It's hard to stay objective really, without getting emotional about it. 

I think we've been piss poor since December, before that we were excellent, had a real vision, a good way of playing, but a poor defence that needed some better quality and coaching. But now? What's the vision now? It's gone a bit backwards. It's tinkering after tinkering, we've changed up so many times this season, it's 3 at the back then 4 at the back, it's two in the middle, then 3, it's Jorginho playing Regista, then it's Kante being a holding midfielder... 

Not sure what's the right move at the moment. 

Lampard wants to play attacking football and he expects to have capable defenders that are able to do their job. We don't have those kind of players...Sarri knew it, Conte knew it and Jose knew it.

No wonder that Sarri kept preaching about the "basics" for half a season, he was treating the squad like they're kids for a good reason. It's amazing that we still give chances to someone that doesn't know how to deal with a simple cross...I mean even in games where we do create a lot of chances we struggle to win because the opposition doesn't need much in order to score. Anyone can get an easy tap in against us.

This was Sheffield that is actually a good, top 6 team, they put 2 strikers up front and they didn't have any problems with us having 70% possession because they knew that as soon as we lose the ball at least one of their strikes will get a clear cut chance inside our box. Well both did get their chances, east headers and easy tap-ins...

I'm convinced that it really doesn't matter who is playing in the midfield and in attack, Werner and Ziyech will help us as they are really good but ultimately nobody can do the job of the CB for 90 min, even if we buy Casemiro and Kimmich and put them in midfield with Kante we would still struggle because 1 ball in the box is enough for us to concede a goal, we surrender pretty fast...Don't get me wrong I would be happy if we were to sign Declan Rice but honestly if your weak link is your defense it's pretty hard for others to fix it during the course of a whole season.

If I just observe the facts, it's shocking to me that we don't have a real natural Left-Back and that our best CB isn't even that obvious as we simply don't have a real leader in defense at all, all great teams have something distinctive about them but every single one of them has a leader in defense, something that we simply don't have. If we keep going forward with players like Christensen we will find ourselves as depressing as Arsenal is, in just a few seasons, Lampard has to know that his tactics can't work with the current players.

Edited July 11, 20206 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Chris Wilder is a very good manager and certainly better than Frank at the moment. But he has many years of managerial experience over him too. If Frank can learn from days like this he can also be a top manager.

I haven't seen anything yet to prove otherwise, same mistakes defensively from the start of the season that haven't been fixed, if this was any other manger they would be slaughtered, the double standard is so not event surprising as most people have their Lampard shade's on.

We we got spanked last season Sarri made changes that sure up our defensive which ended with Europa League and 3rd. Conte after the Arsenal match made a change which ended in a League title, all those examples could have gone the other way had those mangers hadn't learn. 

I haven't seen anything from any of the horror show's this season that shows Frank has learnt anything from the first Match of the season until now, just think about that, we are as bad defensively today as we were on day one. No progress and this excuse about players is played out. Yes they are not the best defender's but definitely not as bad as they are being setup to be. 

I believe I said this as the start of the season if you don't have Hollywood players don't try and play Hollywood football know your lane and stay in it.

 

We were 10 points ahead of United at one point 10 points!!!!

2 hours ago, Brutos said:

our defenders are they are not that bad.

Did you actually see Rudiger today ? It's painful watching him play, he can't cope with the ball at his feet, he's purely all about aerial ability and mass, football skills are non existent, bar a 9 iron type kick he can hit out to the wings, if the ball is at his feet and he's under pressure it's like watching slapstick footy, today a great example of how a simple clearance out behind goal turned into a spaghetti western with him dead on the floor.

Rudiger Christensen and Kepa the 'bluemurder triangle', if the ball goes in the triangle it vanishes....in the net.

 

7 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I haven't seen anything yet to prove otherwise, same mistakes defensively from the start of the season that haven't been fixed, if this was any other manger they would be slaughtered, the double standard is so not event surprising as most people have their Lampard shade's on.

We we got spanked last season Sarri made changes that sure up our defensive which ended with Europa League and 3rd. Conte after the Arsenal match made a change which ended in a League title, all those examples could have gone the other way had those mangers hadn't learn. 

I haven't seen anything from any of the horror show's this season that shows Frank has learnt anything from the first Match of the season until now, just think about that, we are as bad defensively today as we were on day one. No progress and this excuse about players is played out. Yes they are not the best defender's but definitely not as bad as they are being setup to be. 

I believe I said this as the start of the season if you don't have Hollywood players don't try and play Hollywood football know your lane and stay in it.

 

We were 10 points ahead of United at one point 10 points!!!!

Fair points but Sarri had 2 other key defenders that are better than our current options. So he was able to make some changes. Conte still had Courtois in goal ( a much better option in my opinion) not to mention JT. Who would you put in defense to improve us right now? I would say Tomori for sure but I know he is injured. I have already stated that I don't like zonal marking and I think scrapping that system might help a bit. But there is only so much that can be done with the personnel that are currently available. We don't just need 1 CB, I think we need at least 2 new defenders and a decent keeper.

2 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Fair points but Sarri had 2 other key defenders that are better than our current options. So he was able to make some changes. Conte still had Courtois in goal ( a much better option in my opinion) not to mention JT. Who would you put in defense to improve us right now? I would say Tomori for sure but I know he is injured. I have already stated that I don't like zonal marking and I think scrapping that system might help a bit. But there is only so much that can be done with the personnel that are currently available. We don't just need 1 CB, I think we need at least 2 new defenders and a decent keeper.

Sheffield United do not have better defenders or overall personal than us and we made them look like Atletico Madrid today, this is a systematic issue which actually may get worst with new defenders because if the manager precieved new defenders as better(which is why we buy then in the first place)will he actually change how we defend or continue with the suicidal tactics and what appears to be lack of defensive organisation?

Can more talented defenders help most definitely, can more talented defenders setup themselves tactically, no that comes from the manager, that's his job.

 

We have lost 11 matches first time in Romans era. 

The decision to offload Luis doesn't seem so smart after all, does it? For all his faults, he was quite OK for us (at least not as bad as the clowns in defense now). 

5 hours ago, Brutos said:

Sheffield United do not have better defenders or overall personal than us and we made them look like Atletico Madrid today, this is a systematic issue which actually may get worst with new defenders because if the manager precieved new defenders as better(which is why we buy then in the first place)will he actually change how we defend or continue with the suicidal tactics and what appears to be lack of defensive organisation?

Can more talented defenders help most definitely, can more talented defenders setup themselves tactically, no that comes from the manager, that's his job.

 

No they dont, but they are team in every sense of the word and we are not.

I said it before. We are a top 8 side punching above our weight, and that's because of Lampard's faith in youth and his and Jody's coaching.  Neither Sarri or Conte, or even Mourinho would be doing better with this side.

Losing Hazard was huge. People underestimate how big of an impact Eden actually had. Him leaving left us in a sh*t position already, but then the lack of transfer market also affected us. 

Before Lampard came I was sceptical as he hadn't coached at the top level or won anything. However, thinking about it logically he's had a big hill to climb with the loss of our best player, no transfer window, and the consequences of a board who have been poor in the transfer market in recent seasons.

We simply don't have good enough players and haven't had title challenging side since Conte's first season. Kante, one of our best players, has been deteriorating for a while. Our defence is average. Azpilicueta is no longer the player he was, and going forward is very poor. Barkley is average.

Kovacic is good enough, but no game changer. Jorginho is inconsistent. Pedro is old and inconsistent. Willian is inconsistent. Giroud is average and aging. Batshuayi is average. We literally don't have a single world class player in our side. 

5 hours ago, Brutos said:

Sheffield United do not have better defenders or overall personal than us and we made them look like Atletico Madrid today, this is a systematic issue which actually may get worst with new defenders because if the manager precieved new defenders as better(which is why we buy then in the first place)will he actually change how we defend or continue with the suicidal tactics and what appears to be lack of defensive organisation?

Can more talented defenders help most definitely, can more talented defenders setup themselves tactically, no that comes from the manager, that's his job.

 

Yes. They were better in every area of the pitch today and they play very well as a team. Individually they don't have many standout stars but collectively they are very strong and that is why they are in the top 6. Kudos to them. We are a long way from a team that could challenge for titles but I would argue that we have been this way for the most part since Jose's last title with us. Conte managed a small miracle to grind out a memorable title but the signs of decay were already there. Poor decisions in the transfer market and a failure to replace key players eventually led us to a weakened squad and that is especially evident in defense. The last couple of seasons we have had several outings like today where we have been soundly beaten. For many years we just didn't see that happening, but we no longer have that strength, backbone, or leadership in defense. We will hopefully sign some quality in defense in the next window but we also need some leadership on the field. That is sorely missing right now. I do agree on the defensive tactics too. Lets hope we get in a quality defensive coach and go back to man marking. 

6 hours ago, Brutos said:

I haven't seen anything yet to prove otherwise, same mistakes defensively from the start of the season that haven't been fixed, if this was any other manger they would be slaughtered, the double standard is so not event surprising as most people have their Lampard shade's on.

We we got spanked last season Sarri made changes that sure up our defensive which ended with Europa League and 3rd. Conte after the Arsenal match made a change which ended in a League title, all those examples could have gone the other way had those mangers hadn't learn. 

I haven't seen anything from any of the horror show's this season that shows Frank has learnt anything from the first Match of the season until now, just think about that, we are as bad defensively today as we were on day one. No progress and this excuse about players is played out. Yes they are not the best defender's but definitely not as bad as they are being setup to be. 

I believe I said this as the start of the season if you don't have Hollywood players don't try and play Hollywood football know your lane and stay in it.

 

We were 10 points ahead of United at one point 10 points!!!!

Without Hazard we would have finished about 6th (at least) last season. 

My god this is a depressing thread. I seem to recall this entire forum’s consensus, during preseason, was that we had no shot at top 4 this season. Now we are right in the thick of it and we’ve got unbelievably ignorant posts occurring.

Some really don’t think there’s a vision for the club? I’d argue we have the clearest vision that’s there’s been in years. Some think Frank isn’t up to the task? It’s his second season as a manger, he’s a bright football mind and a great man manager, he will figure it out.

It’s absolutely an unbelievably exciting time to be a Chelsea fan and the future is so bright - both short and long-term.

Another embarrassing lose no doubt, but realistically we know we aren't a top 4 team. Even Pep had some shocking results in his first season, when he didn't have his own team. The next season he had his buy and turned around quickly. I'm not saying Lampard will win the title next season if he gets his wishes in the transfer market, but I reckon if he gets another 2-3 players, next season will be a lot different. When you have defenders that couldn't mark, or couldn't run or jump, there's not much a manager could do much about it, apart from getting better players. Lampard clearly has his own vision and plan, and he's not going to succeed straight away with these bunch of players.

What we have is:

-An highly inexperienced manager but a very smart man as our manager 

-Very progressive style of play. In Chelsea standards the most progressive football we have seen under Roman's era. 

-Very unbalanced squad. 

-High profile players, low profile players, average players, first season players. 

-Probably a goalkeeper that isn't good enough. 

-Players in various positions that are not good enough or fitting to the system. 

-Very exciting future. 

Didn't watch game last night, earnt some brownie points and sat in garden with Mrs and had some beers, so can't comment on last night's game, but reading some of these posts I take it we were sh*te, a couple of things though, this isn't a title run in, so we haven't blown a trophy we are going for 4th place, to be honest we aren't going to win champs league so not end of world, I'm still excited about the future, we could be Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham, in huge souless stadiums, teams that are sh*te and going backwards, boards and chairman they detest and managers in a couple of cases they can't stand, those three clubs look across to us with huge envy, let's enjoy it

Qualifying for the CL is nothing to do with having serious expectations about winning it. It is far more to do with making us a more attractive proposition to potential transfer targets. Teams not in CL have attracted big targets before but there ks no doubt its easier with the CL carrot.
Also the CL money pot is more and more important due to FFP and the economic climate.

 

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

I think we've been piss poor since December

Thats harsh, before yesterday we had won six out of our last seven. We were in fine form but yesterday was just brutal obviously.

 

6 hours ago, enigma said:

I said it before. We are a top 8 side punching above our weight, and that's because of Lampard's faith in youth and his and Jody's coaching.  Neither Sarri or Conte, or even Mourinho would be doing better with this side.

Losing Hazard was huge. People underestimate how big of an impact Eden actually had. Him leaving left us in a sh*t position already, but then the lack of transfer market also affected us. 

Before Lampard came I was sceptical as he hadn't coached at the top level or won anything. However, thinking about it logically he's had a big hill to climb with the loss of our best player, no transfer window, and the consequences of a board who have been poor in the transfer market in recent seasons.

We simply don't have good enough players and haven't had title challenging side since Conte's first season. Kante, one of our best players, has been deteriorating for a while. Our defence is average. Azpilicueta is no longer the player he was, and going forward is very poor. Barkley is average.

Kovacic is good enough, but no game changer. Jorginho is inconsistent. Pedro is old and inconsistent. Willian is inconsistent. Giroud is average and aging. Batshuayi is average. We literally don't have a single world class player in our side. 

Totally agree with what you have said and I've said it on here many times having Hazard allowed us under what ever manager to be more solid at the back because he was a world class player. We are now seeing how terrible recruitment and changing managers who are completely different have left us with the squad of players we currently have. 

I personally think Frank has done a great job with the current squad but the next two summer windows are massive for this club. If this time next year the defence hasn't improved and money has been invested i feel some of the criticism frank is getting now will be justified. 

Before covid i thought the club had two option this summer be totally ruthless and gut the team bring in a load of players at once which can have mixed results or trust in Frank and give him time to slowly build his own team. 

For me we need a new GK, left back, 2 Centre backs, Holding midfielder and a centre forward.  

 

 

It's a bit sad to see how big of a nosedive our youngsters seems to have taken. At the start of the season the likes of Tammy, Mount, James, Tomori and CHO were all shining but none of them have kept it up really. Inconsistency is to be expected but apart from Mount who's been decent throughout the season you have to say the rest have struggled. They were considered some of the best talents in the nation too but now you have to feel they are about to be left behind by the likes of Foden, Greenwood and Saka. 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Thats harsh, before yesterday we had won six out of our last seven. We were in fine form but yesterday was just brutal obviously.

 

Six in our last 11 is good? And let's be fair here, we scraped through Villa and Palace. I know we've had some excellent performances, but consistently we haven't been as good since early in the season. 

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Six in our last 11 is good? And let's be fair here, we scraped through Villa and Palace. I know we've had some excellent performances, but consistently we haven't been as good since early in the season. 

You must have the wrong numbers. We've won 8 out of our last 12 as far as i can see. In all competitions that is.

8 hours ago, enigma said:

I said it before. We are a top 8 side punching above our weight, and that's because of Lampard's faith in youth and his and Jody's coaching.  Neither Sarri or Conte, or even Mourinho would be doing better with this side.

Losing Hazard was huge. People underestimate how big of an impact Eden actually had. Him leaving left us in a sh*t position already, but then the lack of transfer market also affected us. 

Before Lampard came I was sceptical as he hadn't coached at the top level or won anything. However, thinking about it logically he's had a big hill to climb with the loss of our best player, no transfer window, and the consequences of a board who have been poor in the transfer market in recent seasons.

We simply don't have good enough players and haven't had title challenging side since Conte's first season. Kante, one of our best players, has been deteriorating for a while. Our defence is average. Azpilicueta is no longer the player he was, and going forward is very poor. Barkley is average.

Kovacic is good enough, but no game changer. Jorginho is inconsistent. Pedro is old and inconsistent. Willian is inconsistent. Giroud is average and aging. Batshuayi is average. We literally don't have a single world class player in our side. 

A lot of this just sounds like pessimism and fickleness, especially considering you were praising how good Ole and United are yesterday. 

40 minutes ago, Sindre said:

It's a bit sad to see how big of a nosedive our youngsters seems to have taken. At the start of the season the likes of Tammy, Mount, James, Tomori and CHO were all shining but none of them have kept it up really. Inconsistency is to be expected but apart from Mount who's been decent throughout the season you have to say the rest have struggled. They were considered some of the best talents in the nation too but now you have to feel they are about to be left behind by the likes of Foden, Greenwood and Saka. 

I still think it has been a success neither Mount or James look out of place.

Tammy has been found out after a promising start, either he adapts or his future probably is not at Chelsea.

Tomori and CHO need longer before making a judgment because of the injury lay-offs.

Just to have two show first team potential is arguably a success.

 

 

Remember when we got absolutely ruined by City last season? And that turned out okay... keep the faith people!!