On 18/10/2021 at 02:57, PhilH930 said:

Just not cutting it in any sense or fashion.  Would rather Odoi got game time over Ziyech, and probably will be loaned out to Italy next summer.

There's talk of Overmars as DOF and Erik ten Hag as manager at Newcastle, in which case maybe they'll put in a bid for Ziyech in January ? The old Ajax connection, etc etc. Could see that duo also bidding for De Beek at Man Utd.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

There's talk of Overmars as DOF and Erik ten Hag as manager at Newcastle, in which case maybe they'll put in a bid for Ziyech in January ? The old Ajax connection, etc etc. Could see that duo also bidding for De Beek at Man Utd.

If that played out, we should probably take it. He's last in the pecking order to me (Lukaku, Mount, Timo, Havertz, Pulisic, Odoi in whatever order would all start ahead).  Hopefully proves me wrong.

Bloke doesn’t need to shower after a match, never breaks a sweat…

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Bloke doesn’t need to shower after a match, never breaks a sweat…

Some rumours the Toon are looking to take both Ajax coach and Marc Overmars too. If so hopefully they come in for Ziyech.

In a crowd of average to awful displays Hakim took the cake.

Is this his ceiling? 

Going forward, we shouldn't buy players who thrive in a set of system. All the players from Ajax of that season have all been meh just like the players from that Monaco team has been. 

 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

Is this his ceiling? 

Going forward, we shouldn't buy players who thrive in a set of system. All the players from Ajax of that season have all been meh just like the players from that Monaco team has been. 

 

Yeah been very underwhelming for me too… too careless in possession .. this works if you are breaking stats records but is not assisting or scoring much either which makes it look even worse.

2 hours ago, Deino said:

Is this his ceiling? 

Going forward, we shouldn't buy players who thrive in a set of system. All the players from Ajax of that season have all been meh just like the players from that Monaco team has been. 

 

To some degree every player thrive in specific system. It is very2 difficult to sign player that can play in any system. The one that can are usually just so damn good (Fabregas, hazard, kante) or very versatile (pedro, willian).  They are difficult to find though

Fabregas managed to force Conte to abandon his philosophy was one of the most impressive thing I have seen

 

 

Continues to disappoint, this transfer just hasn't worked out and maybe its time to cut our losses. Pity he was the player I had the most hope for when he signed. I think he'd look very nice in a Black/White striped shirt. 

57 minutes ago, charierre said:

Continues to disappoint, this transfer just hasn't worked out and maybe its time to cut our losses. Pity he was the player I had the most hope for when he signed. I think he'd look very nice in a Black/White striped shirt. 

Bit tough that as he was always a punt. But with injuries and inconsistent game time I wouldn't be too harsh on him. I think he's fine and a very good bench option. That being said, if we get a decent offer I wouldn't be sad to see him go. 

Hopefully Newcastle want him. 

11 hours ago, Jangz said:

Yeah been very underwhelming for me too… too careless in possession .. this works if you are breaking stats records but is not assisting or scoring much either which makes it look even worse.

It also works if you bare minimum work your arse off for the good of the team like Timo does. The fans are more likely to get on your back if your just strolling about the place expecting everything to land at your feet.

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

It also works if you bare minimum work your arse off for the good of the team like Timo does. The fans are more likely to get on your back if your just strolling about the place expecting everything to land at your feet.

This is the crux of it.

All players are different and I don't expect every player to put in the sort of effort Werner & Mount do. But Ziyech has possibly the worst demeanor of any CFC player I have ever seen. CHO, RLC & Havertz are all a bit laid back and sometimes look that they aren't putting in 100% but Ziyech barely looks like he is giving 10%. 

As I've said before, if he had the sort of talent Hazard had, I wouldn't care, but he comes across as a player who thinks he's a lot better than he actually is and his half-arsed performances are not winning him any fans and I wouldn't be at all sorry if he was moved on in January.

 

That window where this chap and the 2 Germans were signed for a total combined fee of appx 150 mill quid was so full of promise, a striker who apparently couldn't stop scoring in Bundesliga, one of the most exciting young prospects in Europe and another flying Dutchman who looked  very lively vs us lot in the CL. Fast forward a season and one can see now that the rumour SFL fell out with the Board that same summer over transfers may have had some merit to it after all.

I'd offer all three of them to the barcodes, if Marina is lucky the club could even turn a profit on them, and all that dosh would buy Haaland. A player who its obvious for all to see is a Proper upcoming world-class Talent.

 

17 hours ago, Deino said:

Is this his ceiling? 

Going forward, we shouldn't buy players who thrive in a set of system. All the players from Ajax of that season have all been meh just like the players from that Monaco team has been. 

 

Pretty sure he was expecting to play in a 4-3-3 for Lampard after having personal conversations with him before coming and that system he's used to from all the years playing in Ajax.

It's maybe also a reason why Lampard wanted him as well. I saw somewhere online a rumor that we might be interested in De Ligt who joined Juventus right at the time when their decline started, I still think he can end up being a top player for example, he's only 22.

As for Monaco, B.Silva ended up as a top player for Man City and then the next year or so, Fabinho worked out well for Liverpool. Mbappe needs no mention.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Pretty sure he was expecting to play in a 4-3-3 for Lampard after having personal conversations with him before coming and that system he's used to from all the years playing in Ajax.

It's maybe also a reason why Lampard wanted him as well. I saw somewhere online a rumor that we might be interested in De Ligt who joined Juventus right at the time when their decline started, I still think he can end up being a top player for example, he's only 22.

As for Monaco, B.Silva ended up as a top player for Man City and then the next year or so, Fabinho worked out well for Liverpool. Mbappe needs no mention.

And just like from the Monaco side we be bought the runt of the litter from Ajax

22 minutes ago, charierre said:

And just like from the Monaco side we be bought the runt of the litter from Ajax

I still see Ziyech as possibly being the best passer in our squad though. Just unlucky for him that he can't adapt to the system that Tuchel plays. Bakayoko though, not even the worst signing we made under Conte.

9 hours ago, Munkworth said:

It also works if you bare minimum work your arse off for the good of the team like Timo does. The fans are more likely to get on your back if your just strolling about the place expecting everything to land at your feet.

Yeah i guess Timo case in point - does get a longer leash.. But from what i have read about Ziyech he does have a strong character - lets see if he can turn this around.

Give him some more time, he hasn't even played 2 full seasons yet. The thing about Ziyech is he blows very hot and cold. When he's in form he looks like a top talent but, when he's not his limitations are clear to see. 

If his pre season form is anything to go by he can still string together some good performances. He's been unlucky in the sense that he gets into form and gets an injury pretty soon after. 

I'd reserve judgement until at least the end of the season he could still surprise a few on here. 

I'll end this by pointing out his passing is slowly starting to create high volume chances again. He played a part in the final goal for Mount's 3rd. He got an assist vs Southampton and played another good pass that Kai should have done better with since it was 1v1.

If Tuchel plays him he's clearly offering something in training, there's no gifts in this team. Game time is earned on merit.

6 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Give him some more time, he hasn't even played 2 full seasons yet. The thing about Ziyech is he blows very hot and cold. When he's in form he looks like a top talent but, when he's not his limitations are clear to see. 

If his pre season form is anything to go by he can still string together some good performances. He's been unlucky in the sense that he gets into form and gets an injury pretty soon after. 

I'd reserve judgement until at least the end of the season he could still surprise a few on here. 

I'll end this by pointing out his passing is slowly starting to create high volume chances again. He played a part in the final goal for Mount's 3rd. He got an assist vs Southampton and played another good pass that Kai should have done better with since it was 1v1.

If Tuchel plays him he's clearly offering something in training, there's no gifts in this team. Game time is earned on merit.

As I said previously, he was the signing I had the most excitement about. He does occasionally make a good pass but more often or not he is careless in possession with the easy stuff. The fact that you can recall a pass that was good suggests he really isn't doing it enough, no coincidence that he was hooked again when we were chasing a game against a second string Southampton. The demeanour he portrays overall on the pitch is of a player who can't be bothered with the simple stuff, working hard etc. He may or may not come good , I suspect though he will always be inconsistent and flatter to deceive.

Just ship him to Newcastle and get our money back. I just don't see the point of him right now, even the likes of CHO and Havertz has good game once in a while, Ziyech just does nothing. If the problem is indeed he doesn't fit the system, obvious choice is sacrifice 1 player instead of the system.

1 hour ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Just ship him to Newcastle and get our money back. I just don't see the point of him right now, even the likes of CHO and Havertz has good game once in a while, Ziyech just does nothing. If the problem is indeed he doesn't fit the system, obvious choice is sacrifice 1 player instead of the system.

Then I will get accused by Ajax supporters for being personally responsible for Chelsea chasing out Ziyech, instead of being personally responsible for his limited playing time (as I am now  ). 

I actually find having players like Ziyetch in the squad  both interesting and in someways beneficial. But it is a very expensive luxury 

He clearly has a huge talent, his corner Wednesday was sublime when we have a decade of Chelsea hero’s who fail to clear the first man, I include Lampard and Mount in that list ! (I’ll wash my mouth out with soup later) 

There was a very short period I want to say around 6 games under Frank that he was unbelievable, I genuinely thought we had a new superstar on our hands 

…..and, even when under TT he scored and provided some crucial goals toward the end of the season.

However on balance, if he is never going to be a regular under TT we need to cash in now. 
 

i personally think he will be a superstar in say Serie A ? 

 

 

Guy is so frustrating.

Only ever smiles when he is doing something wrong, so annoying..

I will be smiling when we sell him in the summer