 

On another note, I hope our hapless board didn’t budget for the champions league next season. They’re in for a nasty shock. 

1 hour ago, hutchslongthrow said:

Yes but you'd be more patient with someone when their CV suggests that they are a winner which is the point I am making.  So can't compare Sarri and Pep (and Klopp hasn't actually won anything yet). 

We signed Sarri to get us competing playing a quality brand of football, something he has proven capable of doing.

If Sarri can get us in the same positions in title races he got Napoli in then hopefully the winning culture around the club aids final push over the line.

2 hours ago, gazza said:

I wouldn’t say Man City have a big powerful midfield, so more crap from the pundits 

Neither Fernandinho nor De Bruyne are not exactly midgets and Kante and Jorginho are both shortish and sleight of build so they have a point, IMO.

Just now, Strider6003 said:

Neither Fernandinho nor De Bruyne are not exactly midgets and Kante and Jorginho are both shortish and sleight of build so they have a point, IMO.

I clearly remember Kante pushing around and robbing Pogba when we played MU- that made me laugh.  Kante is my second favorite after Bison.

Well... Here's what I have to say about Chelsea/City today - - 

But on the bright side, the local club sponsored by Chelsea had its tournament this weekend, and my boy brought home a Winner's medal. I think you'll like the look of it. 

I'll rant about this game/team tomorrow 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

But they still bullied us, as were chasing shadows around them

Chasing shadows yes , but not physically bullied like they are saying

Just end me. Sheesh what a gross f**king game.

42 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Well... Here's what I have to say about Chelsea/City today - - 

But on the bright side, the local club sponsored by Chelsea had its tournament this weekend, and my boy brought home a Winner's medal. I think you'll like the look of it. 

I'll rant about this game/team tomorrow 

 

It looks so pretty. Congrats for your kid and respect!